Whats is Rickie's problem? Is he hurting or confused?

[Brian the Automator]

[ And that would do him good... how? He's struggling at the plate, we all know that. But just giving up on him and sending him down is not the answer. That would be handing over the job for a month to Graffy and Counsell. And granted, graffy has been hitting well as of late, but we al know that he cannot keep that up. It's not as if once he's in Nashville, his wrist will heal up magically, or he'll find his stroke somehow. That would do no good in my opinion. ]

 

He's stated that it's not his wrist, that it's his timing that's off. I think optioning him until he rakes is a great idea.

[Bruce Ciskie]

If he's healthy, I'd give him a couple weeks after the break, and if he doesn't start hitting, he goes down. Maybe that's where we make a deadline deal for an extra infielder, preferably one who can hit. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[RU Rah Rah]

Now that play is resuming, I'm wondering how long the leash will be on Rickie. I basically agree that he should play and try to work it out on the MLB level, but two more bad series are going to leave him flirting with the .200 mark for BA.

[rluzinski]

I cannot begin to picture Melvin sending a healthy Weeks down to the minors. Before the slump started, Weeks had a .352 OBP and a .809 OPS, both very good for a 2B. Weeks has been absolutely terrible over this 36 AB slump but you don't send a healthy, established player down to the minors for 36 ABs, no matter how bad it was.

 

If Weeks is hurt, he should be put on the DL. If he's healthy, he should be allowed to fight through his recent struggles.

[brewcrew00]

I agree Rluz, look how Boston handled Lugo, by letting him work through his slump. Although his numbers don't show it, he's been much better of late. Comparing Rickie's struggles to those of Lugo aren't even close. I've been frustrated with Rickie a lot lately too, however you just can't give up on him yet (if he's healthy).

[Brian the Automator]

Sending him down for a couple weeks isn't giving up on him. What's the damage in letting him get his timing back somewhere else and then recalling him when all is clear?

[rluzinski]

What's the damage in letting him get his timing back somewhere else and then recalling him when all is clear?

 

1. Getting your timing down in AAA is not the same thing as getting your timing down in the majors.

 

2. Weeks would most likely hate the move. (yes, I consider such things, as do most GMs).

 

It's not like you really can predict when a slump will start or end, anyway. You start chasing your tail if you start trying to figure it out. Weeks' current year illustrates that point pretty well.

 

First 130 PA: .849 OPS

Next 69 PA: .638 (was then placed on DL)

Next 19 PA: 1.127 OPS (right off the DL)

Final 43 PA: .265 OPS

 

What's the possible explanation? I'm relying on the assumption that Weeks' wrist isn't hurting his production. If that's not the case, he should just be shut down.

 

If Weeks looks completely lost in mid-August, then I might consider something but right now, it's just an 11 game slump. Hell, Fielder had a 15 game stretch last year (57 AB) where he struck out 16 times and accumulated a .348 OPS! I'm glad we didn't send him down after that, since he had a 1.367 OPS over the next 38 PA.

[joepepsi]

Would you trade Weeks and good pitching prospect for Brian Roberts?

 

From the O's perspective, it's a no-brainer, of course you do it. From the Brewers perspective, would certainly stregthen the lineup for this season. Robers is having a terrific year.

[TooLiveBrew]

no thanks. Brian Roberts << Rickie Weeks

[RU Rah Rah]

no thanks. Brian Roberts << Rickie Weeks

 

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but what your argument here? Higher eventual ceiling?

[brettac1]

I would never trade Weeks for Roberts. There's still a lot of potential in Weeks, whereas Roberts pretty much is what he is, a second baseman who's going to hit around .300, get on at a decent clip, hit 10-12 HR, steal bases, and play a below-average second base.

 

I would certainly trade for Roberts as a rental, though, because I do think Weeks' wrist is hurting him and Roberts would solidify the position. But, the asking price for Roberts is going to be too high for the Brewers, I think.

[TooLiveBrew]

Quote:

---

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but what your argument here? Higher eventual ceiling?

---

You hit the nail on the head. Weeks at 100% >> Roberts at 100%. And Roberts is a fine player.

[brewerphandog]

I must be totally missing something on Weeks. His performance has been unimpressive. His career #'s don't even begin to suggest that he shouldn't be traded for an all star player. You guys need to quit sucking helium, the guy looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane with bifocals on backwards, folded up in a lawn chair, while sliding down a mudslide.

 

 

There isn't one club in baseball in 06 or 07 that Weeks would be even considered a top 5 selection for an all star birth.

[RU Rah Rah]

For what it's worth in terms of judging Rickie's progress, here is Baseball-Reference.com's comparison for "similar batters through age 23":

 

1. Jeff Blauser (983)

2. Shawon Dunston (977)

3. Don Money (973)

4. Ted Lepcio (972)

5. Ray Mack (972)

6. Johnny Berardino (970)

7. Barry Larkin (970)

8. Craig Biggio (969)

9. Bobby Grich (968)

10. Ron Gant (967)

 

Not exactly apples-to-apples, obviously, but there are some quality players in there.

 

 

(killed accidentally posted emoticon --1992casey)

[1992casey]

---

You guys need to quit sucking helium

---

Unnecessary condescension, phandog.

[brewerphandog]

My apologies.

