Meltdown Bradley to SEA, Carlos Silva to CHN

[danzig6767]

I'm actually surprised the Cubs got so much for Bradley. I figured they would get a bad contract, or a few career minor leaguers, and still have to pay the majority of his salary. I can't believe the Mariners are paying $9mil.

They really are only paying 5 million because Silva was do to make 4 million more than Bradley.

 

I look at it this way. Silva was sunk cost as junk that Jack may have just eventually waived. If Bradley actually produces well though in Seattle, they get that production basically for free. If he implodes and acts like an asss, they can just waive him as the same sunk cost Silva was.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I don't think they'll make a serious effort to extend Lee. I think they'll focus on trying to extend King Felix. Younger and possibly better.

[bucksbeat]

Cliff Lee's side of the story seems to be he wanted to remain a Phillie for the rest of his career. Apparently the Phillies and Lee were working out a contract before the deal and on the day it was finalized Lee had sent his counteroffer to them.

 

On this particular trade, whether or not Bradley is a serviceable player, his negatives as a clubhouse cancer far outweighs any statistical production he may bring to the table. Any attempt to reign him in throughout his career has proven to be temporary.

[jackalope02ca]

I don't know how to link but he is trying to lock up Lee according to Rotoworld

 

According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, the Mariners have "keen interest in locking up" newly acquired left-hander Cliff Lee.

 

If he gets it done the deal is great for the Mariners.

[igor67]

The best thing the Cubs could do right now for this trade is to cut Silva. Then they can at least say they saved a couple of million on a guy they would have cut anyway. I can't imagine they would do that, because I have yet to see a team do that. On the other hand Jack dealt one of the most worthless players in baseball (and he did Betancourt earlier too) for a player who could actually produce something of value. He may yet get to the point where they can't keep him on the team, but I haven't seen any clear cut example where Bradely has sunk the team by being a difficult guy. He just wears out his welcome. Which means he doesn't have a negative value like some have suggested, particularly to a team that has the DH. For 5 million over two year the Mariners have potentially picked up a legitimate middle of the order bat. That's a pretty good risk to reward ratio.

[yount19.u]

I'm actually surprised the Cubs got so much for Bradley. I figured they would get a bad contract, or a few career minor leaguers, and still have to pay the majority of his salary. I can't believe the Mariners are paying $9mil.

They really are only paying 5 million because Silva was do to make 4 million more than Bradley.

 

I look at it this way. Silva was sunk cost as junk that Jack may have just eventually waived. If Bradley actually produces well though in Seattle, they get that production basically for free. If he implodes and acts like an asss, they can just waive him as the same sunk cost Silva was.

Based on statistics and potential, Bradley is clearly the better player. But the problem is he brings so much negativity to almost every team that he's played for that it greatly outweighs any potential or cost savings he may offer. I think the Cubs got bailed out a bit on this trade. If it were a straight one for one deal, I would think it was an even deal. Maybe the lack of media and fan scrutiny in Seattle will provide the right environment for Bradly to perform well in and Seattle will be better off. Most of all, I am sad because I already miss the special moments he brought to Wrigley.

[PKBadger]

Obviously Bradley has the potential to be a powder keg, but I get the sense that Junior Griffey (and, to a lesser extent, Ichiro) sort of "own" that Seattle clubhouse and would be able to keep him in check. Maybe I'm wrong - guess we'll find out in a few months.

[The Truth]

Interesting reactions. My thoughts are that the Mariners added one of the least desireable characters in MLB to their roster. I'm not the biggest Doug Melvin fan but I'm very glad Doug is our GM and not Jack Z

[reillymcshane]

I think it's a great move by Seattle.

 

Bradley can still hit. Silva can't pitch - plain and simple. He sucks, and having him on the team is just eating a roster spot. He's worse than a AAA pitcher. With Bradley, they get him in a low pressure environment. If he works out - great. If not, just cut him and be done with it. It's a sunk cost, so if he starts being a problem, he's gone. Otherwise, you get a good player - which was never going to happen before with Silva.

