McGwire admits steroid use

[TooLiveBrew]

And I think that's why there's so much animosity from the sportswriters. Imo they feel equal parts foolish & 'betrayed' somehow. It makes them look bad for just eating it all up without asking any questions... or just looking the other way when the culture of PED abuse was very possibly visible to them, given clubhouse access.

[nate82]

There is no asterisk behind the 1919 World Series and there should be no asterisks behind Bonds, McGwire, or Sosa's numbers or any other player who used PED's. There is also no asterisk behind Pete Rose's numbers. People will remember that the era was tainted no need to put an asterisk behind some numbers that can or could be passed by someone else. The record books are the record books and history will show us what really happened there is no need for any asterisk behind those numbers.

[RockCoCougars]

If Canseco says he's lying, I believe it 100%. I know a lot of people don't like Canseco, but he's been proven as the most honest person in this whole mess, and in my opinion he's done as much as anybody to clean up the game.

[homer]

If McGwire only used it for injuries then why was he so emotional during the interview with Costas? I would think if he just took them for recovery reasons he wouldn't be so tearful. I think he knows he's a fraud and it's eating away at him.

[Invader3K]

Well, that is the contradiction. If he only used them to recover from injuries, why did he feel the need to apologize to Roger Maris' family?

 

And yeah, as far as Canseco, he gets a lot of credit for helping to kick start MLB's "clean up" of this mess, and deservedly so.

[endaround]

Actually what started it was the fact that the sports media hated Bonds.

 

Also Selig almoste certainly knew by 1993/1994 of McGwire's steroid use:

 

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/mlb_knew_of_mcgwires_steroid_use_in_1993/

[Invader3K]

Actually what started it was the fact that the sports media hated Bonds.

 

Also Selig almoste certainly knew by 1993/1994 of McGwire's steroid use:

 

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/mlb_knew_of_mcgwires_steroid_use_in_1993/

And he tried to do something about it in general, but the players union stood in the way, as usual.

[endaround]

Yes having a huge on field ceremony for McGwire really meant that he was worried about it. Selig never cared and only ended up caring because of media pressure.

[sheethead]

If you think Selig never cared about MLB players using steroids, then you obviously don't know much about Bud Selig.

[joepepsi]

I was commending Mark on admitting steroid use, but after seeing the interview he gave it's sad that he is still lying about what the steroids did for him.

 

He admits to 'performance enhancing' drugs and apologizes to Roger Maris' family but expects us to believe that his homerun totals would be the same had he not used steroids!?! When will these players learn that it's just easier to admit the truth then to continue to get caught in their own lies.

He's still hoping for the HoF. If he or any other player were to admit, "hell yes I hit all them homers 'cause of the drugs", that'd kill their chances once and for all. Canseco can tell the truth because he probably would not have been elected to the Hall anyway.

[MJLiverock]

To me the hall of fame represents a museum and list of the greatest players of each generation. Since I really started following baseball in the early to mid 80's, pretty much all of my favorite players from the time I was 12 on to now have been subjected to the steroid scope and the whole era is full of tainted players. I am fine with just voting in the players regardless of steroids or not since pretty much everyone should be suspected, pitchers, hitters, skinny guys, hulks, superstars, scrubs, it doesn't matter, all types of players used. Putting McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, etc, in the hall doesn't make me think less of Hank Aaron, he played in a different era and was a great player. The greats of the 80's, 90's 00's that dominated the sport are also great players. Maybe raise the standard a bit like say just 500 HR's isn't automatic for that era but still acknowledge the best players of the era. There have been all sorts of different eras of baseball from dead balls, to higher mounds, to lowered mounds, DH's, big ball parks, etc. This will be the steroid era but Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc. still dominated their era. Guys like John Kruk who claim to be clean weren't going to make the hall anyway so it isn't like they are being kept out by steroids. My point ends up being just put in the best of the era, call it the steroid era, and move on the next generation of stars.

