2010 payroll after 12/9

[logan82]

"Buyouts in contracts count on our payroll," said Melvin. "That's the thing when you're doing payrolls that people don't understand. We also budget $2 million for call-ups (from the minors). And there's incentives (in contracts)." Link

[thebruce44]

I understand what you guys are saying and agree.

 

We are lucky they bumped up the payroll to where it is and I wasn't trying to say I expect it to go any further. Just that I expected the 25 man to still be at $80 mil and not dip down to $70 or so because of Hall. I imagine sucking it up and eating Hall's contract for one year is a lot easier to commit to than a 3 year contract on a new player.

 

So I think they are right in line with the last couple of years and the next few as well (with Hall's contract fitting into their plans somehow for this year). Hopefully they still have a little flexibility in case something presents itself during the season as Invader suggested.

[logan82]

I would guess that their payroll is likely to be $90M minus the $7.1M for Hall and $2M for in season call-ups. So somewhere around $80M to spend right now. I think we are right up against that now. We will not know for sure until after arbitration cases are settled, but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't sign another free agent.

[thebruce44]

After reading Tom's blog today where he made it sound like our total payroll including Hall would be around $80 mil, I quickly added up all the current salaries (along with my best guess at projections for Arby players) and came up to $82ish (including Hall, Looper, and Weathers). This is of course after finding out Wolf deferred some of his salary and is only getting $5.25 this year.

 

Can anyone else confirm this total figure? It sounded like Al also had a spreadsheet, or I would be happy to email mine to anyone who PMs me their email. This is surprising since I think most of us assumed their 25 man roster payroll would be at $80 mil not including the dead weight.

[PKBadger]

The news about the Wolf deferral was a pleasant surprise....gives me hope that we could still be in the running for a Duchscherer or similar bargain FA pitcher in January. I'd prefer a trade that brought in cost-controlled, high upside pitching talent but if free agency is what it takes to push Suppan to the bullpen, I'm all for it.

[nate82]

Can anyone else confirm this total figure? It sounded like Al also had a spreadsheet, or I would be happy to email mine to anyone who PMs me their email. This is surprising since I think most of us assumed their 25 man roster payroll would be at $80 mil not including the dead weight.

When I did mine I didn't include the buyouts and the other financial burdens. So far I have this:

 

Player		Salary
Jeff Suppan		$12.50
Prince Fielder		$10.50
Trevor Hoffman		$7.50
David Riske		$4.50
David Bush		$6.00
Rickie Weeks		$4.00
Jody Gerut		$2.50
Ryan Braun		$1.00
Craig Counsell		$2.10
Todd Coffey		$3.00
Carlos Villanueva		$2.00
Manny Parra		$0.50
Greg Zaun		$1.40
Yovani Gallardo		$0.50
Mitch Stetter		$0.50
Alcides Escobar		$0.50
Mat Gamel		$0.50
Casey McGehee		$0.50
Chris Narveson		$0.50
Claudio Vargas		$2.50
Corey Hart		$4.50
Randy Wolf		$9.25
Carlos Gomez		$1.00
Latroy Hawkins		$3.00
Total		$80.75
other
Bill Hall		$7.10
Braden Looper		$1.00
David Weathers		$0.40
Misc		$2.00
Total		$10.50
Other + Total		$91.25

 

That is also not adding in either Salome, Lucroy, Treanor, or Kottaras as the back up catcher. So you can add about $1m to the payroll.

[HiAndTight]

Well, as Bruce just said, Wolf's salary this year is roughly 5.25 million, so take 4 million away from that total, and then they said they allocate 2 million for mid-season callup's placing us at about 89.25, plus the 1 million for the catcher. So 90.25 total given those moves.

 

 

In any event, just think about when Payne resigned? We were in the midst of cutting our payroll to what, 27 million dollars? Now just 7-8 years later, however long it's been, we're discussing how far over 90 million we're going to end up going into the season.

 

That in and of itself is awesome.

 

 

As far as Riske goes, the fact that he's suppose to be ready by Spring Training, and able to pitch again this year gives me pause that we've got any chance to recoup any of that money based on his insurance policy. I'm hopping he can come back this year and become the pitcher he's been in the past rather than hoping to get the 4 million back as I just don't see it meeting the criteria.

[thebruce44]

I had much lower Arby numbers for the relievers like Villy and Coffey. Also, Vargas was listed as $0.90 mil when I checked, not $2.5, then $4 mil less for Wolf. Your misc $2 mil is for player additions? All those togeather are roughly $7.6 mil not couting the differences we had in relievers, so I think our gap is accounted for.