[Ennder]

Bradley can still hit. Silva can't pitch - plain and simple. He sucks, and having him on the team is just eating a roster spot. He's worse than a AAA pitcher

 

This isn't true at all though. Silva was hurt last year. If he recovers from the injury he is most likely worth 1-2 WAR with an outside chance at 3 (which he did 3 of the past 6 years mind you). Silva might not be a great pitcher but you are going way overboard with these statements. Most teams in the NL would upgrade their rotations with Silva as the #5.

[RyDogg66]

The Mariners basically traded two years of a poorer performing Jeff Suppan for a guy who can OPS close to .900. Is Jeff Suppan had two years left on his deal and had put up ERAs over 6.00 rather than 5.00 the years before, I would be ticked at Melvin if he DIDNT make this deal. Character issues are severely overblown in any sport, especially baseball where almost every encounter is 1 on 1.

[endaround]

Those years were when Silva was like 30 pounds lighter.

[jackalope02ca]

The other thing to keep in mind is a plane ticket to Japan is much cheaper to purchase in Seatlle than in Chicago. I'm not sure where he'll have left to go after he wears out his welcome in Seatlle but Japan is a step closer now.

[BREWCREW5]

The other side to that is who cares if he is flipping off fans and fighting announcers if his OBP is near .400?

 

Apparently most of baseball, well, minus Jack Z and the mariners.

[Thurston Fluff]

This is basically a garbage for garbage trade. I'm not sure if anyone other than Jack Z. making this trade would have anybody here saying this is anything other than trading one bad contract for another. Jack is a BF favorite and with reason but this isn't some astute trade. It's taking a chance that their garbage isn't as bad as his, nothing more.

Granted Bradly does have some ability but is always injured and a severe head case. The most this does for either team is give each of them a shot at a lucky change of scenery boost from the player aquired. I think they both have about the same chance of doing so, which is close to none. Most likely both end up on the scrap heap by years end. It'll end up a wash from what amounts to a trivial trade IMO.

 

Character issues are severely overblown in any sport, especially baseball where almost every encounter is 1 on 1.

 

For the most part I agree in baseball. Bradley seems to be the exception to that rule. He transcended from bad guy in the room to flat out distraction all too often to think he won't do so again.

[endaround]

And this is based on what? The Cubs making him the fall guy instead of dealing with the atrocious play of Soriano? Chicago sports talk following Pinella's lead made Bradley the reason for the Cubs' problems two weeks into the season.

[EdgarDiazRocks]

Obviously Bradley has the potential to be a powder keg, but I get the sense that Junior Griffey (and, to a lesser extent, Ichiro) sort of "own" that Seattle clubhouse and would be able to keep him in check. Maybe I'm wrong - guess we'll find out in a few months.

you're not wrong. more importantly is the team's relationship with the fans. If there is one or two jackasses (cough*carl everett*cough) people don't get worked up, they just don't care. now they DO carry grudges after the fact, Spezio better not show his face here anytime soon.

 

as long as Junior and Ichiro! are here, that's where the reporters will go first.

 

 

Funny now to think that both ends of Bradley's first blowup in Cleveland are here. And Gutierrez is more important.

[Ennder]

A lot of their players don't get along with Ichiro either.

 

http://sportsbybrooks.com/mariner-teammate-wanted-to-knock-out-ichiro-20097

 

And it was a clubhouse in need of some direction, given the problems engulfing it as the season came undone. When it came to Ichiro, who got off to a typically slow start in April and part of May, the internal turmoil nearly hit its boiling point.

 

"I just can't believe the number of guys who really dislike him," said one clubhouse insider. "It got to a point early on when I thought they were going to get together and go after him."

 

This same story comes up every year as a lot of people don't get along with him.

[EdgarDiazRocks]

A lot of their players don't get along with Ichiro either.

the complaints about Ichiro! is always about his indifference and his standoffish behavior to some other players. To the fans and media, he's always great.

