Whats is Rickie's problem? Is he hurting or confused?

[jason21nl]

Yost said the wrist that Weeks had surgically repaired last August was not a factor in his slump.

 

from Jim Skaalen

We're trying to get him to forget the pull side of the field completely. (After the wrist injury) he's still concerned about getting beat on the fastball."

 

Yost is trying to say that the injury has nothing to do with the slump then Skaalen pretty much says that it does have something to do with it.

 

The way I see it, is even if there is a little or no pain its going to be in the back of Weeks head every time he swings the bat. He is not comfortable up there right now because of the injury. so it does have something to do with it even if its not hurting right now.

 

I know its not the quite the same, but I sprained my wrist last year, and even though it doesn't hurt all the time, it does hurt on certain swings and the way he uses his wrists to swing, I bet it hurts him to swing the bat. He just won't say it.

[Kpanz20]

Quote:

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when he's interviewed, I'm impressed at the tendency amount of "you know's" that come out of his mouth.

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Prince is that master of that.

[LouisEly]

unless you are judging him using your draft day expectations as the measuring stick.

 

I think part of the problem is that people had such high expectations of Rickie. He really was more hyped than JJ Hardy and Bill Hall

 

He should have higher expectations and be more hyped - he was the #2 overall pick in the draft for crying out loud! We should expect more than an average major leaguer from the #2 overall pick in the draft. A 6th round pick like Hall, or even a second rounder (like JJ), I would be happy with an average major leaguer. But not the #2 overall pick in the draft!

[dadofandrew]

Some #1 picks never make the bigs. And Weeks is still just 24.

 

Considering he's at last year's pace and is nowhere near 100%, I'd say he's having a fine campaign.

[foamboy1]

Some #1 picks never make the bigs. And Weeks is still just 24.

 

Considering he's at last year's pace and is nowhere near 100%, I'd say he's having a fine campaign.

--Visit Al's Ramblings...analysis and statistical folly since 2002.

 

I get your point about a #1 pick and still being young....but I stop short of trumpeting this as a fine campaign. Give me Crabbe or Graffanino at this point and send Rickie either to rehab for awhile or to play in AAA.

[chowyo123]

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I get your point about a #1 pick and still being young....but I stop short of trumpeting this as a fine campaign. Give me Crabbe or Graffanino at this point and send Rickie either to rehab for awhile or to play in AAA.

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Isn't this the exact same thing people said about Hart? I think it's too early to jump the gun on Rickie, even if he has looked lost at times this year.

[gregmag]

I get your point about a #1 pick and still being young....but I stop short of trumpeting this as a fine campaign. Give me Crabbe or Graffanino at this point and send Rickie either to rehab for awhile or to play in AAA.

 

And I get (and second) your point about this not quite being "a fine campaign," but Crabbe or Graffanino? Seriously? I have to say, that strikes me as either an overreaction or just pique. Weeks, right now, at what has to be the low point of his disappointing season, possibly with one wrist still tied behind his back, has 20 points of OBP and 20 points of SLG on Graffanino. Crabbe has had a career half-season in AAA at 24 -- he's only a couple hundred OPS points behind the half-season that got Weeks "overhyped" in AAA at 22. I really try not to jump too hard on people's good faith opinions, but come on -- do you actually mean that?

 

Isn't this the exact same thing people said about Hart? I think it's too early to jump the gun on Rickie, even if he has looked lost at times this year.

 

Yes, I was thinking about this too. With every one of our prospects who has had any growing pains (not to mention literal pains), there has been a chorus urging, variously, that the kid is overrated, that he's never going to be more than he is now, even (from some people, certainly not many) that his struggles prove that he doesn't work hard or care about succeeding. We heard it, repeatedly and loudly, not just about Hart but also about Hardy and Hall.

 

None of that proves that Weeks won't flop; I'm not holding out my opinion as any more legitimate than anyone else's. But the one thing that mystifies me is the repeated willingness to assume that a 24 year-old player can't/won't develop any further. Decades of baseball evidence, and certainly the past few years in Milwaukee, demonstrate a basic fact: more often than not, 24 year-olds with talent do develop further. I'd venture to say that "overhyped" 24 year-olds develop more reliably than most, because generally (not always, but generally), they're hyped for a reason. Given Weeks' age and skill set, and assuming the wrist doesn't effectively end his career, it will actually be very unusual if he doesn't improve substantially.

