Jon Garland- he's the Brewers "backup plan" if Wolf doesn't sign

[Pudster13]

Link

 

"Should the Brewers get surprised and get a "no" from Wolf, it's my understanding that their fall-back position is Jon Garland, who pitched last season for Arizona and the Dodgers. The 30-year-old right-hander was 11-13 with a 4.01 ERA for those clubs."

 

Not a big fan of Melvin's "back-up" plan. I really think the Brewers should be targeting a pitcher with Ace potential- Harden, Bedard, or Sheets.

 

Wolf or Garland remind me all to much of the Suppan signing.

[PeaveyFury]

Not a big fan of Melvin's "back-up" plan. I really think the Brewers should be targeting a pitcher with Ace potential- Harden, Bedard, or Sheets.

 

Bedard is hurt, Sheets' injury status is unknown, and Harden is a walking injury himself. Yes they have ace potential, but I fail to grasp the continued suggestion on this board that giving a bunch money to someone like Wolf or Garland is truly more risk than giving it to Harden, Bedard, or Sheets.

 

And for the love of God, not every signing of a pitcher for this club is going to be the next Suppan signing, just like every bat they sign to a long-ish deal isn't going to be the next Jeff Hammonds or Marquis Grissom.

[Yeti73]

Those Aces all have HUGE question marks from an injury stand point. I like Garland. He's had a good career and would immediately become our 2nd best starter. Assuming it would be a shorter contract than Wolf, he could offer similar stats. He does have a lot of innings, but otherwise, I'm all for it.

[yoshii8]

And for the love of God, not every signing of a pitcher for this club is going to be the next Suppan signing, just like every bat they sign to a long-ish deal isn't going to be the next Jeff Hammonds or Marquis Grissom.

Thank you, I'm also getting very tired of every fa pitcher being called another Suppan, it is getting a little played out.

 

I would be happy w/ getting Garland, but I'd much rather have Wolf.

[fondybrewfan]

Garland is a fine back up plan.

 

Like TH's post suggests these injury risk pitchers might come at a bargain in January. If someone like Harden, Sheets, Bedard, Duchsherer is still available in January then maybe make a run at one. Right now is the time to get some stability and Wolf or Garland would achieve that.

 

I just don't understand why some many people seem to think that Wolf or Garland are going to be the next Suppan. These deals would not be for 4 years, would not be 8 figures, and Wolf is obviously better while Garland is a bit more pedestrian. Both would be good additions to the staff

[JohnBriggs12]

Garland turned 30 on Sept. 27. On Sept 26th, only Sabathia had more career wins than Garland among pitchers under 30.

 

I realize that Suppan's signing has left scars, but every guy out there is not Suppan.

[Invader3K]

Any idea what kind of contract Garland will be due for? I suppose maybe similar to the one Wolf is looking to get from the Brewers?

[valpocrewsader]

If Garland can be had for two years instead of three, or even just a couple million less per year over three, he should be the Brewers' focus and they should forget about Wolf. Both players would have about the same impact on the Brewers, there's no good reason to give Wolf more money for more years.

 

Furthermore, Garland is younger with less injury history. DM is working backwards on this one.

[Invader3K]

Any reason they can't get both? I suppose maybe they don't have room in the budget for two pitchers like that.

[JohnBriggs12]

Any reason they can't get both? I suppose maybe they don't have room in the budget for two pitchers like that.

They might if they non-tendered Bush.

[Invader3K]

That's an interesting idea. I think I'd rather have Garland than Bush at this point. I'd guess Garland is looking for a three year deal, though. Just speculation on my part.

[Pudster13]

Suppan age and career ERA when Milwaukee signed him- 32 and 4.57

 

Garland age and career ERA- 30 and 4.42

 

Wolf age and career ERA- 33 and 4.13

 

 

In spite of the money being less than offered to Suppan, I think the word "pedestrian" sums up what type of starting pitchers we are talking about here.

 

"Innings Eaters" not pitchers with potential to be 1 or 2 starters.

[Invader3K]

One nice thing about Wolf is that he is a lefty where the others are not.

