liriano maybe available?

[sveumrules]

Have seen some rumblings that Minnesota might be interested in moving Liriano. If he ends up getting moved for a not so impressive return it'll be kind of disappointing that Melvin couldn't have gotten creative and gotten him in with the Hardy deal by adding something on our end. Seems like a prime example of the risk/reward type guy we should be targeting, especially coming to the NL.

[804Sox]

I think liriano's cooked, which is disappointing in it's own right. Beofre his injury he was probably the most exciting pitcher to watch. Must see tv. Just a shame that, like with Prior, baseball fans missed out on the opportunity to watch a guy who was all-time great at his peak.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

I, too, believe Liriano is toast.

[davego]

I saw a game at the Dome in '07 I believe where Jeff Cirillo got the only 2 hits Liriano gave up the entire game. He was throwing a screwball at about 92 MPH. It was crazy.

[sveumrules]

i'm not saying i expect liriano to bounce back to his prime numbers, but he seems highly capable of putting up a 4.50ish ERA in the NL which certainly has some value.

[alwz4gbp]

As a Brewer fan that lives too close to MN, my opinion is that Liriano is nothing but a reliever from this point forward. I, like most was blown away when they brought him up but after his arm exploded, hes just not a starter anymore. That being said, he may still be able to sparkle as a set up/ short relief guy. I think most people still expect/want him to be what he was and he just isn't.

[JohnBriggs12]

Liriano is not "toast". If he was, the Twins wouldn't have offered him arby in December. No way can he be compared with Prior. Prior hasn't been able to break a pane of glass since 2005 and hasn't pitched anywhere since May of 06. It's also too soon to give up on him as a starter. As recently as August 12th, he went 7 innings allowing 3 hits and 8 K's against KC. That game he was hitting 92 and 85 with his fastball and slider respectively in the 7th inning.

 

The Twins still need infield help. They have 9 pitchers that started at least 5 games last year and are still looking for another veteran. They don't want to deal pre arby guys and can't deal a stiff like Perkins, so that's why Liriano's a likely guy. He indeed may never be the guy he looked like earlier, but he's far from toast.

 

I don't know if the Brewers have a match, but I'd take him for the right price.

[nate82]

I don't think Liriano is done I think he is just starting to get back into form. He was throwing his fastball higher than he was in 2008 and he regained a lot of speed on his slider once again along with his change up. I would expect Liriano to continue to improve and he is a candidate for a comeback player of the year in 2010. He won't be the old Liriano that broke onto the scene in 2006 but he should be throwing in the low to mid 90's once again. It looks as though he is just starting to come back fully healthy from his injury in 2007.

 

Season	Team	FB	SL	CT	CB	CH	SF	KN	XX	PO
Total *	- - -	51.3% (92.3)	30.6% (86.2)	0.0% (87.5)		18.1% (83.6)			3.1%
2005	Twins	47.9% (94.8)	36.0% (87.1)			16.1% (84.6)			21.4%
2006	Twins	43.6% (94.7)	37.6% (87.7)	0.1% (87.5)		18.7% (83.5)			2.0%
2008	Twins	53.6% (90.9)	26.4% (83.7)			20.0% (82.0)			2.2%
2009	Twins	56.3% (91.7)	26.7% (86.2)			16.9% (84.7)			1.6%

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Liriano is not "toast". If he was, the Twins wouldn't have offered him arby in December. . He indeed may never be the guy he looked like earlier, but he's far from toast.

 

Well of course the Twins are going to offer arby. They'd be stupid if they didn't. Worst case scenario, he flames out while getting next to nothing. The Twins are exploring all options they have to find a fifth starter. Could he could back and be effective? Sure, but it's far from a sure thing like you imply that he'd be effective. He had a 5.80 ERA last year with a K:BB ratio less than 2:1. I think he improves, but he still has a ways to go to be effective.

