Josh Johnson - contract negotiations at an "impasse"

[HiAndTight]

Also Salome is better than Lucroy at least offensively he is. This year being an injury year I wouldn't be surprised if Salome has a better year next year than Lucroy does offensively. The only aspect that Lucroy is better than Salome at is his defense. I don't think the Marlins would really want Lucroy and they would rather have Salome over Lucroy because of the offensive difference.

 

First of all, you say "the only aspect Lucroy is better than Salome at is his defense".

 

Well, he's a catcher. That's a pretty big deal. It's like saying the only pitch one reliever throws better is a fastball. Well...that's the most important part or a reliever as defense is the most important part of a catcher.

 

What's more, it's most certainly debatable that Salome is a better offensive prospect. Salome's got a nice stick, but his inability to draw walks is going to hurt him early in his career whereas Lucroy has a chance to at least be productive early on offensively.

 

 

Salome is still the better prospect over Lucroy it is just that Lucroy is probably a more sure thing than Salome is to stick at catcher.

 

 

Well, he's not according to any of the prospect lists I've seen this off-season. Also, if Lucroy doesn't stick at catcher(which I think we all assume he will) he could move. Where are you going to move a 5'7 stocky catcher? 2nd base? 1st base would be terrible. LF? The answer is AAA. Lucroy is more of a sure thing because he's a well rounded catcher. Salome has far more holes in his game.

[crewcrazy]

Latest from Rotoworld

 

Doesn't really surprise me. They don't have to trade him now and probably won't until they absolutely have to, unless someone comes along and offers them a Beckett-like deal. I don't think the Brewers have the firepower to pull a deal like that off right now, but it won't stop me from dreaming (and trying to put together a deal in OOTP). http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PeaveyFury]

Well, that can either be taken at face value, or as the typical "I'm not motivated to trade Lyle Overbay" GM-speak that comes in situations like this.

[Hate those Rodents]

It makes no sense to trade him. That's precisely why I've spared you guys of my posts in this thread. It's not even worth discussing. We should have far more posts in the Edwin Jackson thread, but that ones been a few days.

[PeaveyFury]

It's not even worth discussing.

 

Thanks for clarifying that, we should probably just go ahead and lock this thread, then.

[nate82]

Well, he's not according to any of the prospect lists I've seen this off-season. Also, if Lucroy doesn't stick at catcher(which I think we all assume he will) he could move. Where are you going to move a 5'7 stocky catcher? 2nd base? 1st base would be terrible. LF? The answer is AAA. Lucroy is more of a sure thing because he's a well rounded catcher. Salome has far more holes in his game.

Salome is a better hitter and is more athletic than Lucroy is. By far Salome has the highest potential. If you are talking about Baseball America ranking Salome rather low it is because they don't really like short players and they always do that. Just look at Gindl for another example he was one of the top players in his league but yet he isn't even in the top 10 in their rankings.

 

Salome may not be as good as Lucroy defensively it doesn't make him a horrible catcher defensively either. Salome's big question mark is his defense compared to his offense which is a nearly sure thing. If the Brewers were in the AL or there was a DH rule in the NL Salome would have been on the team this last season as the DH and backup catcher.

 

If Lucroy doesn't stick at catcher offensively he is not that good where he would be a viable option in a corner OF or at a corner IF spot. Although Salome if the Brewers would move him his offense would be good enough at almost any spot. Salome is still the better prospect it doesn't really matter what the lists say. Salome is the better offensive catcher and his defense although questionable is probably still good enough for him to stay there.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I'm not so sure Gamel's value is as high as everyone thinks. He came up, went back down and really struggled. I'm sure other teams know that.

[Hate those Rodents]

It's not even worth discussing.

 

Thanks for clarifying that, we should probably just go ahead and lock this thread, then.

Good idea. We should start a Felix thread as well, since Seattle is as likely to trade him this off-season as Florida is to trading Johnson.

[804Sox]

1) lucroy is by far the better prospect than Salome right now, as others have mentioned. I don't think he can stick at catcher, and his best case offensive projection would make him an average or below average 1B. I'm notcsure what you were talking about with Lucroy moving all over the diamond, but the point is, if lucroy can stick at catcher, which he should, then he doesn't have to hit that much to be valuable.