 

Did anyone catch that at bat in the 8th. I am confident that 99.99% of the people on this board could have put together that at bat. That is absolutely putrid.

 

Condesending or not, anyone who would suggest that that swing is not worthy of a trade to a team willing to part with an all star is not looking at the overall picture of his improvement.

 

He has not improved offensively since he arrived. I have not seen one bit of improvement since he entered this level of competition. Power...down. Clutch hitting, non existent. K's up. Average down. Embarassing at bats--all time high.

 

Let's hang our hat on the OBP, which drives up the OPS, which tends to be the rosetta stone for interpreting Weeks performance . The fact that he stands on top of the plate and gets hit with a ton of pitches likely has something to do with that. You'd think standing on the plate would allow him to have some control over the outside corner?!? Is he using a 28 inch bat? Is this how he has such bat speed by using a 28 inch wiffle bat? He looks bewildered at anything middle and out.

[rluzinski]

Weeks has done some good things and some bad things. You sound like you are just ranting.

[strawbossisevil]

The thing that worries me for the rest of this season about Weeks is that he hasn't hit any HR since April. His power is down big time, and pretty soon the pitchers are going to realize that and won't be walking him at nearly the same clip as earlier this season.

 

I guess I place a lot of this power outage on his wrist. It's just a guess, but the guy hasn't been the same player since late April. The potential to be a huge bat in the lineup is obviously there for the future though (as he flashed in April).

 

I think the Brewers need to shut him down again. Give him the time he needs to get that wrist feeling 100% and then give him the chance to go to AAA to get his timing back. Right now he has no timing and a bad wrist, and that's definitely two difficult pills to swallow for a young player like Rickie.

[brewerphandog]

How is it a rant? He can't hit anything outside and his bat looks woefully short considering where he stands. That is a legitimate point. The example of 99.9 of us is valid as you only need to be propped upright with arms to swing over the top of a slider by 2 feet.

[rluzinski]

The example of 99.9 of us is valid as you only need to be propped upright with arms to swing over the top of a slider by 2 feet.

 

Once fans start up with the, "even I could do that" rhetoric, the actual analysis has ended.

[WarhawkJoe]

I really think it's about pitch selection with Rickie. When he swung at good pitches last night, he hit the ball hard - his line drive to center and a hard ground ball to the hole at short. If he learns to lay off the breaking stuff middle-out (see Mr. Fielder for example), he'll be fine. I think it's really hard for someone with Rickie's high energy to be hitting in the eight hole, and really setting him up for failure. As some have suggested, if they want him to get back on track, and I akin that to mean see better pitches, they need to slide him up out from in front of the pitcher, or the best we can expect is a lot of walks once he gets "right".

[sbrylski]

Rickie's struggles were predicted before the season even started. Coming back from that wrist surgery is supposed to be tough.

 

Rickie's talent and former top-prospect status has given him great expectations to live up to, but for this season, your expectations should have been lowered somewhat because of his wrist.

 

It probably effects his long term expectations as well. Where he used to be pegged as a 30+ HR guy, I'd say around 20+ is more realistic, but to have expected him to get there this season was ignoring the significance of his surgery.

[brewerphandog]

the quantitative analysis has ended, let the qualitative begin. Buy a stats book, comparison doesn't have to involve #'s. To say that the people here on this board could swing and miss at a pitch by 2 feet and .2 seconds is a qualitative analysis consistent with a comparative qualitative design. I realize we live in a Theo Epstein driven universe driven by OPS etc, but that is not the only method to arrive at a conclusion.

 

Here's an example of how it is valid. PTI the other night aired the footage of the oldest man to bat in a professional baseball game. He was I belive 93? He stood in there, not being terribly agile or mobile and without much of a swing. The pitch came in (A league I belive) and he missed, badly. It isn't a stretch to say that I a healthy adult with significant experience in the sport would stand an equal chance to swing and miss at a pitch by 2 feet. Considering that this is a regular event and not an isolated event by Mr. Weeks. It is certainly valid to suggest that in that at bat last night the overwhelming # of us could have put a similar swing on that ball. Now to suggest some of us could actually hit major league pitching from time to time would be ludicrous. I'm pretty sure that most of us on the board would hit in the tier below Ben Sheets. But I would put myself in the same category as the 93 year old guy who was indeed able to whiff by a considerable margin.

[whizkid]

It is certainly valid to suggest that in that at bat last night the overwhelming # of us could have put a similar swing on that ball.

 

That's true but what point does it make?

 

By your logic, most of us are better than Ryan Braun because we couldn't get enough wood on a major league pitch to ground into a double play.

 

None of us could have hit that rocket up the middle and no pitcher would ever worry about us enough to walk us.

[TCSM]

I got a kick out of one of the posts earlier saying roberts is an average 2B. He'll hit around .300, get 10-12 hrs, steals, and has average defense. Yet you rather keep Weeks!?

 

Weeks is not even in the ball park of .250 let alone .300. 10-12 hrs....Weeks will be lucky if he gets 1 more homerun the rest of the season. Weeks is faster, but when he strikes out...speed is useless.

 

Now people how does Roberts who is better (All-Star) still worse then Weeks? Don't give me the potential, ceiling speech because that is old. Roberts >> Weeks.