Gillick looking to move Burrell. Brewers interested?

[homer]

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While Burrell is an upgrade offensively over Jenkins or Mench, he is a hack in left. In and of itself that's not such a huge deal, but he has foot issues which mean if he can't play left he probably could only play first....and that ain't happening in Milwaukee anytime soon. He'll probably go to an AL team.

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Reposting for Thumperden (and Hauser)

[hauser42]

While Burrell is an upgrade offensively over Jenkins or Mench, he is a hack in left. In and of itself that's not such a huge deal, but he has foot issues which mean if he can't play left he probably could only play first....and that ain't happening in Milwaukee anytime soon. He'll probably go to an AL team.

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Reposting for Thumperden (and Hauser)

 

What are you trying to be a clown or something?? I read your post so what.I stated he wasn't much in the OF,team is looking for a stick and he may fit the bill.

 

By the way Jenks is on the down swing and he looked like a lost puppy in the OF this year at times. Burrell still has some years to play and from what I read on him they think surgery would help his foot. He went rehab last offseason and it didn't work.

[homer]

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What are you trying to be a clown or something??

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Yes

 

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I read your post so what.I stated he wasn't much in the OF,team is looking for a stick and he may fit the bill.

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To paraphrase, I said being crappy in left is not that big a deal, but if you are hurt badly enough (and Burrell has foot issues) that you can't play the outfield, the only other place to play is first base or DH. I don't see the Brewers trading for a Prince Fielder replacement and I don't see them in the AL.

 

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Burrell still has some years to play and from what I read on him they think surgery would help his foot. He went rehab last offseason and it didn't work.

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This is really all you had to post.

[hauser42]

Burrell still has some years to play and from what I read on him they think surgery would help his foot. He went rehab last offseason and it didn't work.

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This is really all you had to post.

 

So what color are your clown shoes??

 

I understand what you are saying that 1B is not an option when it comes to the Brewrs and Burrell. I think that is like saying it snows in Wisconsin sometime during the year.

 

My point was stated that he should be fine if he elects to have surgery on his foot. That is what I have read. He was not happy that the rehab didn't work and wanted it fixed. I don't disagree that he is a butcher out there, I think his bat would make up for it.

[homer]

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My point was stated that he should be fine if he elects to have surgery on his foot. That is what I have read. He was not happy that the rehab didn't work and wanted it fixed.

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Why didn't you just say the above in the first place instead of:

 

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I really think it is funny how so many people worry about defense in LF. LF has always been a place to try and hide a stick that can not catch a cold.

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You never made mention of his injured foot getting surgery, you just mocked people that questioned his defense.

[hauser42]

By the way Jenks is on the down swing and he looked like a lost puppy in the OF this year at times. Burrell still has some years to play and from what I read on him they think surgery would help his foot. He went rehab last offseason and it didn't work

 

This is part of my 2nd ost homer, I stated that surgery could help.

 

I always laugh when people bring up defense and LF. Sorry I'm a bit old school when it come to LF. Big sticks play out there because they could not hack it anywhere else.

[mothershipconnection]

In 2006, he hit a lousy .222/.376/.400 with RISP. There's no doubt that is why they are down on him now.

I hope they're dumb enough to let that lead them to trade him at a big discount.

As was already noted, he absolutely dominated in that situation last year. Also, in 2006 he still hit better with runners on than with the bases empty. Over his career, his numbers are better with runners on, RISP, RISP 2 out, and bases loaded than when the bases are empty. Like lots of other guys, (Jenkins) his situational stats look really clutch one year and really bad the next, that's the ebb and flow of situational stats from limited samples.

[reillymcshane]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think the Phillies need pitching.

 

What about Davis for Burrell? Money is an issue, and depending on how much the Phils throw in, we might have to give something else back.

 

Just a thought.

[trwi7]

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What about Davis for Burrell? Money is an issue, and depending on how much the Phils throw in, we might have to give something else back.

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Then we have a pitching issue potentially throwing 2 rookies out into the rotation. If we could do Jenkins for Burrell and $7M I say do it. Then move Hart to RF Hall to CF and Burrell to LF with an infield of Koskie 3B, (if he can come back) Hardy SS, Weeks 2B and Fielder 1B.

 

Then have a rotation of Sheets, Capuano, Bush, Davis, Villanueva. Perhaps trade for Freddy Garcia.

[reillymcshane]

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Then we have a pitching issue potentially throwing 2 rookies out into the rotation.

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You could invite back Ohka (not the best thing, but just an idea). Or make a run at a guy like Jeff Suppan to fill your #4 slot in the rotation after Sheets, Cappy and Bush. Carlos V. could be #5.

