The case for keeping 3 catchers including Rivera

[JohnBriggs12]

Up front I make no bones about my affinity for Rivera. It goes way back to 2006, when he was brought up after the release of Bad Chad and continued in the spring of 08 when most on here assumed Eric Munson or JD Closser (remember them?) would win the backup catcher job and I was posting that no, Rivera deserved the job.

 

There's been a lot of assumptions here and elsewhere that the signing of Zaun is the end of Rivera as a Brewer. To quote Lee Corso, "Not so fast".

 

One assumption is that since Rivera is arby-eligible, he is too costly to keep. Two things to consider if this is what you believe: Do you think Rivera's agent is dumb enough to price his guy out of the league? Unless they know other teams are sincerely interested in his services, he's still has very little salary leverage. So it's quite possible that the Brewers could get him under contract before arbitration for a very modest raise and even if it did go as far as exchanging numbers, Rivera's not likely to ask for an amount that will assure he doesn't have a major league job.

 

The other assumption is well, they have plenty of other options now behind the plate. As far as numbers go, this is true. But let's look at the makeup of the candidates. Zaun is the only guy assured of a job. Zaun is a switch hitter who has played mostly against righthanders. Potential backups are lefty swinging inexperienced Kottaras, 2 rookies in Lucroy and Salome, and Rivera. All reports are Salome is not ready so let's eliminate him. Kottaras might make sense though his inability to hit lefthanders limits him. Lucroy makes sense if the Brewers gave him enough starts that he was developing but they might want to wait a couple months to defer his arby eligibilty. But all these guys have one thing in common. None has ever caught this Brewer pitching staff. Rivera has.

 

The other thing to consider is as of now who exactly is the right handed bench bat that can come up late in a game to face a lefty reliever? Answer: There is none unless you consider Heether but didn't the Brewers get burned by trying to use an untested guy (Nelson) in a tough role last year? All the other bench candidates hit lefthanded. On the other hand there is Rivera, a veteran that has shown that he's a productive hitter even with long periods of inactivity.

 

Of course as a lone backup, Rivera's usefulness as a bench bat is very limited. But as a 3rd catcher, now he can be used in a PH role. Not only that, he can play 1B too if Fielder tweaked something. But the real key is having a 3rd catcher allows the manager to the flexibility to double switch the catcher position. That means fewer pitching changes and less stress on the bullpen.

 

So I propose that for now at least Rivera be kept at least until they go out and get a better RH bench bat.

[pingman]

I think it's a damn fine idea to keep 3 catchers....

 

It gives the manager flexibility to pinch hit or pinch run....there were many times in past couple of years where I would of liked to have seen Rivera as a pinch hitter but the manager couldn't do so because he was the only catcher on the bench

[ewizabeff]

Well, you've converted me with this post (with the roster as it stands). I don't have anything against Rivera, but I also didn't consider the 3 catchers option. However, how do you think he would feel about being "demoted" from back-up catcher to 3rd catcher? He'd probably end up catching even less games than he did this year.

[bcf5575]

I dont like this at all. This is like the packers keeping 3 fb's on their roster all year, it doenst make any sense. it would handcuff moves late in the game because you are using a bench spot on a guy that can only pitch hit.

 

if we strictly want a rh bat off the bench, I would like to think that we can come up with something better than rivera for $1+.

 

I would prefer to see Zaun and a rookie (let Lucroy and Salome battle it out in ST) on the big league team. Let Zaun catch 100 games, the rookie 62.

The rookie that loses out and Kottaras catch in AAA.

[Invader3K]

If the pitching is anything like last year (and hopefully it won't be), they won't have room for an extra catcher because they're going to need a full bullpen.

[Ennder]

It wouldn't bother me at all. It really woudn't be a full season of 3 C on the roster either. At the start of the year Lucroy would likely be in the minors with 2 C on the roster since there are extra days off etc. In the middle of the season you have interleague games so Rivera can play some 1B and let Fielder DH some. At the end of the season the roster expands and there is plenty of room. At some point in the middle of the season Zaun is likely to get banged up and miss some time given his history and when that happened it would only be 2 as well.

[sveumrules]

rivera's .688 career OPS would play great at first base. but then again 2010 is only gonna be his age 33 season so there's still room to improve.

 

there's a reason why mike rivera has been around as long as he has and still has yet to accumulate a single seasons worth of plate appearances over his entire career.

[Invader3K]

Did you know Prince Fielder currently holds the longest consecutive starts streak in the Majors? Yeah, anyone could get hurt or need a day off at some point, but I'm not going to fret on who they have to slide in to play first.

[Ennder]

Fielder is going to DH a couple games and whatever player fills in for him at 1B isn't likely to be much more than a bench type. Don't really see the issue with it being Rivera.

[Invader3K]

The issue with Rivera is that his bat really isn't that great and his defense just seems to be average from what we've seen. If they can save half a million or so by having Lucroy or someone back up Zaun, they should go that route. Besides, they probably won't have roster room for a third catcher because they will need as many pitchers as possible.

