Kenny Lofton

[kwelak21]

I know he is getting old and probably doesn't have much left, but doesn't he actually fit the best with what the brewers want. He can't be that much worse than Dave Roberts or Juan Pierre and you would probably only have to sign him to a one year deal and still would be able to give Tony Gywnn plenty of playing time to give Lofton some rest for his old legs. I would look into it if Pierre and Roberts are going for to high of price.

[brettac1]

I think the idea behind signing one of these CF's is so that they don't have to play Gwynn.

 

Lofton is virtually the same as Roberts. I'd rather have both than Pierre, but I think I'd rather have Crisp than all three of those, because he was pretty decent in '04 and '05.

[Gone]

I'd much rather have Lofton for one year than the multi year/high $ contracts that have been mentioned for Roberts or Pierre.

[yfinn6]

Let's just say that we were to sign Lofton to a 1 year deal. Then we would most likely be having this same conversation next year, will Gwynn be ready after one more year at AAA or after a year on the bench with the big club? Is Krynzel out of the picture now? Just throwing these questions out there, because I think the Brewers are a ways away from solving their CF issue.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about the potential signing of Roberts, he could be a good leadoff hitter for us but just the fact that he's 34 has me somewhat skeptical.

 

As far as Coco Crisp goes, was it printed anywhere that Boston was shopping him? I can't imagine that they would be, didn't they give up quite a bit for him? Wasn't it Marte, after their got Marte from Atlanta? Maybe I'm wrong about that but I would assume he's their CF for a while, unless they get a deal that is going to knock their socks off.

[aracko]

Lofton would excite me a bit. Id rather have him over Roberts and Pierre as well. Not sure who I would prefer over he and Gwynn jr.

 

Its too bad Gwynn jr and Lofton both hit left handed or it would be a pretty ideal platoon.

 

Id be all for signing Lofton and letting Gwynn play the year in AAA(if he has options left).

[brettac1]

I personally think they need a long-term solution for CF, rather than a stop-gap. I don't think Gwynn will ever be the answer. That's why I would like to see them get someone like Crisp, or possibly trade one of the veterans for a more advanced CF prospect.

 

Crisp has apparently been involved in some talks, I think I remember reading that Colorado was talking to the Sox about him. His name was also mentioned as being dealt to San Diego for Linebrink.

[aracko]

How do we get Cory Patterson?

[yfinn6]

Quote:

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How do we get Cory Patterson?

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Shouldn't that be written in blue? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Maybe if we could get the coachable version of Corey Patterson. Actually, I have no idea if he is or isn't coachable, I'd like to think that he isn't in the sense that he's got all kinds of talent but he just can't seem to use it correctly. Maybe he's just one of those players that will never be able to put it together.

[aracko]

I actully am serious - and since we were discussing other option in this thread I thought I would go with it. Personally I think Patterson took a huge step towards putting it all together last season in Baltimore. I know his .329 OBP doesnt really support that.

 

I dont think he is a Leadoff hitter, but rather a bottom of the order guy who would be a nice platoon option and option off the bench.

[brettac1]

A few of us felt that way last year when he was being traded. I thought he would have made some sense. He's kind of like a LH Beltran without the walks - he's got power, plays good defense, and can steal bases efficiently.

 

Still, I have serious reservations about a guy who had a .314 OBP last season. That's really awful, and the Brewers need as many guys who consistently get on base as they can get.

[kwelak21]

The thing about Patterson too is that he is not a leadoff hitter and he doesn't want to be a leadoff hitter and I think that is what we are looking for from our center fielder.

[aracko]

I agree that leadoff hitter might be what we want out of CF, but I think Ricky does a fine job leading off, and I also think that JJ Hardy or Cory Hart could handle the duties. There are positives each of these guys would bring to the top of the order.

 

The more I think about it the more I wonder if it really is necessary to have a prototypical leadoff guy. Curtis Granderson wasnt your prototype and I dont believe David Eckstein is either. Correct me if I am wrong. Both players led off for their team in the World Series.

[brettac1]

Granderson is a terrific lead-off hitter, because he can walk and hit for some power. Eckstein, not so much, but yeah he did lead off for a World Series team - which also featured the best hitter in the league and two other very good to great hitters in Edmonds and Rolen.

