Late night mess at NBC... Latest: Conan's new show (reply #250)

[Flood Pants]

I love Conan. He's the most clever man on late night network TV by far. And he deserves a chance to continue on the Tonight Show.

 

However, I remember thinking when the Conan/Leno deal was first announced a couple years ago that Conan wasn't the right fit for the Tonight Show. Carson and Leno kind of had this "guy we can relate to, down to earth" thing going, while Conan had a puppet dog who smoked a cigar and swore at everyone. The difference between Conan's show and the Tonight Show, in any incarnation, was huge. Conan is still as funny as ever, but I'm not surprised that he's not catching on as Tonight Show host.

 

Granted, more time and people could get used to him in that role.

[DougJones43]

Again, I do not understand any discussion of Leno's wrongdoing...his

choices were to leave or go back to 10:35. He decided to go back to his

old time slot.

Because it's a douche move. He pulled a Favre.

Right. Leno's willingness to take the job back put Conan under even more pressure and basically was the nail in the coffin. If they didn't have Leno to snatch the job back, would they be so quick to push Conan out? I doubt it. If you can't see that swooping in and taking something from your "friend" and fellow comedian is douchey, then I certainly wouldn't want you as a friend.

 

And it would be more understandable if this were maybe 2 years down the road and Conan still wasn't pulling decent ratings. A change would be easier to swallow and understand. They didn't even give him a chance. NBC is panicking because they feel they NEED to win this timeslot RIGHT NOW. Unfortunately, just sticking Leno back on the Tonight Show isn't going to work that way. Like a previous poster said, sometimes you can't go home again and have everything be like it was. Everything's changed.

[bucks2281]

Conan was getting about half the viewers that Leno did, long before all the press of late. NBC's choice was obvious, once they gave into the affiliates and ended the Leno at 9 experiment.

 

Leno only started beating Letterman in the ratings after the Hugh Grant appearance. And, that was a couple of years into Leno's run. As mentioned before, Leno's dismal ratings certainly have an affect on Conan. Nobody's watching Leno's show, so fewer viewers are sticking around for the local news, and then for Conan. Before Leno's show began, Conan's show aired during the summer months when he was first getting his bearings and fewer people are watching TV anyways. Conan's show began June 1 -- this decision was made only seven months later. He was not given a chance. I don't think NBC's choice was "obvious" -- we can't be sure if viewers will return to Leno or if a portion will refuse to watch his show based on what's happened. Plus, ratings aside, Jeff Zucker and his braintrust have stained the reputation of one of TV's most famous series -- and now, they have no protege when Leno decides he wants to retire.

 

For now, I'm enjoying watching NBC circle the toilet. Leno at 10 was one of the dumbest ideas in television history, and I suspect that decision will continue to haunt them.

[endaround]

Leno is only around because opf his insane contract that NBC gave him in order to provide a prime time program. "It's cheap compared to scripted shows!" And that's why he isn't going anywhere, not due to Conan's ratings but due to a contract that NBC locked themselves into. Again. See Donald Trump and his insane contract signed right when the Apprentice was dying.

[RobertR]

Frankly, I think it's Leno's creative bankruptcy that's at the root of the problem. Doing something different in primetime isn't necessarily a bad idea, but blatantly recycling The Tonight Show in primetime and competing for guests with Conan is at the heart of the problem. Basically, Leno made sure that if he failed, Conan would fail too.

 

There are plenty of people that could have done something original and interesting with the platform that Jay Leno got. Conan O'Brien for one. I'm sure Steve Allen could have made something of it too back in the day. Leno basically rode his one act into the ground and dragged everyone around him down with him. And he's getting rewarded for it.

 

Robert

[owbc]

One appearance does not equal 10 years of dominating late night. Leno got somewhat of a raw deal to begin with--he was prematurely forced out of the Tonight Show, and it wasn't because of bad ratings. I agree that Conan is getting completely screwed now--but the root of the problem is NBC's incompetence, not Jay Leno.

 

I predict that Leno will go back to beating Letterman like he did before. Although we seem to have a few Leno supporters around here, the majority of his audience does not post on online message boards and does not watch Conan.

 

For the record, when I do watch late night, I used to watch the Colbert Report at 10:30 and then Conan at 11:30. Now, I still watch the Colbert Report and then I watch Craig Ferguson at 11:30. Conan lost me (and I suspect some other viewers) because he is competing against Stephen Colbert. I wish Conan would have taken the offer to start at 11:00 CT, because I would have watched him more. If he moves to 10:30 on Fox, I will continue to watch Colbert instead.

[strawbossisevil]

I could see this being a very bad thing for NBC (and its ratings) if Conan catches on somewhere else though. For example, if Fox picks him up right away for the same time slot as Jay. Since polls show it being split down the middle, he could theoretically lose half his audience to Conan.

 

If I was Conan, and was looking to screw over Jay, that's exactly what I'd do too. Compete against him and drag his ratings down with you.

[TooLiveBrew]

Leno got somewhat of a raw deal to begin with--he was prematurely forced out of the Tonight Show, and it wasn't because of bad ratings.

 

As best I understand this, Leno agreed to hand off the show to Conan 5 years ago... and this was written into Conan's contract with NBC. Do I have the facts wrong?

 

 

I predict that Leno will go back to beating Letterman like he did before.

