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Halladay to Phils, Lee to M's in 3-Way Trade

fondybrewfan

By fondybrewfan,
in Milwaukee Brewers Talk

Invader3K Nashville Sounds

Invader3K

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Yes, but the ace the Phillies get in return will be around for more than one season, and is arguably better than the one they had. I think one viewpoint is that they are getting some projectable young talent as well, whereas you have no idea what you'll get in the draft as compensation for Lee.
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fondybrewfan ACL Brewers

fondybrewfan

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Has Ryan Howard signed any sort of extension yet? If not are the Phils going to be able to pay him?

 

I also wonder how much that bandbox will affect Halladay? He does get to go the NL which should improve the stats but the park might more than offset that. He also gets to pitch in NY, ATL, and FL which aren't exactly hitters parks if my memory serves me correctly

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sbrylski ACL Brewers

sbrylski

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Has Ryan Howard signed any sort of extension yet? If not are the Phils going to be able to pay him?

 

I also wonder how much that bandbox will affect Halladay? He does get to go the NL which should improve the stats but the park might more than offset that. He also gets to pitch in NY, ATL, and FL which aren't exactly hitters parks if my memory serves me correctly

His career GB:FB is 2.26. His new home park shouldn't effect him too much.
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JohnBriggs12 Biloxi Shuckers

JohnBriggs12

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In King Felix and Cliff Lee, the M's have a 1-2 at the top of their rotation that could do what the Cards did with Carpenter/Wainwright. They could use another bat in the middle of their order but with Ichiro and Figgins at the top, they'll manufacture a ton of runs. Aumont is a big time pitching prospect but he's at least 2 years away. They could get a decent replacement with the picks they'll get.
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homer MVP

homer

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I agree that it looks like the Mariners are getting the short end of the stick. I don't like the idea of banking on future compensation picks as a reason to trade off solid prospects. It's not like Jack Z is batting 1.000 on his 1st and 2nd round picks.
"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006
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chinabob99 Prep Ball

chinabob99

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From the Mariners side of things, you also have to note that one of their division rivals, the Angels, just lost their ace in Lackey. This deal stops the Angels from replacing Lackey with either Lee OR Halladay while also improving the Mariners.
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TooLiveBrew Milwaukee Brewers

TooLiveBrew

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A couple different takes from FanGraphs...

 

Dave Cameron (of USS Mariner)

Not content with adding Chone Figgins and making a few other small moves that would help them maintain their status as a .500ish club, the Mariners saw an opportunity to put themselves in the AL West race and took it. Lee is a huge upgrade for their pitching staff and a perfect fit for Safeco Field. The cost was fair to middling prospects, not premium guys who would help the team in 2010, and the Mariners saw this as a chance to add wins at a far below market price without sacrificing too much of their future.

 

For all three franchises, the thought behind the deal is sound. There are legitimate reasons for fans of all three teams to be happy about this deal. However, I think Toroto and Seattle fans can feel comfortable that this was the best their team could have done. Philly fans, I don't think you can feel that same way.

 

Marc Hulet looks at the prospects involved in the deal

To be honest, I'm not sure why this was a three-team deal. Toronto received nothing from Seattle. The Phillies organization could have done the deal and taken its the time to deal Lee for a better haul than what it got from Seattle. Perhaps the club wanted to soften the blow of trading off its post-season hero with the acquisition of Halladay? Or why not keep both Halladay and Lee and make a serious run at the World Series in 2010? That two-headed monster at the top of the rotation would have struck fear in any lineup.

 

But it's not my job to analyze the overall deal. I'm the prospects guy, so let's get on to the fun stuff.