[Omar Little]

Not a big fan of Melvin's "back-up" plan. I really think the Brewers should be targeting a pitcher with Ace potential- Harden, Bedard, or Sheets.

 

Bedard is hurt, Sheets' injury status is unknown, and Harden is a walking injury himself. Yes they have ace potential, but I fail to grasp the continued suggestion on this board that giving a bunch money to someone like Wolf or Garland is truly more risk than giving it to Harden, Bedard, or Sheets.

 

And for the love of God, not every signing of a pitcher for this club is going to be the next Suppan signing, just like every bat they sign to a long-ish deal isn't going to be the next Jeff Hammonds or Marquis Grissom.

Well said Peavey! People are already starting to complain about Wolf's injury issues, Bedard and Harden would be 10 times worse for a lot more $$$. Also, why do so many people have this pie-in-the-sky thinking that Sheets will come back to Milwaukee?? The relationship between the Crew and Sheets was severely fractured after the 2008 season. Sheets felt slighted by the Brewers contract wise and won't come back unless the WAAAAY overpay for him and even then, I don't think he'd come back here.

[davego]

Isn't Garland a "better" sign then Wolf? Guess I'm wrong, but that is what I thought going into the off-season.

[twobrewers]

The relationship between the Crew and Sheets was severely fractured after the 2008 season.

The relationship between the Milwaukee fans and Sheets was severely fractured during the 2008 season as well.

 

If Sheets came to Milwaukee and walked off the mound hurt, the boos would rain down on him. I'm sure their are about 20 places he would rather pitch.

[brewmann04]

It about time for the brewers to say no to this injury prone pitchers.

[PeaveyFury]

"Innings Eaters" not pitchers with potential to be 1 or 2 starters.

 

Not being able to eat innings was one of the major problems for the 2009 Brewers, which is why the likes of Mike Burns and Carlos Villanueva were starting for the team. There is a heck of a lot of value for this team in someone that can put up a 4.0-4.5 ERA and throw 200 innings.

 

Look, I'm not claiming Wolf or Garland or whomever to be our savior, but the Brewers need two pitchers, and Wolf is probably the best one they can get to fill one of the spots. I'd be absolutely thrilled if they could get Sheets or Harden or someone like that to fill the other and be our potential ace, but that doesn't remove the need for another solid arm in the rotation besides them. Is 3 years/27 million high for a guy like Wolf? Probably to some degree. But it's not completely out of line with what free agent pitching is going to be expecting this year, and as we've seen with Wolf's apparent reluctance to accept what is reportedly the best offer on the table, the Brewers are still a team that does need to go a little higher to close the deal.

[chadomac]

One nice thing about Wolf is that he is a lefty where the others are not.

 

I still don't understand this... I guess I never have. Most hitters are right-handed... wouldn't a lefty starter be a DISadvantage for the most part? Unless you're facing the 2007 Cincinnati Reds?

[JonnyLungs]

If Garland can be had for two years instead of three, or even just a couple million less per year over three, he should be the Brewers' focus and they should forget about Wolf. Both players would have about the same impact on the Brewers, there's no good reason to give Wolf more money for more years.

 

Furthermore, Garland is younger with less injury history. DM is working backwards on this one.

I don't think he is working backwards at all. I'd rather target the better pitcher first, and Wolf is the better pitcher.

 

Wolf Career K/9: 7.4

Garland Career K/9: 4.7

 

Wolf 2009 K/9: 6.7

Garland 2009 K/9: 4.8

 

Wolf Career K/BB: 2.29

Garland Career K/BB: 1.62

 

Wolf 2009 K/BB: 2.76

Garland 2009 K/BB: 1.79

 

HR/9 is a wash for both players in terms of career and last year.

 

I don't think Garland is a bad pitcher by any means, but I see more Jeff Suppan (career K/BB is 1.62 also!) in Jon Garland than I do Randy Wolf. Wolf is the better pitcher and he will deservedly get more money. I'd rather go after the better pitcher even if he costs a little more.

[Pudster13]

I agree that Randy Wolf is the better of the two, and if it's gonna be one of those two, I'm surely hoping for Wolf.