[southpaw121505]

I saw a game at the Dome in '07 I believe where Jeff Cirillo got the only 2 hits Liriano gave up the entire game. He was throwing a screwball at about 92 MPH. It was crazy.

Probably a sick 2 seamer, still crazy how much they can move though.

[804Sox]

No way can he be compared with Prior. Prior hasn't been able to break a pane of glass since 2005 and hasn't pitched anywhere since May of 06.

I was only comparing Liriano to Prior in that both were hall of fame talents whose injuries robbed baseball fans of the opportunity to see greatness on the mound. Liriano in 06 was the most exciting thing to watch in sports. Like vintage Pedro, or Santana in his prime.

 

I agree that Liriano has value, and can be an average-below average NL starter or bullpen pitcher. Problem is, his command sucks right now (I guess that's the last thing to return after injury, though), and I don't think he'll regain the velo he needs to set up the beautiful CU. I also haven't looked closely to see if he's made any changes to his mechanics. Like Santana, a big part of his success was nearly identical arm action with the FB and CU that made him ridiculously deceptive.

[superbraun]

If i am reading this correctly, he seemed like he pitched pretty well during winter ball. i know that this really isn't too much of a sample and it is NOT facing major leaguers, but still seems like it was okay.

 

If you look at 2009 winter league stats, it doesn't look too bad.

 

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=434538

 

17 Ks, 2 ER, and only 2 BB in 11.2 innings. Again, not against MLB players, but something to ponder.

[dadofandrew]

The Brewers really do not have anywhere to hide him, though he may still have options. He'd be a perfect target for the Royals, Pirates, Padres, etc.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

The problem with Liriano last year was that even though he threw his fastball harder, it was hit real hard. He rebounded well in 2008, but regressed in 2009. I think in terms of 'toast' he will struggle to be effective. Perhaps toast was a poor way to describe him. Here's an article on Liriano and mentions the fastball:

 

'It's not hard to see what happened to Liriano that caused him to falter so badly: his fastball, which has never been his best pitch, fell from 3.6 runs below average to a shockingly bad 25.6 runs below average despite rising in velocity from an average of 90.9 MPH in 2008 to 91.7 in 2009. Not only did the pitch get worse, he threw it more often, making an already bad situation even worse.'

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/317650-a-study-in-patience-francisco-liriano

[MNBrew]

The steady talk up here in MN as the season progressed was that Liriano lost confidence in his fastball, and as a result he didn't use it as often. They wanted him throwing it more. But he didn't. And because of that difference in confidence, sure, he worked hard to throw it harder, which result he did get, but it was also far straighter and far more hittable. Also, because he'd lost his confidence in his fastball, he also lost his command of it. The inevitable result was a terrible season -- kinda like the MN version of Manny Parra.

 

Sorry, no link or documentation. Just months of watching/listening to Twins games and lots of listening to KFAN.

[logan82]

Wasn't this the guy who had his agent make a big stink abut him still being in the minors part way through the year?

[trwi7]

That was Glen Perkins.

[Oldcity]

Liriano did that a few years ago, and he probably had a case. He was carving up AAA and the Twins just wanted to wait to make sure he wasn't a Super 2.

[yoyomayoma]

Francisco Liriano has been impressive so far in winter ball.

"I just got a report that he's throwing the living fire out of the ball down in the Dominican (Republic)," said Twins manager Ron Gardenhire. "He threw eight innings the other day, and his fastball was 92 to 94 (mph) and his slider was filthy. That's a really good thing, because he can be the bonus if we can get him on track." A healthy Liriano would fit beautifully behind Nick Blackburn, Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey and Carl Pavano in the Twins' starting rotation.

 

I am still among the skeptics on this guy. He looked terrible last year. Hopefully he gets his stuff back but I certainly wouldn't count on it.

[yoshii8]

I'd love to see the Brewers take a chance on Liriano, but I think the Twins are really hoping that he comes close to what he was his rookie season. Also, judging by Gardenhires comment, it seems as though they are not as down on him as reported, and it might take more than people think to get him.