Braddock in 2010 Reliever or Starter? Latest -- Macha Impressed

[nate82]

From Adam McCalvy's article from yesterday he said this in the article:

 

Ps John Axford, Josh Butler and Zach Braddock: Axford notched the save in Milwaukee's season finale and could conceivably begin the year in Milwaukee's bullpen. Butler and Braddock will probably go to the Minors for more seasoning but could be options as the season progresses. Braddock is especially intriguing. He's left-handed with a live arm, and he's coming off a strong showing in the Arizona Fall League.

"I can't really tell you when he will be an option [for the big leagues], but in a perfect world you probably would want him to go to Double-A for at least half the year to continue his development," Ash said. "He definitely has the arm and the 'stuff' to make it up here. It's just a matter of development. There's also the matter of do you develop him as a starter or do you develop him for the bullpen? That can play a role in his movement."

 

So it looks as though the Brewers have not yet decided on if Braddock is going to be a reliever or a starter. I hope the Brewers make him a starter since I believe he has more value to the Brewers as a starter than as a reliever. It is interesting that the Brewers really haven't decided on Braddock being a starter or a reliever yet. Also interesting that Axford is going to get a chance at a spot in the bullpen.

[battlekow]

Heh, I just read that a minute ago and came here to see if it was being discussed. Yeah, I think it's a good sign that they're leaving the door open for him to return to starting.

[twobrewers]

Very exciting news. I had assumed he role in the bullpen was pretty well written in stone.

[YoungGeezy]

As of right now I like the idea of him being in the pen and possibly our future closer better. Thats just my opinion. He is so dominating as a reliever when hitters only get to see him once. Eighter way I have no problem and will be happy with what they decide. If they feel is arm is strong enough and he is in good enough condition to go 6-7 innings an outting, awesome! If not, he is an absolutely nasty pitcher and beside for a very few outtings this season and one in the fall he is pure dominate as a reliever. It really seems like a win-win senario to me.

 

[LouisEly]

An even better left-handed Ramiro Mendoza who can give you 100 IP out of the bullpen is almost as valuable as a starter. Obviously we would like to see him start, but if a guy like him who can be a dominant middle reliever can give you a 2-inning bridge from your starter to your setup man and allow you to lift your starter after 5 innings or before he can get in trouble in the 6th can be very valuable.

 

Don't see why people are surprised by Axford given what he did at AAA/majors last year.

[battlekow]

Why would you ever expect Braddock to pitch 100 innings out of the bullpen?

[YoungGeezy]

Why would you ever expect Braddock to pitch 100 innings out of the bullpen?

 

exactly what I was thinking, that is a HUGE workload for a RP. If they felt that comfortable with his arm to do that I'd have to believe they would have him as a starter. But I do agree with the point that he could be just a valuable coming out of the pen but I see it as more of a closer that could give you the 8th and 9th if needed. That is huge if he could be the shutdown guy after Hoffman retires.

 

As for Axford, I know I'm not surprised by him at all. I'm really looking forward to see what he can do next season. I also am really going to keep a eye on Fiers and Wooten this season because they both could make it up by September next season. (Fiers I think will continue to rise fast like Axford did last year if he pitches anything like he did last year) Plus Aguilar if he gets his act together.

[thebruce44]

Pitching a high amount out of the bullpen is probably even more stressful on a young arm than being a starter with a regular rotation.

[paul253]

With how dominant he has shown he can be and how terrible this organization has been at producing starting pitchers, I think you have to try him as a starter first. He has shown what he can do as a reliever and he can always be moved back if things don't work out. I say put him in Huntsville as a starter and restrict his pitch count for the year, just to make sure he is healthy. If he's going to be in the bullpen, I don't see why he should have to go back to Huntsville after the numbers he put up there last season.

[igor67]

I liken this to going for the TD or kicking the FG. Having gotten so little seemingly out of their power arms the last few years because of injury, it's hard not to seriously consider trying to get them up to the big leagues and contributing something. Chad Fox (yes I know not a farmhand) had way more value then JM Gold.

[TooLiveBrew]

The TD/FG concept is an interesting analogy, but I don't want to see the Brewers get conservative in that sense with young arms until they have to (injury, ceiling, etc.)... or in other words, not until it's '4th down' http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

I always find the TINSTAAPP philosophy interesting ("there is no such thing as a pitching prospect"). Of course it's a bit overstated, but interesting nonetheless imo.

 

'03 Joe Sheehan article for Baseball Prospectus

[colbyjack]

I have been informed that Zach has been invited to participate in MLB's Baseball Player Development workshop in Washington DC early in 2010. I'm sure Mass or someone else will post the details to this once they come available, but this is the event in which young prospects on the cusp of becoming big-leaguers attend to learn how to properly speak to the media, how to tip in restaurants and hotels, which fork to use at a fancy restaurant to dip into the shrimp cocktail, etc. It's not that surprising since many felt Braddock may have made his MLB debut late last season had he stayed healthy, but it is another reason to be excited about his possible debut in 2010.