 

With that said, I don't feel the Brewers ARE going to target a pitcher like Harden/Bedard with ace potential, in addition to a Wolf/Garland deal.

 

Instead, I see us signing a setup guy and stick with Dave Bush and sign someone like Mulder.

 

I just don't think those moves will make us a contender next year.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Garland's K rate and K/BB rate are very suggestive that he is a similar pitcher to Jeff Suppan. That being said, he's a touch younger, and (I'd hope at least) significantly less expensive. I'd be ok with it, I wouldn't do cartwheels or anything.

[Invader3K]

I think some Brewers fans had pretty unrealistic expectation going into this off-season. What other options does Melvin have other than signing someone like Wolf or Garland? Yeah, he could stand pat and not do much, but that would be a death knell for season ticket sales, and for chances to win this season. It would also be seen as a sign of disrespect to the 3 million fans who filled Miller Park the past two seasons. Everyone seems to at least agree that a similar rotation to last season's just won't cut mustard. So he is trying to fix the problem. Yes, it would be nice if he hadn't signed Jeff Suppan and Bill Hall and had more cash to play with this off-season, but we can't keep thinking retroactively. The team can only move forward with the given present situation. Since Mark Attanasio probably isn't going to allow the payroll to significantly balloon and take a loss (and why should he?) Melvin has to work with what he has at hand.

 

John Lackey would be nice, but that's a pipe dream for the Brewers unless they would want to overpay. They would probably have to guarantee about 6 years to beat out the big market teams. In the long run, a contract like that would probably cripple the Brewers' ability to move forward and pay other players. There would be no chance to re-sign Fielder, either, unless they are willing to commit approximately half the current payroll on two players.

 

We have no chance at Halladay, either. He has a no trade clause and seems adamant about being moved to a team in the Grapefruit League. Unless the Brewers plan on leaving Maryvale in the next two months, that rules them out. Other than "Doc", what other ace level pitchers are available via trade?

 

Other than that, suggestions about trading for a "good young cheap pitcher" keep being thrown out. Look at what the D-Backs had to give up to get Edwin Jackson. Do people really want to see the Brewers give up the equivalent package (if we even have something like that available)?

 

Melvin is doing what he can. A guy like Wolf will help stabilize the rotation, and it sounds like signing Mark Mulder is a given. They'll get someone else to boot. It just won't be a Lackey/Halladay type, but we never had a chance at one of those anyway.

[Ennder]

Garland is basically no different than Suppan in my opinion, he is just younger so isn't in his decline phase for a couple more years yet. Wolf is a step up from that type of pitcher.

[JonnyLungs]

I agree that Randy Wolf is the better of the two, and if it's gonna be one of those two, I'm surely hoping for Wolf.

 

With that said, I don't feel the Brewers ARE going to target a pitcher like Harden/Bedard with ace potential, in addition to a Wolf/Garland deal.

One thing I'd note, and I know you are speaking of Harden/Bedard being in addition to Wolf/Garland but I've seen others clamoring for Harden/Bedard as alternatives to Wolf/Garland due to their ace potential.

 

Last year, Harden averaged 5.4 innings per start, and the year before 5.92 innings per start. Bedard only has one season (2007) where he averaged over 6 innings per start. The kind of high intensity, high strikeout, slightly high walk rate type of pitcher that Bedard and Harden are lead to higher pitch counts and lower innings per start.

 

Wolf, for comparison's sake averaged about 6 1/3 innings per start last year, up from being around 5.75 in 2008. Before Wolf's injuries, he was easily above six innings per game and seems to be working back to that type of endurance now that he has been healthy for a few years.

 

Since this is a Garland thread, he's been above 6 innings per start as far as I cared to look back.

 

Point being, and others have made it too, bullpen overuse hurt the Brewers last year and I don't think Harden and Bedard have the track record of being pitchers that can regularly go deep into games due to their max effort styles. I would absolutely love to have Harden or Bedard in addition to Randy Wolf but signing either of those guys to be cornerstones of the rotation outside of Yo and hoping they will give us over 200 innings is highly wishful thinking if you ask me. Then we'll be dealing with bullpen burnout once again.