 

There's a fair basis for dumping on Weeks now, whatever the underlying cause. But I bet in a year, two tops, everybody will have been on Rickie's bandwagon from day one.

 

Greg.

[LouisEly]

No, it's not what people said about Hart. Hart didn't produce until he got regular playing time. He started producing last year when he finally got regular playing time. He started producing this year when he finally got regular playing time. Weeks has had regular playing time - what's his excuse?

 

I get that some first rounders never make the bigs, but that shouldn't happen. And usually it's not the #2 overall pick in the draft; I understand that it happens (see: Taylor, Brien), but that's usually because of injury (see: Gold, JM; Jones, Mike; and not by waggling the bat in the dugout), stupidity on the players part (see: Taylor, Brien; Allison, Jeffrey; Harrington, Matt), or stupidity on the drafters part (see: Green, Chad; Krynzel, David; Peterson, Kyle; Williamson, Antone; Felder, Kenny - and none of those were the #2 overall pick).

[danzig6767]

There's a fair basis for dumping on Weeks now, whatever the underlying cause. But I bet in a year, two tops, everybody will have been on Rickie's bandwagon from day one.

 

I can only speak for myself,but i'm certainly not anywhere near ready to say Weeks will never become a top secondbaseman,i am worried about him somewhat though.

 

More than anything is he really still struggles timing sliders/curves and it's been that way most of the time since he's been up in the bigs.Now i understand that this is a fairly common struggle for many young hitters,it's just he can look very ugly quite often even if the pitcher throws him the same slider three times in a row.

 

I'm hoping with experience and health,even those hanging offspeed pitches that Weeks flails out will eventually start becoming laser beams into the gaps.I'm probably guilty of unfair expectation for Weeks,i thought he'd be a stud right away kinda as Fielder/Braun have even though alot of young hitters suffer with consistancy.

 

I just see that quick bat and how the ball rockets off it when Weeks makes solid contact,i get frustrated seeing Rickie get struck out so often by those same down and away sliders.Weeks oozes talent and i simply want so bad for him to put it together,but it's hard for me as a novice to know if it's his wrists making him look so bad vs offspeed stuff or if he just doesn't recognize those pitches well.Combo of both?

[chowyo123]

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No, it's not what people said about Hart. Hart didn't produce until he got regular playing time. He started producing last year when he finally got regular playing time. He started producing this year when he finally got regular playing time. Weeks has had regular playing time - what's his excuse?

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I feel it's because of his past wrist/thumb injuries, although I don't have any real answer to this and doubt anyone else does. I tried to ask Weeks how his wrist felt in his online chat, but my question wasn't chosen of course.

 

Hart also didn't have an injury that required surgery. It was only a sprained wrist... now sprained wrists can be bothersome for quite some time, but it was an example. I'll add Hardy to this list, which might fit better. Hardy put up below expectations numbers through 159 games. People wanted Hall to take his place at SS, but now look at Hardy 3 years later, granted he didn't play a complete season last year.

 

I'm just saying, Weeks had a significant wrist injury and as doctors have been saying, it could take a year to where it starts to feel good. There's a chance he could snap out of his slump and start putting up good numbers. I'm not worried by his production yet. He also had a thumb injury the year before, so it's not like he's been 100% healthy while we've seen him. On the other end, he could also fail miserably like we've seen with many other players.

 

I do find it ironic though that there is usually a thread created when a player isn't performing or over-achieving, and then it goes quiet immediately when he does well.

 

Ex:

1. Hart never going to be above average

2. Can Hall pitch?

3. Hall stinks in the outfield and has poor offense this year

4. Hardy is too weak offensively

5. Hardy not very good this year defensively?

6. Turnbow of 2006 has showed up in 2007... even though he's really done a pretty good job outside of a few blowups

7. Gwynn being the savior and should replace Hall or Hart

8. Give Cordero a huge contract immediately while he's performing like a machine

9. Bring up Capellan because our bullpen is a let down-even with his mediocre minor league stats, etc..

 

That's what makes a message board so great. So many ideas, so many agreements, so many disagreements. Now that I've gone way off topic and added many ideas for people to disagree on, I feel that my post is complete.

