Where would you draw the line with Soriano?

[JJHardy7]

No way Soriano would ever play in Milwaukee unless we paid him the most and made the most promises. Eventually the Brewers are going to have to make a splash to be considered a destination for other free agents. Think about the other Milwaukee team (the only one in the state that made the playoffs last year):

1. Mo Williams

2. Michael Redd

3. Bobby Simmons

4. Charlie Villanueva

5. Andrew Bogut

 

We signed one cheap and totally overpaid for the other. Drafted two and traded a draft pick for the other. It's not easy getting athletes to play in Milwaukee when it comes to the top free agents.

[Team Canada]

the only one in the state that made the playoffs last year

 

You have to try hard NOT to make the playoffs in the NBA.

[bucksman4]

You have to try hard NOT to make the playoffs in the NBA.

 

That's not a good way of looking at it. It's a disgrace to the city of Milwaukee to go two decades plus without a playoff appearance. Make the moves to get it done....now!

[mothershipconnection]

You have to try hard NOT to make the playoffs in the NBA.

 

That's not a good way of looking at it.

Why isn't it? Way more teams make the playoffs. Now, a conference finals trip is almost the same as a league championship trip and a title is a title.

[bucksman4]

Playoffs are playoffs.

 

It's disheartening to see people comparing apples and oranges to try and justify the horrendous mediocrity this city has endured from this notoriously horrible franchise over the last 20+ seasons. To not even make one playoff appearance in that time is frankly embarrassing when you sit back and really think about it.

 

Stop trying to defend this team...it's about time we deserved a winner...it's only about 15-20 years late. I worked for the Milwaukee Bucks for 3 years (98-01). All three years we made the playoffs and my last season, we made it to the conference finals. Now that's what I call a competitive team...they weren't just scraping by to get an 8 spot. Herb actually spends some money.

[sbrylski]

It's disheartening to see people comparing apples and oranges

 

Isn't that what you are doing when comparing a playoffs where 50% of the teams make it verse a playoffs where 25% of the teams make it?

[Team Canada]

bucksman, you're completely missing the point (as sylbriski pointed out). I'm *not* defending the Brewers, I'm just saying "well the Bucks were able to make the playoffs!" is a complete non sequitur.

[rluzinski]

Stop trying to defend this team...it's about time we deserved a winner...it's only about 15-20 years late.

 

It seems like no matter what the topic of a thread is, you end up inserting an emotional rant about what we "deserve" as fans. It has nothing to do with the topic.

[bucksman4]

I'm sorry I can't stay on topic as well as you can rluzinski. No matter what I say, valid or not, you'll jump all over it anyways. You'd think I was talkin about your mom or something.

[brettac1]

Why do fans "deserve" anything? It's not like it's some extremely difficult job to be a fan of a team, or that you are required to be one.

 

I honestly hope that the fans are the very last thing on Doug Melvin's mind when he makes a move.

[sbrylski]

I honestly hope that the fans are the very last thing on Doug Melvin's mind when he makes a move.

 

I would say Melvin is just a fan with control. All fans want to see their team win, be competitive, make the playoffs, ect. So does Melvin, and he's working to get the team there.

[mothershipconnection]

Playoffs are playoffs.

No, they aren't. Seriously, you can routinely make the NBA playoffs with a sub-.500 record because half of the teams get it. It just isn't the same thing. It'd be like two people graduating in the top 100 in their class. However, one class is only 200 people while the other is 400. The former case is more braggable than the latter.

 

This isn't people trying to defend the Brewers, just pointing out that the playoffs are way harder to make in baseball than basketball.

 

Of course, you could compare the winning percentages of the Bucks and Brewers and then you may be on to something - as that's more of an apples to apples comparison.

[bucksman4]

Valid points mothership....

 

The point is, there is no defense for the Brewers woes. It was many years of mismanagement and lying to fans in getting their hopes up that "the future is bright" when in actuality 1993-2004 was just a decade plus of futility and no real push toward anything beyond mediocrity. When you mention the team "Brewers" the public essentially said, "so? yeah, they suck!". They were a part of the league but never posed a threat to anyone nor ever built any real rivals because they sucked so badly that if anything, other teams would feel sorry for us, not dislike us in any way (because unless there's a threat posed, you typically don't dislike a team).

[geothite]

I would prefer Gary Matthews Jr. over Soriano because he is top flight defender.