 

So, in the case of Granderson, since he does get on base, he is prototypical (his numbers fell off considerably after the break, though). I don't think Hardy (for sure) or Hart (likely) would get on base consistently enough to leadoff. The only options I see for the Brewers right now that would be fine are probably Weeks and Gross.

[aracko]

In fairness to corey hart - last year was essentially his first taste of MLB. In the Minors he posted just fine #s for a leadoff hitter - although I do agree that he might strike out too much for the prototype. If he concentrated on making more contact and let his size and natural strength take care of the long ball I think he would post similar #s in the majors.

2005 - .377 OBP .913 OPS

2006 - .391 OBP .954 OPS

 

 

Just one mans opinion.

[brettac1]

I could care less about the strikeouts. It's the walks and P/PA. I think he will be a good hitter, but probably need to carry a high AVG in order to get on base enough. To be fair to him, his walk rate did improve in the minors.

[aracko]

Sorry but what is P/PA? Pitch per plate appearance?

[brettac1]

Yes.

[giffted1]

Quote:

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I actully am serious - and since we were discussing other option in this thread I thought I would go with it. Personally I think Patterson took a huge step towards putting it all together last season in Baltimore. I know his .329 OBP doesnt really support that.

 

I dont think he is a Leadoff hitter, but rather a bottom of the order guy who would be a nice platoon option and option off the bench.

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I'd rather pursue Patterson than sign someone like Roberts or Lofton. He may have a poor .obp but he'd provide some speed and power near the bottom of the order.

 

The problem is that we have no one to platoon with him, but we'd have the same problem with Lofton and Roberts as far as that goes.

[DHonks]

Roberts would be my main choice, followed by Lofton or Drew. I wouldn't be considering Patterson or Pierre (just signed)

[igor67]

We do have that Brady Clark fellow. Brady's not a great player, and he had a down year, but he does everything a lot of these other players don't. Patterson's defense last year by most metrics was excellent. Against Righties he posted an .826 OPS with excellent SB numbers looks pretty interesting out of the 7 spot. Clark gives you the patience against lefties.

[endaround]

Not sure why you don't send Gross out there full time to see if he can hit lefties at all. He basically would just need like a 700 OPS against them to make him a decent CFer.

[sbrylski]

Not sure why you don't send Gross out there full time to see if he can hit lefties at all. He basically would just need like a 700 OPS against them to make him a decent CFer.

 

If I'm GM, Gross is my starting CFer and leadoff batter next year. I think he looked just as good if not better defensively as Clark.

 

Also, if someone posts a .380, .381, and .380 OBP in AAA in each of three consecutive years and a career minor league total of .381, I think you can tell what type of player he is. He will consistently get on base. The question is whether his stats and talent would translate into the bigs. His first two tries were a bit weak - .311 in 148 PA's and .324 in 102 PA's, but last year he finally broke through, and posted a shocking .382 in 244

 

I think that shows that he's likely to continue to get on base in the bigs. He even was 14 of 16 in SB attempts in '05 (102 games in AAA), but that's not what I care about. If you can get on base at a .380 clip, you are my leadoff hitter.

[monkeyman343434]

i couldn't agree more sbrylski, every post i've made involving anything about the roster for next year has included Gross in CF... usually with a platoon mate, but i'd be just as happy seeing him start every day out there, watching him at the plate he reminds me of overbay, and from what i remember with overbay was everyone was trying to think of a way to keep him on the team / in the lineup when Prince was coming up.. plus gross seems a lot more athletic than overbay

[sbrylski]

i couldn't agree more sbrylski, every post i've made involving anything about the roster for next year has included Gross in CF... usually with a platoon mate

 

Brady and Gross would make a wonderful leadoff platoon.

 

I just don't want to see in July Dave Roberts with a .345/.400/.745 line starting everyday over Gross who's holding a .380/.460/.840 line against RHP.

 

(Gross' line v RHP this year was .400/.508/.908, so the potential is even there for him to well exceed my projection.)

[yfinn6]

Quote:

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Brady and Gross would make a wonderful leadoff platoon.

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If it was this or sign Roberts to a 3 year deal worth 5 million per, I would take the Brady and Gross platoon and save ourselves the money for something else, or keep it for future purposes.

 

I'd like to think that some of the younger hitters will develop more and be able to drive in some more runs - mainly looking at Rickie here, key for him is to stay healthy. Same with Hardy, though I don't anticipate he'll ever be a big run producer the way Rickie can.