 

I was also told that he has been invited to the big-league camp in spring training. Yet another sign that his MLB debut is not that far away.

 

As far as his development as a starter vs. a reliever, he hasn't been able to stay healthy when used in longer stints, but he has committed himself to conditioning, and his arm problems from a year ago were largely felt to have to do with nerve damage (short explanation) rather than structural damage. The Brewers haven't really done this with any other pitchers recently, maybe Carlos Villanueva, but I would kind of like to see him continued to be groomed as a short-inning reliever, and once he proves himself to be healthy, re-investigate the possibility of moving him back to the starting rotation.

 

I know the Astros, Cardinals and Twins have been known to handle their young pitchers like this, although those pitchers were groomed almost exclusively as starter in the minors. I don't really care at this point how he is developed, I just want to see him pitching regularly and without any further set-backs, as his talent is evident. I was a little surprised to see that he didn't get more mention from BA's top prospect list from the AFL, although they only went 10 deep (and Lucroy only got an honorable mention).

[wishicouldhit]

I'm assuming braddock's future will be in the bullpen until he reaches the majors. Come 2013, if he proves that he can stay healthy maybe they will stretch him out to become a starter.

[CheezWizHed]

...but I would kind of like to see him continued to be groomed as a short-inning reliever, and once he proves himself to be healthy, re-investigate the possibility of moving him back to the starting rotation.

 

I know the Astros, Cardinals and Twins have been known to handle their young pitchers like this....

Yes, I agree completely: Johan Santana

[HiAndTight]

Pitching a high amount out of the bullpen is probably even more stressful on a young arm than being a starter with a regular rotation.

 

I suppose it's how you manage it, but I can agree with that statement in general.

 

It can be especially bad if you're getting your young relievers up multiple times a game as it seems so many pitchers do.

 

That's why I almost like a more regimented routine. If you have a Carlos Marmol, I understand he's the guy you bring in to put out the fires, but I don't like getting him up in the 6th if the starter walks a guy, sitting him back down, getting him up in the 7th....8th....

 

That will happen from time to time, but it shouldn't be something you do daily.

 

Now if you have a kid like Braddock who you're almost going to use as a sorta MR/Long man and bring him in for 2-3 innings every 3 days or so, that might not be as tough on his arm.

 

 

Either way though, as much as I love the kid, Im not even so sure he can hold up even if he's just a one inning a game reliever and throws 75 Innings. He hasn't really shown he can make it through a season in any fashion.

 

I'll also add I never would have thought Parra would be able to pitch the innings he's pitched.

[trwi7]

Figured this was as good a place as any to mention this tidbit from TH.

 

The Brewers continue to look at other relief pitchers. Asked if they might get a second lefty in the bullpen to share that duty with Mitch Stetter, Macha mentioned Brewers prospect Zach Braddock, who pitched well in the Arizona Fall League except for his last outing.

[clancyphile]

Figured this was as good a place as any to mention this tidbit from TH.

 

The Brewers continue to look at other relief pitchers. Asked if they might get a second lefty in the bullpen to share that duty with Mitch Stetter, Macha mentioned Brewers prospect Zach Braddock, who pitched well in the Arizona Fall League except for his last outing.

Zach Braddock as a 2010 version of Dan Plesac, circa 1986-1989?

[HiAndTight]

Look at Brian Shouse, Mitch Stetter, Joe Biemel and countless others.

 

 

While I'm not trying to minimize the difficulty of getting big league lefties out, the fact of the matter is, there are a number of guys available ever year who can do just that.

 

There are fewer lefties who can get right handers out as well, but at the end of the day it's far, far easier to find those types of pitchers than to find potential front line legit #2 starting pitchers(or a #1 which is well within Braddock's grasp).

 

I just think you have to keep a kid like Zach Braddock as a starter until he's proven he cannot do it. The same goes for the Mark Rogers of the world, the Peralta's, Heckathorn's, etc....etc...etc...

 

 

So if we do bring Braddock up as a reliever this year, and I'd rather leave him in AA to develop, BUT if they do, I hope they at least plan on handling him like Santana and move him back after he's spent a year in the pen.