 

What does a slightly above replacement level releaver typically get in his first year of Arby? I have a hard time paying $2 mil to Villy when he may even start the year in AAA. Coffey had his first good year of the last 3 (which is what I hear they look at for Arby) so $3.00 mil seems like a huge jump from $0.8 in his second Arby season.

 

Anyway, I think we are in the low to mid 80s at this point couting Hall and the rest depending on Arby pay. Probably not going to be adding too much more salary before the season or during the year, but also fairly in line with the last couple of opening day payrolls.

[logan82]

Well, as Bruce just said, Wolf's salary this year is roughly 5.25 million, so take 4 million away from that total

Wolf's salary is $9.25M. The $5.25 is already taking the $4M into account.

[KCBrewerfan34]

If Bush gets 6 I will be shocked, then basically every starter will be making 6 or more. Bush's numbers were awful last year, injury or no injury his numbers are his performance, based on arby.

[PKBadger]

Well, as Bruce just said, Wolf's salary this year is roughly 5.25 million, so take 4 million away from that total

Wolf's salary is $9.25M. The $5.25 is already taking the $4M into account.

He's talking about nate82's calculation....still had Wolf listed at 9.25.

[thebruce44]

Not sure of a better way to post this, but here is what I came up with to get $83ish mil. Its a mess, but look at the ### column that was supposed to be 2010.

 

http://www.theshirtalert.com/storage/Brewers2010.png

[reillymcshane]

Can anyone else confirm this total figure? It sounded like Al also had a spreadsheet, or I would be happy to email mine to anyone who PMs me their email. This is surprising since I think most of us assumed their 25 man roster payroll would be at $80 mil not including the dead weight.

When I did mine I didn't include the buyouts and the other financial burdens. So far I have this:

 

Player		Salary
Jeff Suppan		$12.50
Prince Fielder		$10.50
Trevor Hoffman		$7.50
David Riske		$4.50
David Bush		$6.00
Rickie Weeks		$4.00
Jody Gerut		$2.50
Ryan Braun		$1.00
Craig Counsell		$2.10
Todd Coffey		$3.00
Carlos Villanueva		$2.00
Manny Parra		$0.50
Greg Zaun		$1.40
Yovani Gallardo		$0.50
Mitch Stetter		$0.50
Alcides Escobar		$0.50
Mat Gamel		$0.50
Casey McGehee		$0.50
Chris Narveson		$0.50
Claudio Vargas		$2.50
Corey Hart		$4.50
Randy Wolf		$9.25
Carlos Gomez		$1.00
Latroy Hawkins		$3.00
Total		$80.75
other
Bill Hall		$7.10
Braden Looper		$1.00
David Weathers		$0.40
Misc		$2.00
Total		$10.50
Other + Total		$91.25

 

That is also not adding in either Salome, Lucroy, Treanor, or Kottaras as the back up catcher. So you can add about $1m to the payroll.

I agree that some of the arby figures look high. Vargas signed for 900k if the salary page is correct - not $2.5. And I doubt Bush is getting $2 million raise after last year. Maybe a small raise, but not a 50% raise. I believe McClung got $1.6 million last year in his first year of arby - so I doubt Villanueva will get more after having a worse year than McClung did. I'd say around $1 million. Coffey seems high by 1/2-1 million. Gerut, Weeks and Hart are probably not that far off. Zaun is low by 1/2 million.

 

Not a huge deal - but it does between Vargas, Bush, Villy and Coffey, you could trim $4 million off the total.

[logan82]

KegStand81 wrote:

He's talking about nate82's calculation....still had Wolf listed at 9.25.

Oops, my bad.

[nate82]

I agree that some of the arby figures look high. Vargas signed for 900k if the salary page is correct - not $2.5. And I doubt Bush is getting $2 million raise after last year. Maybe a small raise, but not a 50% raise. I believe McClung got $1.6 million last year in his first year of arby - so I doubt Villanueva will get more after having a worse year than McClung did. I'd say around $1 million. Coffey seems high by 1/2-1 million. Gerut, Weeks and Hart are probably not that far off. Zaun is low by 1/2 million.

 

Not a huge deal - but it does between Vargas, Bush, Villy and Coffey, you could trim $4 million off the total.