 

Again, just tossing out an idea.

[trwi7]

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You could invite back Ohka (not the best thing, but just an idea). Or make a run at a guy like Jeff Suppan to fill your #4 slot in the rotation

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True but it's not a guarantee that Ohka would come back or that Suppan would come here. If I was Suppan I wouldn't want to come to the Brewers because I wouldn't be able to face the Brewers anymore.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[laserbomb]

The thought of an official release and maybe press conference regarding Suppan's signing made me smile. Not that it matters on the field, but that's the best way I can think of to ensure months and months of cheap shots from writers and casual fans.

 

Maybe Steve Trachsel will be available after his playoff showing, I can't think of the last time we had a guy with "trash" in his nickname.

 

The above was only a little joking, not a comparison and not intended to call anyone out.

 

I flinched when I saw someone post that Bagwell made $19M this year. Can you imagine something like that happening for the Brewers?

 

I know he's a long sight from Jenkins, but at 2 and a half times the cash it'd probably be enough for the miserable segment of our base to put a sour end on a Hall of Fame career. Even if we treated him right on the way out, the owner and GM would be burned in effigy, or at least repeatedly in consecutive Haudricourt chats and the general sentiment.

[reillymcshane]

Suppan's earning himself a couple of extra million with his playoff performance.

[geothite]

I hope the Brewers don't bring Burrell to Milwaukee.

He plays in the top hitters park in baseball. Plus, if Gillick is looking to move him it will be for young quality pitching.

[mothershipconnection]

He plays in the top hitters park in baseball.

In his two previous years at Citizen's Bank, his splits were pretty big, but this year he actually had a .900 OPS on the road vs .880 at home.

[monty57]

From the sounds of things, Burrell and Jenkins may have one big thing in common: The fans have soured on them enough that they pretty much have to be traded this offseason. That said, trading one for the other (with cash & possibly low-level prospect throw-in in some way) could work.

 

From a PR standpoint, it would actually look like a big move, even if actual production doesn't change that much. The corwd's favorite whipping-boy Jenkins would be gone, and we'd have picked up the big right-handed stick everybody's asking for. If nothing else, it could spur some extra ticket sales early on. Of course, everything is dependent on passing the physical.

 

On a side note, if we did this, kept Koskie and landed A-Rod, the Brewers could have other teams paying more salary for the Brewers players than they're paying themselves.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[reillymcshane]

Are we any better? We were injured. Don't blame injuries? Everyone has injuries. Etc.

 

These are all legitimate points. Unfortunately, we tend to look at them one at a time, instead of as a whole.

 

Yes, the team had injuries. Yes, everyone has them. Are we any better - look at the players, ages, past performances, skills, etc. That will, hopefully, give us hope.

 

The team crapped out last year for a multitude of reasons.

 

Injuries were one. Hardy, Ohka, Sheets, Koskie, Wise. However, all these guys have had injuries in the recent past, so that it happened, isn't overwhelming. The team wasn't as prepared as they could have been for the injuries when they arrived.

 

Another reason is the Brewers have put their trust in 'surprise' guys -- guys who have never done well anywhere else, come here, done decent (or at times, really well). We then count on them to produce at the same level. Brady Clark, Turnbow are examples. Pods is another. Or even Wes Helms. Guys who haven't succeeded at other places, but suddenly blossom here. Sometimes that's legit, but we need to be wary. We sunk a lot money in many of these types, only to see them falter for a variety of reasons. Often, these aren't guys with the best skills in the world. We count on these guys to produce again like they managed to do that one time, and we lose. Tbow is not an example of this - he's obviously got some talent, but harnessing it is different. Pods, Clark and other like them have limited skills. We also tend to grasp for straws and throw a bunch of these types against the wall and hope for the best - Mabeus, Winkelasas, Fernandez, etc.

 

Next, the team wasn't ready for the injuries/failures. We didn't have adequete infield depth. Our bullpen was suspect. I don't think we could have predicted the depth of Tbow's meltdown, but was anyone really expecting much out of a 30some year old knuckleballer? Or Winkelasas? Or the other revolving retread pitchers?

 

Finally, the team exercised poor judgement on the handling of pitchers - at least in my opinion. Too many guys were jerked around. Eveland, Hendrickson, Jackson, etc. -- all these guys seemed to be on the short leash. I realize the team wanted to win, but some of them - especially Eveland - had little to prove in AAA. If that's the case, let them pitch. Let them learn. Take the lumps that come with it. But don't make them wonder if one bad outing is going to put you on the bus back to Nashville. If the team doesn't think the guy is a major league player, then that's a different story. But if Eveland had been given the ball and told not to worry, perhaps by mid season he'd have been a solid contributor.

