Whats is Rickie's problem? Is he hurting or confused?

[sbrylski]

He'll hit around .300, get 10-12 hrs, steals, and has average defense. Yet you rather keep Weeks!?

 

He's hit .300 just once in his career for a full season and has hit more than 10 HR just once.

 

Last season, Roberts BA/OBP/SLG/OPS was all within 5 points of his career averages, and he was 9th among qualified 2B in Runs Created per Game, to take into account SB. A little "Above average" might be a little better label, but he's no super-star himself. In fact, Weeks' partial season last year ranked better in RC/27.

 

This season Roberts is playing very well, but why should we expect that to continue when we have years of data telling us he's playing a bit above his head?

 

A healthy Weeks is Brian Roberts, but with more overall potential, especially power.

[TCSM]

I'll take someone playing "over their head" verse someone that couldnt hit the broad side of a barn. Why can't we understand the Weeks was playing over his head as well last year. Because he's a Brewers doesn't mean he'll pan out, or that they never play over their head.

 

I'll take Brian Roberts over the fact he HAS hit well unlike Weeks who hasn't and may never. Again, this is where we only see the word potential being used.

 

Another thing I want to point out is Weeks injury. We might never know if he'll ever be fully recovered. So a healthy Roberts who can actually hit is always a better option over an unhealthy Weeks.

[brewerphandog]

The point is:

 

I'm, by my own assessment an above average athlete and have been a quality baseball player. I will say this:

 

I have never replicated a swing that Prince Fielder has taken.

I have never run as fast as any Brewer spare Ben Sheets and Damien Miller.

I have never thrown a baseball harder than the 82 mph I achieved at the fast pitch at MP, and that nearly resulted in a dismembered arm.

I have never thrown a curve like any Brewer.

I have never hit a homerun in a major league park. nor could I hit anywhere near that far. 335 feet is a long, long way.

I couldn't get to 1/8th of the balls these guys get to in the infield or outfield.

 

But...I could look as bad as Weeks looks on a breaking pitch. I can't say that I could replicate anything in MLB, with that one exception.

 

I'm not naive enough to say that I'm the best athlete of this bunch, nor would I say I'm the worst, therefore I feel it is a relevant comparison. Anyone who tells you "I could throw 85" is full of it, "I could hit it out of Wrigley" is full of it...these guys are world class, even the ones we criticize.

 

But I could do what he does to a breaking pitch and that is scary as @@@@. I think it speaks to something that is very wrong with his approach and swing. I'm not building myself up, nor would I profess to be able to lace that liner into center. But as good as he can look, he defies major league logic by looking as pedestrian as an above average 37 year old man. That freaks me out. Sorry if you disagree. But there isn't anyone on this board who could do anything that a major league athlete can do, with that one exception. We can look completely befuddled versus any breaking pitch. The problem, it happens on a daily basis for him. Take that as you may.

[sbrylski]

I'll take someone playing "over their head" verse someone that couldnt hit the broad side of a barn.

 

But there is no reason to believe Roberts will continue to hit over his head.

 

Why can't we understand the Weeks was playing over his head as well last year. Because he's a Brewers doesn't mean he'll pan out, or that they never play over their head.

 

I'm a stats guy, no secret, but I'm listening to the scouts here. When they tell me a guy with great minor league stats has the potential to hit even better in the bigs, why can't I trust them a little bit. They know a heck of a lot more than I do about a baseball swing.

 

I'll take Brian Roberts over the fact he HAS hit well unlike Weeks who hasn't and may never. Again, this is where we only see the word potential being used.

 

Well, its risk verse reward. You want the guy that you know will be a little above average for you, or do you want the guy who could be even more than that, but might never be more than average?

 

This risk/reward, salary, age, even things like team chemistry (best friends with Fielder) all accounted for, I'm fine with sticking by Weeks for longer than 3 months post-surgery.

 

Another thing I want to point out is Weeks injury. We might never know if he'll ever be fully recovered. So a healthy Roberts who can actually hit is always a better option over an unhealthy Weeks.