Stearns Brewing Co.: Sustainability from farm to plate
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logan82 Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

logan82

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I think the deal makes a lot of sense for the Mariners. They were at 85 wins last year and are trying to improve their team for this year. It is more important to try for those wins after 85 than it would be if they were around 75. The closer you can get to 90, the better chance you have of getting into the playoffs. Of course they WAY outperformed their Pythagorean record so maybe they aren't really a 85 win team. I that case it would depend on what they gave up. According to Dave Cameron, not much. He makes it sound like they will probably get better players out of the draft picks for Lee than the players they gave up.

Fan is short for fanatic.

I blame Wang.

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valpocrewsader First Round Pick

valpocrewsader

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This is now being reported as a 4-team deal....

 

------- ESPN.com -------

 

PHILLIES GET...

RHP Roy Halladay (from Toronto)

*RHP Phillippe Aumont (from Seattle)

*OF Tyson Gillies (from Seattle)

*RHP Juan Ramirez (from Seattle)

$6 million cash (from Toronto)

 

MARINERS GET...

LHP Cliff Lee (from Philadelphia)

 

BLUE JAYS GET...

*C Travis d'Arnaud (from Philadelphia)

*RHP Kyle Drabek (from Philadelphia)

*1B/3B Brett Wallace (from Oakland)

 

A'S GET---

*OF Michael Taylor (from Philadelphia via Toronto)

 

* -- minor leaguer

 

Very jealous of the Phillies. Not sure what the M's are doing. Blue Jays seem to accomplish what they wanted. A wash for the A's?

"We all know he is going to be a flaming pile of Suppan by that time." -fondybrewfan
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valpocrewsader First Round Pick

valpocrewsader

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Not sure what the M's are doing.
Getting one of the best pitchers in the game at a bargain price?
I guess I just expected Jack Z to be more of a build-from-within guy, not someone who would go quantity for quality at the beginning of his second year to get a one-year rental. Maybe I'm just jealous that they acquired such a difference maker....
"We all know he is going to be a flaming pile of Suppan by that time." -fondybrewfan
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jjfanec ACL Brewers

jjfanec

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Not sure what the M's are doing.
Getting one of the best pitchers in the game at a bargain price?
I do not think 3 of your best prospects for a one year rental is a bargain price. Aumont is a better prospect than the rankings suggest because other teams see him as a starter not a reliever.
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Gobias Industries First Round Pick

Gobias Industries

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Why didn't the Phillies just go all out, and keep Lee for the year and then take the comp picks for him? A Halladay, Lee, Halmes rotation would have been unreal, and no question would have made them the favorites in the NL again.

 

On a side note, I think I'm gonna root for Seattle this year. I like the team Jack Z is building up there, sans Griffey.

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MJLiverock Draft Eligible

MJLiverock

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Maybe Jack Z has thought he hasn't been good at building a pitching staff through the draft but has been good at drafting bats so he trades for pitching now rather than wait until it is too late.

 

Also interesting to see Wallace moved again. I thought the Cardinals did a good job in acquirng Holliday and now Wallace has been flipped yet again.

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trwi7 Nashville Sounds

trwi7

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I do not think 3 of your best prospects for a one year rental is a bargain price. Aumont is a better prospect than the rankings suggest because other teams see him as a starter not a reliever.
I don't consider them three of their best prospects. Aumont was going to stay in the bullpen if he was with the Mariners so that limited his value to them, Ramirez, while a good prospect is not a great prospect and Gillies isn't even their best outfield prospect. More like a Michael Brantley type, good, not great. There were no elite prospects in this deal and at worst they get one year of elite pitching and two picks to replace two of the three prospects they gave up.
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JoeHova First Round Pick

JoeHova

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Another thing to keep in mind is that those guys were not Jack's prospects. He may not have had high hopes for any of them. However, even if he did, the Mariners do not have a very good farm system so sending out 3 of their top 15 is not necessarily the same as it would be if a team with a great system did that.

 

One more thing about prospects is that they often don't pan out. Think of how many Brewers prospects had value when they were in A ball but never even made the majors, much less had an impact when they got there. The Mariners traded a lot of uncertainty for much less uncertainty.

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