 

Perhaps I'm wrong on this last point. I just think patience with pitchers - especially ones that have done well in the minors, and have superior skills (such as Eveland, Carlos V, Yo, Zack Jackson). You give them a job, let them know what to expect, and give them time to mature. I think you're better off in the long run for it.

 

I'm rambling and ranting.

 

All in all, the team CAN do better. Why?

 

Young, talented players usually improve. Weeks, Fielder, Hardy, Hall, Hart, Bush, Cappellan, et al can grow, can improve.

 

You're not relying on the extra OF and surprises to start for you. No Clarks, no Pods, etc. Koskie goes down, you have a guy like Braun ready. Starting pitcher is needed, we have Eveland step in, or Yo, or whomever. Not Winksalas or other hasbeens.

 

You prepare for the injuries. You have players ready to step in, unlike last year.

 

You handle players better. Don't jerk around the pitchers.

 

It's everything -- players maturing, not relying on lesser talented players, handling guys better, being prepared for the injuries, etc. That will make us better, even with smaller changes to the roster.

[Crewin06]

I hate this assumption that Melvin didn't plan.

 

Especially when they bring up the infield.

 

How Do you plan any better than having an all-star sub. And maybe the best 6th infielder in the majors.

 

NOBODY CAN PLAN FOR THREE OF YOUR STARTING INFIELDERS TO GET INJURED.

 

It's impossible.

 

Adequate Depth. How Many infields are as deep as the Brewers.

 

Their sub ended up being the best hitting Shortstop in the league. Probably the best all around Short stop and we had the guy on the bench. Our 6th infielder hit .320 on the season.

 

And people complain about depth.

 

You can usually only keep 6 infielders on your team.

 

You want to talk about giving eveland a chance?? All I have to say is 5 starts, 9 appearances, 27 innings, 8.1 ERA. If he had around a 6 ERA I could see giving him a longer leash. But 25 earned runs in 27 innings means you need more seasoning.

 

Personally I don't know how the bottom could have fallen out any worse than it did this year. With the exception of Hall, Capuano, Bush, Rillo, and Prince everybody underperformed this year. I guess you could throw Hart and Rivera in there for players not underperforming but that is about it.

[kwelak21]

I like the idea of trading davis for burrell and then jenkins for garcia(white sox). It takes care of two of the problems that we have. I'm sure the trades wouldn't be straight up, but that would be for melvin to figure out. Then maybe even a signing of Schmidt. Well I guess I can dream. I certainly think are team is much better if this would happen

 

Weeks 2B

Hardy SS

Burrell LF

Fielder 1B

Hall CF

Koskie 3B

Hart RF

Miller C

 

Sheets

Schmidt

Capuano

Garcia

Bush

 

Then if one of our pitchers do get hurt, which most likely will happen, we have plenty of answers in the minors. I would hope that at least one would be able to step up in Villy, Jackson, Yo, Dana.

[reillymcshane]

I

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hate this assumption that Melvin didn't plan.

 

Especially when they bring up the infield.

 

How Do you plan any better than having an all-star sub. And maybe the best 6th infielder in the majors.

 

NOBODY CAN PLAN FOR THREE OF YOUR STARTING INFIELDERS TO GET INJURED.

 

It's impossible.

 

Adequate Depth. How Many infields are as deep as the Brewers.

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Your point on Hall is understood, but that we reverted to Barnwell, we had Cirillo at SS for several games, and ultimately, had to trade for two infielders, exposed a weakness. A weakness that could have been predicted, since your 3B had a history of injuries, your second baseman was coming off surgery, your SS was less than two years coming off surgery, and your back up 3B had missed a couple of months the year before.

 

As you pointed out, they were wise to have Hall ready. And, as we both pointed out, there were lots of injuries last year. It was not the only reason for the team's failure, however. But a big element.

 

The point of my post was that we can do better next year - without tons of changes - simply because we probably won't have as many injuries, we have more talented players, etc.

 

Also, Melvin has a limited budget. I may think he was unprepared last year with depth, but I also know his budget limits his options. It's something we will always have to face.

 

 

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You want to talk about giving eveland a chance?? All I have to say is 5 starts, 9 appearances, 27 innings, 8.1 ERA. If he had around a 6 ERA I could see giving him a longer leash. But 25 earned runs in 27 innings means you need more seasoning.