[joepepsi]

You're making sense there, MJLive. Let me add I think some players' chances are hurt by playing in the steroid era. Fred McGriff hit 500+ homers, had a very similar career to my favorite player of all time, Eddie Murray, but will probably not get in. Most seem to think the Crime Dog was good, but not great when compared to his contemporaries. But his contemporaries may have artificially high numbers due their drug use. So if they get in it means cheaters win, while guys like McGriff who may have been on the straight and narrow, end up losing.

[mletto157]

Come on Mark, there's no crying in baseball.

[MattFlair]

You're making sense there, MJLive. Let me add I think some players' chances are hurt by playing in the steroid era. Fred McGriff hit 500+ homers, had a very similar career to my favorite player of all time, Eddie Murray, but will probably not get in. Most seem to think the Crime Dog was good, but not great when compared to his contemporaries. But his contemporaries may have artificially high numbers due their drug use. So if they get in it means cheaters win, while guys like McGriff who may have been on the straight and narrow, end up losing.

 

+1 I agree 100%, the worst part is the folks who look average-ish compared to their contemporaries but were actually clean and should have been among the best of the era.

[BREWERPRIDE]

Come on Mark, there's no crying in baseball.

Haha I just saw that, Hilarious. I love Conseco. Mark Mcgwire is such a loser. He thinks NOTHING is his fault and he thinks that he was GOD before he took steroids. No Mark you are trash just go away. Ugh he makes me mad.

[pitchleague]

I have no problem putting McGwire, Bonds, ARod, Clemens, et. al into the Hall of Fame since the Hall of Fame is full of cheaters and other "losers" as it is. Spitballers, racists, bigots, cheapskate owners, alcoholics, womanizers. You name it, you can probably find it in the Hall of Fame.

 

When I visited the Hall of Fame 10 years ago, I read every plaque word-for-word. Every plaque is made out to sound like they are God's gift to the game of baseball.

 

I was so naive, though. When I got home, I began to do some research on the subject for a paper in college. The more I read about some of these players that I knew little about (the 1800s guys up to about 1920) the more I found out that some of them were just terrible people.

 

Of course, just about a full century has passed since they played and since there are no more first person looks at these guys anymore, they are classified as saints--all is forgiven and forgotten.

 

Not by me. I'm looking forward to visiting the Hall of Fame again someday and at least flipping off some of the plaques.

 

So, for those guys like Clemens and Bonds and McGwire, of course I don't want them to get into the Hall of Fame. But they might as well since the precedent has been set by previous generations. And if someone were to say that things should change then they should probably excommunicate some of these "cheaters" (for lack of a better word) from from the Hall.

[sveumrules]

I have no problem putting McGwire, Bonds, ARod, Clemens, et. al into the Hall of Fame since the Hall of Fame is full of cheaters and other "losers" as it is. Spitballers, racists, bigots, cheapskate owners, alcoholics, womanizers. You name it, you can probably find it in the Hall of Fame.

 

Of all the things you listed only one, spitballing, gives a player an unfair competitive advantage. And i would hardly say the effects are as drastic as steroids. It's not like Niekro was putting up 5 ERAs and then all of a sudden started roughing up balls and popping sub 2 ERAs or anything like that. I guess you could also argue that barring Negroes from the league gave players an unfair advantage but that was the owners' decision, not the players'.

 

Ultimately the steroids era is just like any other era in baseball history. It presents a unique set of circumstances and the players who played during that time will have to be held up to one another for comparison's sake. I for one look forward to someday having to explain to any potential children i may sire why Bonds, Sosa, McGwire and Clemens aren't in the hall despite their record breaking achievements.

[bork]

Molitor sums it up pretty well.

 

Link

[Flood Pants]

Is it possible that McGwire breaking the homerun record after taking steroids was merely a coincidence. Similar to coming down with the flu after getting the vaccine. Doesn't mean that the vaccine gave you the flu...

 

There's no way to know, but interesting to think about. Maybe McGwire would have broken that record steiroids or not. His hitting talent was much more than pure muscle.

[snyttri]

I thought this was an interesting view of MLB's role in PED use.