[wvpowerblkwel]

I think that some day, Braddock stays healthy like many of you aren't sure about, he can be an ace. But the guy is 22 years old, had TJ in high school, has not had a sustained period of good health since he started his progression up the ladder, so what's wrong with letting him be a long arm out of the bullpen and be a very dominant bridge to a closer? I'm not saying forever, but with the exception of Yo, the Brewers have had some very nice young arms pass through the prospect farm, and not really looked at them as guys that need a "big league trial". They traded away, Thatcher, Inman, Bryson for example and those guys could have been good bullpen help....heck, Thatcher has been for a couple years on and off with the Padres (although Inman is a starter). Please dont pick my comments apart on this, I'm just trying to say Zach, when he is on is A. dominant B. only 22 years old and C. deserving of a big league shot after the AFL...so why not use him as a pen guy, when he throws 100 innings, think about moving him back to the rotation? Jonathan Lucroy's comment in an article I read earlier about Braddock throwing an "invisiball" is one I have heard personally from several guys that have pitched with him. He is all arms and legs, and very hard to pick up the ball on...I say bring him up and lets see what hes got if he has a good spring!!

[wishicouldhit]

HiAndTight wrote:

 

There are fewer lefties who can get right handers out as well, but at the end of the day it's far, far easier to find those types of pitchers than to find potential front line legit #2 starting pitchers(or a #1 which is well within Braddock's grasp).

Im sure 100% of the brewer fans on here agree that an above average starter will have more value than the best LOOGY in MLB. The problem with Braddock is his health, I would rather him make it to the big leagues and pitch for years than worry about his overall value. If he can prove that he can stay healthy, than he can move into the rotation.

[aintbize]

Do you guys realize how many pitchers go through this maturation process of pushing yourself to be better after an injury and experience. Braddock has come through a HS program that has taken on successful JC's noted for developing talent. Only by playing fundamentals and beating these teams, been under pressure in "world series" championship games and strives to win the game at all costs develops the mettle of kids like Braddock.

 

He has to grow and mature, but he's has the potential to be a tough starter or a sick competitor coming out of the bullpen. Either way, this crap about his health is way overblown...take a look at any teams injuries and keep things in perspective.

 

Tommy John, was substantially effective after his "Tommy John" surgery, no?

[TheCrew07]

Effective yes, healthy no. He's never pitched more than a 100 innings in a season, regardless of why... relax a little bit.

[HiAndTight]

Do you guys realize how many pitchers go through this maturation process of pushing yourself to be better after an injury and experience. Braddock has come through a HS program that has taken on successful JC's noted for developing talent. Only by playing fundamentals and beating these teams, been under pressure in "world series" championship games and strives to win the game at all costs develops the mettle of kids like Braddock.

 

He has to grow and mature, but he's has the potential to be a tough starter or a sick competitor coming out of the bullpen. Either way, this crap about his health is way overblown...take a look at any teams injuries and keep things in perspective.

 

Tommy John, was substantially effective after his "Tommy John" surgery, no?

With respect, I don't agree in any way that concerns about his health are overblown. I, as can most Brewers fans, can name a plethora of talented future "aces" who have fallen by the wayside because they could not stay healthy, and frankly, most had fewer injury concerns up to the point that Mr. Braddock is at currently than he has had.

 

 

And Tommy John was effective, however there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of minor leaguers with good arms who were not.

 

So while I think everyone here loves the talent that Zach has, and everyone here hopes and believes he can be a big time pitcher for us, you absolutely have to take into account his injury concerns when discussing what he will do in the future.

 

 

Bottom line, Braddock is the type of guy who could end up leading the Brewers rotation into a post-season series, he is the type of guy who could finish out a post-season series, or anything in between. But I don't believe for a second we're "overblowing" his injury concerns. They're pretty obvious.......though I would LOVE nothing more than to come back in 2-3 years and say, "yup, we were way over blowing it, he's proven to be completely durable". In fact, I don't think I've ever hoped to be wrong so badly!

[thebruce44]

He is one pitch away from not being a prospect, just like every other pitcher his age in the Brewers organization and throughout baseball.

 

If he can be brought along slowly as a starter, I don't know that is any worse on his arm then being brought along as a reliever (where I think he would be rushed up to the majors).

[HiAndTight]

He is one pitch away from not being a prospect, just like every other pitcher his age in the Brewers organization and throughout baseball.

 

If he can be brought along slowly as a starter, I don't know that is any worse on his arm then being brought along as a reliever (where I think he would be rushed up to the majors).

Given his production and his stuff, I think a pretty strong argument could be made that if they moved him up after a strong spring that he'd deserve such a promotion.

 

In other words, I don't think if they brought him up as a reliever he be being rushed at all.

 

But yes, you are correct. The problem with pitching in baseball is that you get all these talented young arms throwing in the mid 90's, and just such a tiny fraction of them ever pan out, injuries being the single largest factor in their inability to reach the big leagues.

 

I think Brewers fans have suffered through the JM's, and the Neugy's, and the whole list on and on....even to lesser degrees(in that they weren't prospects) Nieves and Higura.