Those were all estimated amounts except for the players who signed. I haven't updated the spreadsheet I was working on for all of the players. I believe I used 1/4 of what the player made last season if they were arby eligible the year before. If it was their first arbitration then they got what I consider the safe minimum amount which is either 1m or 2m. I haven't updated Wolf's new numbers either yet. Zaun's contract according to Cot's is at 1.4m for next year not taking into account the signing bonus which would put his contract value at 1.9m. If you take what Bush got last year which was 4m and multiply that by .25 you get 1m. So 6m is rather close to what you can expect Bush to get I doubt he gets anything lower than 4.5m and I believe he will probably get something more closer to 5-6m.

 

Villanueva is a little high but it is hard to determine what he would get in arbitration and I believe Coffey will be signed before he goes to arbitration and that is the amount I believe he will be signed at or rather close to it. I didn't update Vargas either which I should probably do.

 

I had much lower Arby numbers for the relievers like Villy and Coffey. Also, Vargas was listed as $0.90 mil when I checked, not $2.5, then $4 mil less for Wolf. Your misc $2 mil is for player additions? All those togeather are roughly $7.6 mil not couting the differences we had in relievers, so I think our gap is accounted for.

 

What does a slightly above replacement level releaver typically get in his first year of Arby? I have a hard time paying $2 mil to Villy when he may even start the year in AAA. Coffey had his first good year of the last 3 (which is what I hear they look at for Arby) so $3.00 mil seems like a huge jump from $0.8 in his second Arby season.

As I explained above about my arby figures. Same with Vargas just haven't updated that yet and the same with Wolf.

 

The misc is for minor league transactions. As for Coffey as I have stated above I believe he will be resigned by the Brewers and avoid arbitration. Villy is a little high but I think it is rather close to what he is going to be making. Probably more along 1-1.5m but I wouldn't be surprised if he got $2m. All of my arby figures are very generous.

[thebruce44]

No worries Nate, I was just trying to compare our lists and see where the discrepancy was, not tell you what was wrong with yours.

 

Hopefully all of our players sign before they go to Arby, but your guess on the figures is as good as mine.

 

From the way Tom was talking on his blog though it made me think the payroll was around the low $80s. Its hard to estimate still at this point, but I have to go with $82-$85 right now as my best guess. I am a little disappointed since I thought they would go into the high $80s to make up for all the dead weight, but can understand if this is the best they can do. It means that they are paying the guys on the field in the mid $70s which is definitely lower than the past couple of years (unless they add one more arm).

[nate82]

No worries Nate, I was just trying to compare our lists and see where the discrepancy was, not tell you what was wrong with yours.

 

Hopefully all of our players sign before they go to Arby, but your guess on the figures is as good as mine.

 

From the way Tom was talking on his blog though it made me think the payroll was around the low $80s. Its hard to estimate still at this point, but I have to go with $82-$85 right now as my best guess. I am a little disappointed since I thought they would go into the high $80s to make up for all the dead weight, but can understand if this is the best they can do. It means that they are paying the guys on the field in the mid $70s which is definitely lower than the past couple of years (unless they add one more arm).

No problem was just explaining how I got the numbers. I do agree that most of our players will sign before they go to arby only Hart is the one I believe is the most likely to go through the whole arbitration process.

 

I think you are right but you haven't to remember we are still in a down economy where corporations and consumers are not really spending all that much so I don't expect the Brewers to increase payroll or to even keep the same payroll as long as they are around where they normally are and are not dropping off considerably salary wise I am OK with that. I do believe the Brewers will add one more starting pitcher besides Mulder. There are options out there for the Brewers and the prices for the players that are still out there right now will go down. Sheets, Meyers, Bedard, Duchsherer (I probably spelled that wrong), Pineiro, Davis, Washburn, and Garland are still available to be had. All of those pitchers have their warts but the price of those pitchers will be coming down considerably in the next few weeks I wouldn't be surprised if half of those players signed for considerably less than what they thought they were going to get either in years or in money.

 

I'm just hoping it is either Meyers or Davis but I'm not really excited about either of those two though.

[Baldkin]

Coming off an up year, a playoff year, and a "normal economy" year.... and now they are coming off a down year in a poorer economy (remember, last year, most people renewed for 2009 before the economy completely tanked)

 

I'm amazed at how much money they've spent already.

[thebruce44]

In any event, just think about when Payne resigned? We were in the midst of cutting our payroll to what, 27 million dollars? Now just 7-8 years later, however long it's been, we're discussing how far over 90 million we're going to end up going into the season.

We have come a long way, but I don't think anyone is talking about how far over 90 mil we're going. More like how far over 80 mil at this point. From eerything Melvin and Tom H. have said recently it doesn't sound like that will be changing.