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Watching Eveland (which wasn't a ton, since he only got in 27 innings), he looked scared to make mistakes. It's that look players have of failing, instead of just trying to do what they do well, and letting the chips fall. The merry-go-round of relievers was frustrating to fans, but if you're one of those players, it's got to be maddening. Just my opinion.

 

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Personally I don't know how the bottom could have fallen out any worse than it did this year. With the exception of Hall, Capuano, Bush, Rillo, and Prince everybody underperformed this year. I guess you could throw Hart and Rivera in there for players not underperforming but that is about it.

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Again, I think we agreed on this. We had lots go wrong last year. Hopefully, we can correct those issues for 2007.

[monty57]

Watching Eveland (which wasn't a ton, since he only got in 27 innings), he looked scared to make mistakes. It's that look players have of failing, instead of just trying to do what they do well, and letting the chips fall. The merry-go-round of relievers was frustrating to fans, but if you're one of those players, it's got to be maddening. Just my opinion.

 

I do agree, but I'd guess that Eveland and the others were probably more scared of the hitters than they were of being yanked. What I like most about Carlos V. is that when he came up, he wasn't intimidated and scared to pitch. He went after hitters, and you could see in his demeanor what the other AAA guys were lacking. It's that attitude thing that many on this board are unable to admit makes a difference. Some of the other pitchers have better "stuff," and may well have better careers, but it certainly didn't show this year.

 

In Yost/Melvin's defense, the Brewers were playing for a playoff spot this year and already had an exhausted bullpen, so they really didn't have the luxury of letting someone get repeatedly whacked around. They had to try someone else, which they did until they unearthed Carlos. Had they stuck with Eveland, Carlos may never have gotten his chance, and he certainly wouldn't be a top-runner for the rotation next year.

 

As for being prepared for injuries, I'd say they were as prepared as their budget would allow. The Brewers aren't going to be able to afford to keep starting-quality backups at many (if any) positions. They can handle some injuries, but not the quantity they had this season. I'd argue that even a team with the Yankees' payroll would have a hard time keeping enough depth to make up for the losses the Brewers suffered this season. The Brewers should, however, be more prepared this coming season simply due to the fact that their prospects (including the aforementioned pitchers) are one year closer.

 

I do agree that the Brewers (at least on paper) look to improve next season even if they don't make any moves, although I'm sure we'd both agree that that's not going to happen. Probably 5-6 of those "8 outfielders better than Macgruder" will be moved. If in moving them, we can end up with someone like Burrell, I won't be disappointed (that is, after all, what this thread started out discussing).http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

One last point, as far as trading Davis to get Burrell (vs. trading Jenkins), I'd only consider this if we were certain we were bringing in someone of equal or better value for the rotation (Schmidt, Buerhle-?sp, Ohka, Suppan, etc) to replace him. There is no reason to add a 9th outfielder at the expense of one of your top 5 pitchers, and after seeing them this season, I'm scared to death of starting two of them in the opening day rotation next season.

[sbrylski]

One last point, as far as trading Davis to get Burrell (vs. trading Jenkins)

 

That would be a overpayment on our part, I think. Davis still has a lot of value, while Burrell does not have to much with his contract.

[JohnBriggs12]

reillymcshane,

 

You make a great point about young pitchers getting jerked around. This has been a disturbing trend with Yost. It seems ever since he's been here, he seems to have more patience with scrap heap guys than guys who have potential but lack experience. A few years ago, he jerked around Obermueller (in the rotation, in the pen, skip two starts, etc) so much that he seemed to end up a mental wreck.

 

You pointed out Eveland as well. Eveland has better stuff than Capuano. But Yost treated his every appearance as if it was a tryout.

 

Even now they are jerking around Villanueva. Villanueva pitched over 50 quality innings, beat the soon to be World Champs twice and they still act like they are not sure if he's worthy of a rotation spot for 07. Compare that with Victor Santos from 04. He was a scrap heap guy who had a nice spring then pitched well for a couple outings. That secured him a rotation spot for another year plus.

[Team Canada]

beat the soon to be World Champs twice

 

I like CV a lot, but he happened to beat a .500 team twice? Who cares?

[splitterpfj]

Someone help me out here....

 

Burrell is a fairly stonefooted LF, who's only other real option defensively is 1B, where the Phillies have Ryan Howard.

 

The Phils are aggressively pursuing Carlos Lee to play LF and hit behind Howard, Burrell has a no trade clause and thus far hasn't been cooperative with Philly management.

 

Does this make any sense?

 

If the Phils do land Carlos, what's up with Burrell?