 

2) gamel has a very high value. Everybody knows that. He's one of the best MLB- ready bats in the minors. The leagues gms won't be scared off by the SSS of his MLB debut

[trwi7]

I think you're confusing Lucroy and Salome.

[endaround]

Actually I think its Gamel and Salome. Replace Gamel with Salome in the first sentence.

[804Sox]

Actually I think its Gamel and Salome. Replace Gamel with Salome in the first sentence.

 

Exactly. Sorry. Lucroy is the better prospect than Salome

[Hate those Rodents]

I don't know for sure if Lucroy is the better prospect or not. I don't really doubt it, but I just feel Salome is much better than given credit for. We basically did these posts in the minor league forum though, but I think both will make fine full time big league catchers and I hope we don't "throw in" Salome in a trade. He should be a big catch for a team if traded.

[logan82]

Lucroy wouldn't be average at 1B. 1st basemen, especially in the NL are very good hitters. He is projected at about .710 OPS for next year. That would have made him the worst regular 1B in the NL last year. Even if he can get up to an .800 OPS that would only make him better than 3 guys last year.

 

Gamel I think will probably put up a league average OPS for a 1B, but it wouldn't be as valuable since he would have to put up a .370+ OBP and I thik he will be more in the .350-.360 range.

[ILuvDaBush]

Logan, no need to deal in absolutes. Lucroy PROBABLY wouldn't but unless you're Nostradomus, you are bereft of certainty. Nevertheless, neither Lucroy or Salome will probably see an inning of work at 1B. And even if either did, it wouldn't be for us or the Fish with Prince and Logan Morrison, respectively.

 

Also, as an aside, can you imagine the offensive production from a rotation of:

YoGa

JJ

Parra

Bush

Soup

 

Those are some decent bats....for pitchers.

[brewjihad]

Logan, if you're referring to 804sox's post, I think what he's saying is that he doesn't think Salome will stick at catcher and that he would be an average to below average 1b, so he's not as good of a prospect as Lucroy who he thinks will stick at catcher.

[Weirdos19]

Personally, I don't think Florida needs Gomez. They have Maybin. I would call Toronto, Florida, Seattle, and Detroit. Offer them Gamel, Salome, and Parra. First one to say yes to giving up their Ace gets the deal.

[BrewCrewForever]

If Gamel, Salome and a pitcher could get it done for Johnson I don't know how Doug couldn't pull the trigger on that deal.

[Hate those Rodents]

In theory Weirdos, I really like your idea. However, all teams would probably decline that deal (unless you are talking about Jackson instead of Verlander from Detroit). And I am not sure I'd want to give that package for only one year of Halladay, as I am pretty sure he'd never resign here.

[benji]

It seems that the Marlins are ready to deal.

[Hate those Rodents]

Yes, I stand corrected, though we'll see if it actually happens. I am pretty shocked and apolagize for the stance I took a couple of days ago.

[PeaveyFury]

Like I said before, the reports from earlier in the week were almost certainly GM speak.

[RyDogg66]

Keith Law speculates that 2 MLB ready players and 2 AA prospects will be needed to get Johnson. Melvin should be working this one hard.

[nate82]

Keith Law speculates that 2 MLB ready players and 2 AA prospects will be needed to get Johnson. Melvin should be working this one hard.

I wonder if Gamel, Lucroy/Salome, Gindl/Schafer, and Scarpetta/Jeffress/Anundsen. Anundsen and Jeffress would probably not be in the discussion but are the only two other starters that I could think of that would fit into what the Marlins would be looking for. That might be to much to be giving up for 2-years of Johnson but if the Brewers could sign him to an additional 2-years that would be well worth it.

[BrewCrewForever]

Keith Law speculates that 2 MLB ready players and 2 AA prospects will be needed to get Johnson. Melvin should be working this one hard.

Man I hope so, we have the prospects to give up and it wouldn't destroy the farm. And we would have Johnson for awhile yet. The thought of Gallardo/Johnson at the top of the rotation and signing Davis or Washburn as our #3 would make me very excited.