[HiAndTight]

In any event, just think about when Payne resigned? We were in the midst of cutting our payroll to what, 27 million dollars? Now just 7-8 years later, however long it's been, we're discussing how far over 90 million we're going to end up going into the season.

We have come a long way, but I don't think anyone is talking about how far over 90 mil we're going. More like how far over 80 mil at this point. From eerything Melvin and Tom H. have said recently it doesn't sound like that will be changing.

 

I disagree and believe that this year given the extenuating circumstances we'll be over 90 million dollars based on what Melvin has said.

However, this isn't the point at all. If you'd feel more comfortable saying we're at 86-87, whatever number you believe we'll end up at, fine. 27 million to 87 million is a dramatic and significant difference in a realitively short period of time and far more pertinent than difference between 87 and 92 million.

[HiAndTight]

nate82 wrote:

No problem was just explaining how I got the numbers. I do agree that most of our players will sign before they go to arby only Hart is the one I believe is the most likely to go through the whole arbitration process.

 

I think you are right but you haven't to remember we are still in a down economy where corporations and consumers are not really spending all that much so I don't expect the Brewers to increase payroll or to even keep the same payroll as long as they are around where they normally are and are not dropping off considerably salary wise I am OK with that. I do believe the Brewers will add one more starting pitcher besides Mulder. There are options out there for the Brewers and the prices for the players that are still out there right now will go down. Sheets, Meyers, Bedard, Duchsherer (I probably spelled that wrong), Pineiro, Davis, Washburn, and Garland are still available to be had. All of those pitchers have their warts but the price of those pitchers will be coming down considerably in the next few weeks I wouldn't be surprised if half of those players signed for considerably less than what they thought they were going to get either in years or in money.

 

I'm just hoping it is either Meyers or Davis but I'm not really excited about either of those two though.

 

I agree Nate. Given that we are in a economic recession, Milwaukee has been hit harder than a lot of other markets, I'm pretty impressed that we're already in the mid 80's at this point in time with the prospect of adding another pitcher should we be able to find one who matches our prerequisites and one who is ammenable to pitching in Milwaukee.

 

Of the pitchers you mentioned I would have to agree that Brett Meyers would be one of my favorites because I think he could be had for 4-5 million which is probably right around the limit of what we're able to spend, and I believe he's a prime candidate for a bounce back year given that it was a torn labrum in his hip that caused him to miss a substantial chunk of last year. He's also a strikeout pitcher who still possess good stuff.

 

I think Doug Davis would have to agree to come back for a one year deal at 7 million at most for us to even consider it and with Wolf, Para and then Narveson, a right hander would be preferable. Not a deal breaker obviously...if we could trade for Clayton Kershaw, we're not gonna turn it down because we've got a few lefties obviously. But a consideration.

 

At the end of the day though, you have to sorta take what Melvin says with a grain of salt. He's indicated that they would consider adding another pitcher should there be a suitable match, but also suggested we're done spending for the time being....similar to what he did last year prior to signing Braden Looper.

 

So I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think it'll be very interesting.

[HiAndTight]

Well, as Bruce just said, Wolf's salary this year is roughly 5.25 million, so take 4 million away from that total

Wolf's salary is $9.25M. The $5.25 is already taking the $4M into account.

 

I don't follow what you mean by this. "The 5.25 is already taking the 4 million into account"?

 

I was under the impression that Wolf was only making 5.25 million this year in salary and his list was at 9.25. Am I missing something?

[HiAndTight]

If Bush gets 6 I will be shocked, then basically every starter will be making 6 or more. Bush's numbers were awful last year, injury or no injury his numbers are his performance, based on arby.

I've actually done a bit of a 180 on this one, but I'm not at the point where I would have seriously considered non-tendering Dave Bush. I believe he'll be looking at roughly 5.5, though even 6 isn't out of the question(my guess is he'll ask for about 6 and we'll offer about 5 and meet somewhere in the middle). But if you were to non-tender him, I think you could get more bang for your buck on the FA market. Perhaps as has been speculated, Bett Meyers or another one of the solid FA's still on the market.

[cwolf2012]

"I was under the impression that Wolf was only making 5.25 million this year in salary and his list was at 9.25. Am I missing something?"

 

He took a 4 million dollar deferral from 9.25 mil, making his paid salary for the season 5.25 mil.

 

It means we'll be paying him an extra 4 mil the next 2 years over what his contract said.