[Ennder]

Between the Silva signing and the Suppan complaints I figured I'd link this one more time.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/how-good-is-your-4-starter/

 

Now granted the 5th starter is usually an injury callup but as long as a pitcher can match the 4th starter they have value. If your pitcher can post an ERA somewhere between 4.84 and 5.66 they have some sort of value to a team. Silva's xFIP the past 3 years have been 4.57, 4.64 and 5.53. Suppan's have been 4.90, 4.79,. 5.26. These guys aren't good pitchers but they still aren't replacement level or 'worthless'. They aren't good pitchers but very few teams have good pitchers in the #4 or #5 slots.

 

Also of note in that article is that Gallardo does fit the bill of a #1 starter and Wolf most likely fits the bill of a #2. They aren't a dominate 1/2 but they do fit the basic range you expect from them. Bush slots in ok as a #3. The biggest problem with the rotation is there just is no room for error and any injury or underperformace is going to kill us. We need to sign another real SP~ . Ok that went a bit off topic, heh.

[logan82]

I did something similar to that for the NL pitchers from 2009 and came up with this. I used 32 starts per spot in the rotation which means I dropped off 2 starts by the starters with the worst ERA.Link

NL

Spot - ERA/Innings per start

1 - 3.19/6.3

2 - 3.77/6.1

3 - 4.24/5.8

4 - 4.73/5.7

5 - 5.65/5.2

AL

Spot - ERA/Innings per start

1 - 3.27/6.4

2 - 3.98/6.2

3 - 4.47/5.9

4 - 5.08/5.5

5 - 6.47/5.1

 

Wow does that 5th spot balloon way up in the AL.

[Ennder]

Nice work logan. I do think you are getting a bit skewed results from adding all those small sample size guys to the #1. Not sure how else to do it though. I mean Narveson's 4 starts probably shouldnt' really count as a #1 just because he got lucky with his ERA over that small sample or Kyle Kendrick's 2 starts etc. Pitching did improve some the last couple of years league wide(which makes ours look even worse!) so good to see some updated numbers to use.

 

That shows that Suppan slots in between a 4 and 5 and has some value, Silva assuming he is healthy probably slots in as a pure #4. These guys may stink but they aren't worthless either. Gallardo is more of a #2 and Wolf a #3 with that chart but I still think the biggest problem is just the overall depth. We aren't signing a stud at this point but we can add to the depth to make it less important.

[TooLiveBrew]

FanGraph's Erik Manning weighs in: What are the Cubs Doing?

 

The Cubs brain-trust undoubtedly believes they just got better by addition by subtraction, but you don't get rid of cancer by cutting it out with a butcher's knife and then sticking a band-aid over it. While Jim Hendry found himself in an unfortunate situation, there had to be a better way fixing the problem than this. His maneuvering probably cost the Cubs a couple of wins, assuming the plan is starting Silva. That's pretty costly in a division like the NL Central.

[Thurston Fluff]

And this is based on what? The Cubs making him the fall guy instead of dealing with the atrocious play of Soriano? Chicago sports talk following Pinella's lead made Bradley the reason for the Cubs' problems two weeks into the season.

 

I am basing it on his performance and attitude history. Injuries being part of his performance. His entire history goes into it not just last season with the Cubs. He's got a 12 year career yet only had 4 seasons in which he played 100 games or more. Only one in which he played over 130. That was 7 years ago. That's an awful lot of money to pay what amounts to a part time player. The only season in which he played over 130 games his OPS was .786. Not bad but nothing to write home about.

As far as attitude the Bradly situation with the Cubs last year was not just him being the fall guy. He didn't stay healthy and couldn't keep his mouth shut. If that was the only place he ever had problems maybe then I would agree it was Cub/media driven but it isn't. Given the total package he just isn't worth what Seattle has to pay for him. The only way it isn't flat out bad is they also got rid of one of their under performers in the deal.

[jerichoholicninja]

http://www.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/Bradley_letter_master.jpg

 

Milton Bradley's letter in the Chicago Tribune