[DuWayne Steurer]

There's nothing Rivera does that couldn't be done by someone who makes minimum wage. This seems like keeping him just to keep him.

 

As far as backing up first base goes, if Prince is out for any significant amount of time, we're screwed anyways. And I don't think Rivera's going to be any better at first base than say Casey McGehee, Mat Gamel, or Corey Hart, if it came right down to it.

[rluzinski]

2010 Chone Projection:

 

Rivera: .230 / .294 / .377

 

http://www.baseballprojection.com/2010/MIL2010.htm

 

This is not the kind of hitter I want pinch hitting or filling in at 1B. This also illustrates why backup catchers aren't generally used in that role.

[Ennder]

I think bring up Lucroy to sit him on the bench is a waste as well though so I don't know that we do have cheaper options. I'd much rather go with Rivera as the backup and bring up Lucroy mid season to get his feet wet after playing full time in AAA for a couple months. I'm really fine with whatever they do but I don't think JB12's idea is a bad one.

[bcf5575]

What do you do with Salome if Lucroy is at AAA? Doesnt make much sense for those guys to be playing every other day in AAA. I would rather have one of them playing 2 out of every 5 games with the brewers and the other guy playing 75%+ of the time in AAA. Plus they are cheap and better players than Rivera!

[endaround]

Heether projects better than Rivera and can actually play the field. And McGehee could easily find himself back on the bench. Kottaras can backup Zaun if they want Lucroy in AAA. Rivera just doesn't hit well enough to turn him into basically a bench DH.

[davego]

If the manager will do things such as use one of the catchers to PH, or PH or a cathcer as needed...as well as PR; et al...then count me in.

[Invader3K]

If the manager will do things such as use one of the catchers to PH, or PH or a cathcer as needed...as well as PR; et al...then count me in.

Evidence says that Macha won't do that though.

[Funketown]

I don't have a problem with having three catchers on the roster, but I don't see the advantage to having three of Lucroy, Zaun, Kottaras, and Rivera on the roster. I guess for the most part I just don't think Rivera swings a bat well enough to justify giving him pinch hit plate appearances, and most definitely does not hit well enough to give opportunities at first base. If he were the Brewers' best option as a RH bench bat, then I could understand having him as a third catcher, but he isn't. I'm not a huge Adam Heether fan like some are, but his numbers in AAA are much better than Rivera's, and his MLB equivalencies are far better than Rivera's major league numbers.

 

As for the argument of having a 3rd catcher to give the team flexibility, I guess I don't buy it for teams who have an emergency catcher. Consider the situations where the Brewers either pinch hit or pinch run for Zaun. Say this happens 25 times over the course of the season (yes, I am being generous). Assume Lucroy subs in for him at catcher. These situations would probably add up to 100 or so innings of Lucroy subbing, without an official catcher backing him up. If Lucroy were to get hurt, and the Brewers were to bring in McGehee as emergency catcher, he would see what, 3 innings at most per time Lucroy got hurt? By the next game, they could have Rivera up from Nashville anyways.

[jhart05]

If one of their catchers was named Mauer, and they were an AL team, I could see it.

[dadofandrew]

His career OPS versus LHP is 650ish...Lucroy or almost any pedestrian RH C can do that for $500K, and may have other skills as well.

 

With McGehee available as an emergency backstop, I see absolutely no reason to have 40% of the bench filled with guys that get out 70% of the time.

 

One thought is Mike Redmond...he's always hit LHP well, but he's also old.

[davego]

I just don't want the 'Crew to approach games where they just give up a roster spot on the bench and say "well we can't use our back-up catcher..."

[Baldkin]

A 13th pitcher (maybe a second LOOGY?) would seem to be way more valuable than a 3rd catcher and the 15 or so AB's he may get during the year.

 

At least, from my point of view.

[yoshii8]

I think there is no way that we carry 3 catchers next season, especially w/ Mcgehee and his extensive catching experience on the roster. I'd rather just non-tender Rivera and give the backup job to Kotteras or Salome.

[Patrick425]

sveumrules[/b]]rivera's .688 career OPS would play great at first base. but then again 2010 is only gonna be his age 33 season so there's still room to improve.

I'm not sure I understand this statement. I would insert the word "not" betweeen "would" and "play". Also "only" 33? Player's generally peak between 27 and 33. They usually don't improve after this age period without artificial help.

 

Not a big fan of Rivera or keeping 3 catchers.

[DuWayne Steurer]

sveumrules[/b]]rivera's .688 career OPS would play great at first base. but then again 2010 is only gonna be his age 33 season so there's still room to improve.

I'm not sure I understand this statement. I would insert the word "not" betweeen "would" and "play". Also "only" 33? Player's generally peak between 27 and 33. They usually don't improve after this age period without artificial help.

 

Not a big fan of Rivera or keeping 3 catchers.

I'm guessing he was being sarcastic.