 

I too think Weeks' star has fallen a notch. Even then, he still have the "potential" according to both scouts and stats to be much better than Roberts. Again, its risk verse reward.

[endaround]

Brian Roberts is 30 and is currently having his second good season ever. He is as likely as anyone to turn into the next Micheal Young.

[TooLiveBrew]

Giving up on Weeks now is just as unwise as giving up on JJ was last year. I stuck up for JJ then, because we'd seen what he's capable of doing when playing well. Same with Weeks. To act like he suddenly has become incapable of slugging the ball for the rest of his career is ridiculous. His defense has improved mightily, and I'd be shocked if Rickie wasn't back & slugging by the end of this year or next.

 

For now, he's our 8-hole hitter, and the only way he can go at this point is up - which I'm confident in him doing, because I know what a full-strength Rickie Weeks can do. He's shown us. Although his season/career stats may not show it, Rickie is a patient hitter with a ton of power for a 2Bman. He has fantastic speed, works his butt off, and always hustles. I have faith in him not because I 'like' him, but because the game that Weeks brings is one not easily acquired at any position, let alone 2B.

[brewerphandog]

I don't think "give up" is an option. I don't think you trade him unless you get a big time talent back, his ceiling is high everyone knows it. But in my opinion he needs to be jettisoned to AAA until he can at least look like he has a remote chance to hit off speed pitches. Right now, when he looks like John Q. Guyoffthestreet he doesn't belong in a big league lineup. Unless you get a signed form promising only to pitch him fastballs middle in. Its time to stop allowing for players to learn how to play at the major league level. I'd send him down today and see where he is in 1 month. If he has shown he can hit a steady diet of AAA breaking pitches to the tune of about .340 then he come back up, because that will drop to about .260 and that would render him above average. As it stands right now, no one is benefitting from this situation.

 

To the quesiton everyone is thinking; Graffy? Yes I would. Period.

[RU Rah Rah]

Any thoughts about the pinch-hitting of Graffy last night? Turned out to be a good move, short-term, but what does it say about Weeks that Ned apparently doesn't think he can hit a ball out of the infield in a clutch situation?

 

(Not to second guess Ned, mind you. I breathed a huge sigh of relief when Graffy stepped to the plate.)

[1992casey]

I have mixed feelings on that Rah Rah. On one hand, messing with Rickie's confidence needs to be considered.

 

On the other hand, Rickie is a professional who we have to assume would understand the move. In this case, making contact?even if the contact wasn't all that solid?was what was necessary. Graffy was probably the better option in this type of situation at this particular time.

 

phandog, site rules prohibit circumventing the cuss filter, even with @@@@.

[Kpanz20]

I loved the pinch hit last night. Ned has always been a "stick with em" kinda guy... but sometimes you need to do whats best for the team and sometimes you also may need to send a message. I think last night was both of those.

 

Theres only so much coddling he can do with the players...a little wake up call for rickie may have some benefit. Not to say he isn't trying, but stuff like last night tends to have a positive affect on a guy like Weeks I think.

 

I don't think he's the sensative type who takes offense, I think he's the type that it will make him want to bounce back just a little more.

[homer]

Weeks needs to go down to AAA and get his stroke back. This isn't 1999 or 2000 when the Brewers could afford to let a guy struggle for a month or more. They are in a playoff race and right now they are a better team with Graffy starting at 2nd everyday.

[davego]

I wonder if in the heat of we hope is a playoff push, if the 'Crew will end up being better off with Tony playing at least 50% of the time.

 

Long term I'd think almost everyone is pulling for Weeks. Short term (and Ned tipped his hand on this) the 'Crew might be better off with a little less Rickie.

 

Guess Milwaukee has moved past the 'Land of Opportunity" to the "Village of Expectations."

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

It was a great managerial move by Yost. Let's give credit where credit is due.