 

?Selig, however, also permitted Mitchell to "expand the investigation and to follow the evidence wherever it may lead," if he felt it necessary to do so. Mitchell took Selig's opening and ran with it, producing a report that focused on MLB's historical indifference to the pervasiveness of illegal performance enhancing drugs in its locker rooms, and one which went well beyond Selig's 2002 start date, generating a treatise that, in the end, most likely gave Selig and MLB much more than they had bargained for.

 

In its pages, the Mitchell Report destroyed the myth that Selig and MLB had perpetrated for years: the myth that MLB's signing of the 2002 collective bargaining agreement along with the Major League Baseball Players Association (the "Players Association") somehow rendered 2002 a starting point in the discussion of illegal drug use within the game. By destroying that myth, the Mitchell Report invariably shifted the focus of the blame for baseball's steroid crisis from "rogue" players such as Barry Bonds, Miguel Tejada and the others mentioned within the Report, to MLB itself.?

 

[BREWERPRIDE]

I have no problem putting McGwire, Bonds, ARod, Clemens, et. al into the Hall of Fame since the Hall of Fame is full of cheaters and other "losers" as it is. Spitballers, racists, bigots, cheapskate owners, alcoholics, womanizers. You name it, you can probably find it in the Hall of Fame.

 

When I visited the Hall of Fame 10 years ago, I read every plaque word-for-word. Every plaque is made out to sound like they are God's gift to the game of baseball.

 

I was so naive, though. When I got home, I began to do some research on the subject for a paper in college. The more I read about some of these players that I knew little about (the 1800s guys up to about 1920) the more I found out that some of them were just terrible people.

 

Of course, just about a full century has passed since they played and since there are no more first person looks at these guys anymore, they are classified as saints--all is forgiven and forgotten.

 

Not by me. I'm looking forward to visiting the Hall of Fame again someday and at least flipping off some of the plaques.

 

So, for those guys like Clemens and Bonds and McGwire, of course I don't want them to get into the Hall of Fame. But they might as well since the precedent has been set by previous generations. And if someone were to say that things should change then they should probably excommunicate some of these "cheaters" (for lack of a better word) from from the Hall.

The Hall of Fame is not about the person someone is, its about the numbers you put up in the game. Nothing you named except spitballing gives you an advantage, why do people keep referring to drunks, womanizers, etc.??

[dlk9s]

Of all the things you listed only one, spitballing, gives a player an unfair competitive advantage. And i would hardly say the effects are as drastic as steroids. It's not like Niekro was putting up 5 ERAs and then all of a sudden started roughing up balls and popping sub 2 ERAs or anything like that.

Niekro was a knuckleballer. Gaylord Perry was a spitballer.

 

For some reason, I actually find Perry's blatant cheating entertaining. It was like a cat and mouse game. Everyone knew he threw spitballs and he knew everyone knew. He had to figure out how to do it without getting caught. Plus, he got into batters' heads even when he wasn't doctoring the ball. I don't know, I think it's pretty funny.

[dlk9s]

Didn't read much of the comments here. So if I repeat, my bad.

 

It's sickening that this isn't a bigger deal with the Cardinal fans. They claim to be the holders of the tradition of baseball and get all upset when players untuck their shirts, yet when one of their greatest cops to *cheating* and committing multiple felonies, they turn a blind eye. It's fine to do roids, only if your shirt is tucked in (Difficult since you inject into fat in the butt).

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4834393

 

"Mark McGwire received a standing ovation from Cardinals fans Sunday in his first public appearance in St. Louis since admitting he used steroids."

 

Jessica and Sarah Schaaf were in the front row of a downtown hotel ballroom jammed with perhaps 1,000 fans, and wore T-shirts made for the occasion that said "Welcome back, Big Mac Land," with a photograph of McGwire. 'He did wrong,' Jessica Schaaf said. 'But we still love him.'"

[TooLiveBrew]

Spaceman Bill Lee had some pretty candid comments regarding McGwire's situation & the whole PED abuse uproar.

 

Link

 

I personally agree with his take that this round of juicing was no different, conceptually, from the widespread use of greenies (for example).

[bbrauch2000]

I really enjoyed hearing Robin Yount's take on the entire situation and found it to be a much more honest statement than most of the guys in the HOF that have been so outspoken.

 

http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/genemueller/82345207.html