I just think the notion that the OF can be the dumping ground for mediorcrity for the Milwaukee franchise needs to end.

You can prove that this guys OPS isn't better then Mench or that guys isn't better then Gross, but we all watch baseball games here. We all can see with our eyes that our OFs for the past few seasons have been subpar and mediocre.

Hart is a start and moving Hall out there is adding another piece but the centerpiece would be a major league CFer. Something we haven't had in Milwaukee for a long time.

[endaround]

Only you've seen that.

[mothershipconnection]

The point is, there is no defense for the Brewers woes. It was many years of mismanagement and lying to fans in getting their hopes up that "the future is bright" when in actuality 1993-2004 was just a decade plus of futility and no real push toward anything beyond mediocrity.

Absolutely. I will agree with anyone who says there is no excuse for the pre-Attanasio losing seasons. At least the team now has a budget somewhere near where it should be and doesn't make a bunch of crony hirings.

2006 is the first losing season in some time that is excuseable. They went out and got Koskie, they traded Overbay for a promising young MLB-ready pitcher, the brought Prince up, Hardy finished last season strong, as did Jenkins, Weeks was back and healthy, they had a great closer, they had Carlos Lee in left, etc. Then Murphy's Law came to the party and left Sheets, Ohka, Hardy, Weeks, and Koskie injured while Turnbow and Jenkins sucked. For once, the blame lies on the field instead of the front office.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I'm late to the party, but I'm just going to say one thing.

 

If Doug puts 25% of the payroll into one guy, he better be more than a career .835 OPS guy (with a pretty bad .325 OBP) who's already 30.

 

I like Soriano for what he is, but just like Carlos Lee, he is not a franchise player.

[mothershipconnection]

a career .835 OPS guy

What's the over/under for league-minimum earner Corey Hart? I'd say it's probably right around there. Hart also stole 31 bases last year in 2/3 of a season in AAA.

I'm not saying Hart will have a better year than Soriano per se, but that he's got a darn good shot at Soriano's career average OPS.

[DuWayne Steurer]

What's the over/under for league-minimum earner Corey Hart? I'd say it's probably right around there. Hart also stole 31 bases last year in 2/3 of a season in AAA.

I'm not saying Hart will have a better year than Soriano per se, but that he's got a darn good shot at Soriano's career average OPS.

 

 

I don't know what someone like BP or BA would rate Corey for this year, but my best guess is that he'll put up something like a .800-.825 OPS playing every day.

 

Soriano will probably put up .850 or better for a few more years, but his speed is going to start to decline (41 steals, caught 17 times) and this year was the first time he ever drew more than 40 walks. Batting in a better lineup (hypothetically in front of Hall, Fielder and such) I doubt he gets as many free passes.

[sheetswannabe]

The question is would u do 5/73, Because I guess thats what the Phillies offered and he likes it.

[sbrylski]

I'm hearing $80 over 6 from LAA per Rotoworld.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, actually the numbers are expected/feared to be much higher. The talk around the GM meetings is that Soriano may even pull down a deal similar to Beltran's from 2 seasons ago -- 7 yrs/ $120mil

 

I disagree that Soriano is not a franchise player. He scores a boatload of runs, drives in a boatload of runs, and is a legitimate HR threat every time he steps to the plate. Unfortunately, we cannot afford to "take the chances" as someone mentioned in this kind of situation. The Brewers cannot afford to spend $16-20 mil on one guy per year yet, that's just an economic fact.

 

We can take risks with guys like Roberts or Suppan, not the top-end -- we just don't generate that kind of capital. If we want to be able to nab guys like that, we just have to keep pushing through those Miller Park gates for the next 5 years like we have been for the past 3!

[splitterpfj]

LA Times reports the Dodgers have offered 120M over seven years.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I would draw the line well below 8 years/135. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

 

 

I didn't want him, and I'm glad we didn't try.

[RyDogg66]

Quote:

---

He scores a boatload of runs, drives in a boatload of runs, and is a legitimate HR threat every time he steps to the plate. Unfortunately, we cannot afford to "take the chances" as someone mentioned in this kind of situation. The Brewers cannot afford to spend $16-20 mil on one guy per year yet, that's just an economic fact.

---

 

TooLiveBrew -

 

He scores a boatload of runs because other players drive him in. He drives in a boatload of runs because other guys are on base. It isnt that hard to figure out that those numbers are heavily dependant on the lineup and where you are batting.