[rluzinski]

This isn't 1999 or 2000 when the Brewers could afford to let a guy struggle for a month or more.

 

I'm sure you can think of countless examples of contending teams letting batters play through their struggles. You may not think Weeks is worthy of being given that opportunity but it happens all the time.

[homer]

Quote:

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I'm sure you can think of countless examples of contending teams letting batters play through their struggles. You may not think Weeks is worthy of being given that opportunity but it happens all the time.

---

 

 

Well yeah.....and there are probably lots of examples of young guys getting benched in favor of a vet.

[Ennder]

Barfield has an OPS down around .600 and he's still starting every day for Cleveland. I don't mind them sitting Weeks if they think its physical but if its just mental he needs to play to get through the slump.

[rluzinski]

Two months ago, fans were quite satisfied with Weeks and no one wanted to see Graffy in the starting lineup at all. Now the Brewers can't "afford" to let Weeks play over Graffy?

 

If some fans can come to such drastically different conclusions after such a short period of time, it suggests to me that those conclusions are being made in haste.

 

Just my opinion, obviously.

[BrewCrewForever]

I think Rickie will still and can still be a very good 2B. I am worried though that if he doesn't step up and perform next year or the year after he will go in that "bust" category with guys like Joey Meyer, Nick Neugabauer, Glenn Braggs amongst others.

[brewerphandog]

What disturbs me is that his outs, are either pop ups or K's. He's simply not hitting the ball hard or putting himself in a position to run.

 

He's far to athletic to be popping up to second.

[bucksman4]

I think this is a difficult topic to discuss because Weeks is really the only prospect out of the wave of young talent we've brought up that's struggled mightily. The problem is no one knows if it's physical or mental...or possibly a combination of both.

 

What I like about the kid is the fact he was the first guy out of the dugout after Graffy's game winning hit yesterday to congratulate him with a big smile on his face. He knows he's not performing well. All we can hope for is a Hardy-like turnaround for him hopefully in the second half or possibly even next season. He has raw talent and has proven in the past he can hit. The issue we're having is in years past, as a losing team, we were more apt to let guys like him work out their struggles in the bigs while we plummeted in the standings. This year, Yost knows for his jobs sake and the Brewers first place standing, we can't afford Weeks the luxury of finding his stroke and costing us games.

[1992casey]

bucksman, I'd go with a combination of both physical or mental, with one weighing more than the other, depending on the time frame you're looking at.

 

Jim Skaalen's comments last night seemed to indicate that Rickie's wrist wasn't hurting currently, but that his approach screwed up during the time it was actually sore.

[homer]

Quote:

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but if its just mental he needs to play to get through the slump.

---

 

Do you have an issue if that playing time comes in AAA?

[Kpanz20]

Article just put up on brewers.com: Struggles not getting to Weeks

 

Brewers manager Ned Yost found it telling that second baseman Rickie Weeks was one of the first players to charge the field on Saturday night, moments after the guy who replaced him as a pinch-hitter delivered the game-winning hit.

 

"I saw it," Yost said. "That's the type of player Rickie is. He's not going to sit and cry about it. He's a team player."

 

Still, it was a tough decision to replace Weeks with Tony Graffanino in the bottom of the 10th inning on Saturday night, Yost said. With Geoff Jenkins at third base and one out, the Brewers needed a ball put in play.

[rluzinski]

Do you have an issue if that playing time comes in AAA?

 

Would you have taken issue with Fielder being sent down, when he had an arguably worse slump last year? Both situations seem very similar to me.

 

Whether he should be sent down or not is one thing but does anyone think Melvin would actually do that? This is the guy who let Hardy play through that horrible first half, his rookie season. Sending Weeks down would seem very un-Melvinish to me. I just don't see it happening.

[brewerphandog]

differences between the two:

1. We're clinging to a division lead, looking to win a pennant.

2. Graffanino is infinitely better than our backup plan last year at 1st base. 1B is also arguably significantly more important a position in your lineup than 2B.

 

Send him down.