 

I predict the opposite. I think Letterman will pick up all the alienated Conan fans, unless like Strawboss mentioned, Fox picks up Conan... which imo would be just an awesome move for both sides.

[bucks2281]

IIRC, NBC "forced" Leno to a five-year timetable because Conan was receiving offers from other networks, and they didn't want to lose him. And now, look at what's happened.

[Katuluu]

How's this for irony?

 

In 1992, faced with declining ratings and Letterman threatening to move to CBS, Leno said he'd leave NBC if they moved his show to 12:30 or gave it to someone else.

[brewers19]

How things have changed in five years...

 

[adamb100]

Funny how he doesnt want to see fighting over the show yet here we are. :P

[RockCoCougars]

I predict that Leno will go back to beating Letterman like he did before.

 

I predict the opposite. I think Letterman will pick up all the alienated Conan fans, unless like Strawboss mentioned, Fox picks up Conan... which imo would be just an awesome move for both sides.

I agree. In my view, Letterman has always had a funnier show than Leno. Letterman should have been hosting the Tonight Show after Carson retired anyways. Leno is a douche, with unfunny, recycled monologues and bits and 100% scripted interviews where he absolutely kisses the guest's rear. Bottom line, I'd love to see Leno's ratings absolutely tank after this. It will be even funnier for NBC when this happens after the Olympic ratings are through the floor.

[GAME05]

it sounds like NBC still has some leverage at the bargaining table with Conan, that they could still potentially hold him to his 2.5 year contract, plus another year. he'd be pretty well forgotten if he had to stay off TV for that long.

 

maybe this is all a blessing in disguise for Conan. he'd really softened up his comedy to appeal to the older Tonight Show viewers, but he won't have to on any other network. this way, maybe he won't suffer the same fate Leno did--that is, a good comedian who sells out and dumbs down his act in order to get the largest audience possible.

[BrewCrewForever]

Looking forward to see what Conan has in store for what is supposed to be his last week as host of "Tonight Show". Should be must see TV.

[TooLiveBrew]

I need to see some Masturbating Bear in that timeslot. That would be fantastic.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Seth Meyers' analogy:

 

 

[NastyTwig]

I have a feeling that this is not far off from the real "Head of East Coast Television and Microwave Oven Programming"...

 

http://danielstrauss.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/jack-donaghy1.jpg

[bullox]

I used to watch Conan nightly about 10 years ago, things happened and I didn't get a chance to see him for a while. Ever since he got the Tonight Show, I picked it back up and I have seen every single show via Hulu. Although Hulu is great due to the fact that you can watch it whenever you want, (Timeslots? Psshhh) the problem is that Hulu views don't count for ratings. I am not saying that Hulu is the reason that Conan's ratings are down 47% to Leno in his last year, but also you have to look at Leno's first seven months on the job to have a more clear picture. Since times were so different and there were less overall viewers then than there are now, its really not possible to get a clear comparison ratings wise. The only way to do that would be if they were competing on separate networks during the same slot, which may actually happen soon although unlikely.

 

I am really disgusted with the whole ordeal. NBC and Leno are really the villains here. Bias or not, Conan got a raw deal here.

[BrewCrewForever]

That bit by Seth Meyers was awesome. Loved it.

[GAME05]

in many respects, i don't see how Leno is the villain in this. he was pushed out of the Tonight Show by NBC. when he decided he wanted to keep working (no surprise), NBC gave him a different show. so now, when he's offered an 11:30 timeslot, is he supposed to turn that down out of respect for Conan? "No, I'll just be unemployed." ???

 

the only thing that's bugging me about Leno right now is that he's participating in all the jokes about NBC and the whole situation. Conan gets the shaft and Leno comes out the big winner, so it's a little classless to be making jokes about it.

[bullox]

in many respects, i don't see how Leno is the villain in this. he was pushed out of the Tonight Show by NBC. when he decided he wanted to keep working (no surprise), NBC gave him a different show. so now, when he's offered an 11:30 timeslot, is he supposed to turn that down out of respect for Conan? "No, I'll just be unemployed." ???

The way I see it - Leno's show was the one getting canceled, not Conan's. Now Conan is the one without a show. How does that make sense?

 

Just horrible management in my opinion.

[Patrick425]

GAME05[/b]]maybe this is all a blessing in disguise for Conan. he'd really softened up his comedy to appeal to the older Tonight Show viewers, but he won't have to on any other network. this way, maybe he won't suffer the same fate Leno did--that is, a good comedian who sells out and dumbs down his act in order to get the largest audience possible.

I saw Jay Leno live back in the mid 80's before he "dumbed down" his act. He actually did a gig at UWM in the cafeteria (this was a few years before they built the "food court" that is there now). I wish I could remember the name of the room that UWM used as the cafeteria. I think tickets were something like $6 a piece or something like that and he didn't really draw a huge crowd. He was somewhat of an unkown at the time (I don't remember the exact year..sometime between 85 and 88). I do remember it being a pretty funny show though.

[craigharmann]

I don't understand why Leno keeps saying he was fired? Didn't he plan on retiring years ago? He's trying to make himself sound wronged.

 

Now he's explained it all on his show. Again, making himself sound like he didn't do anything wrong.

[adamb100]

Cause Leno pulled a Brett Favre and changed his mind and decided to keep working.