[Fatter than Joey]

I get your point about a #1 pick and still being young....but I stop short of trumpeting this as a fine campaign.

 

I agree -- This season has been a disappointment for Weeks -- However I am not going to use 2007 as a data set for projection.

 

Give me Crabbe or Graffanino at this point and send Rickie either to rehab for awhile or to play in AAA.

 

Ick. You lose me here. I am all for using Graffy for spot-starts at this point if Rickie needs time off to heal, get himself calibrated better, but I can't imagine a trip to Nashville will help him at all.

 

Hart didn't produce until he got regular playing time. He started producing last year when he finally got regular playing time.

 

Yep. This is spot-on, I think Yost should have been horse-whipped last year for not getting Hart regular ABs earlier in 2006, this is a good illustration of how a manager can have an impact on his team beyond in-game decisions and into the following years.

 

I can only speak for myself,but i'm certainly not anywhere near ready to say Weeks will never become a top secondbaseman,

 

You can speak for me on this. I look at how well Weeks improved his defense in a short period of time, and I have to think that he can make some adjustments on his approach as well.

 

Really our core group (Weeks, Prince, Hall, Hart, Braun, Hardy) are all young players, and in some regard are benefitting from pitchers not having a "book" on them at this point.

 

JJ Hardy is a great example of this -- Early in the year, after missing much of 2006, pitchers were challenging him with fastballs in and over the plate, as they did not think he could hit for power. After JJ torched them for 2 months, they started pitching him off the plate and in June, JJ's numbers have even been worse than Weeks (OPS wise).

 

s JJ slumping? -- no, not really, -- pitchers have adjusted their approach to him, and JJ has yet to see this on the MLB level. Once JJ shows he can do something with the off-the-plate stuff, you will see his numbers rise again.

 

Both Weeks and Hall have had to work on their defense and from time to time their offense has struggled.

 

I suspect that the best pitching minds in the NL are on red alert now looking for that hole in Hart's swing -- and I suspect they will find something that will cool Hart down and force Hart to adjust from his approach today.

[TCSM]

"Because Weeks is the long term answer and an old fart like Graffy is not. Weeks will be here much longer than Graffy and has better stats this season. Their defense is about the same and Weeks is a better base runner. Thats why Weeks is playing more."

 

Rock, your advocating that the reason Weeks is starting is because he is young and our long term answer. Weeks should not be listed as our "long term deal" in even the slightest bit. When a player comes from our farm system shouldn't mean they are here to stay. Weeks has been the downfall of the other 3 current infielders and by a long shot.

 

Push Weeks to try harder by sending him down to AAA or have someone else start and make him come off the bench. Not showing him that even if he struggles he's our "long term" solution.

[Sepolevne]

I'm more forgiving to Weeks because if you look at it, in the Brewers' infield, you've got 2 All-Stars and a guy that might have been an all-star if he started the season with the club (Braun). I think it's semi-unfair to think that all 4 of the infielders should be All-Star caliber hitters.

 

Plus hitting is not the entire game.

 

Only Fielder has a better fielding percentage than Weeks, (.985 to .978) and you'd have to imagine that second base gets quite a few more chances than first base. Also, Weeks has 6 errors, to Braun's 7, Hardy's 8, and Fielder's 10.

[TheCrew07]

Weeks watches the best pitch go bye in nearly ever at bat, then flails at some behind in the count breaking ball. It's one thing to have plate discipline, but when they groove a fastball, hit the thing someplace.

 

He's a fastball hitter, regardless of his wrist if he's not going to go after his pitch, which is in most cases a get me over strike one fast ball, he's not going to be very successful.

 

He also seems to be lunging out over the plate when he does swing. Like others have said, until he can at least foul off the breaking balls, I'm not sure if he'll ever be .280+ hitter. He walks enough though that his OBP should always be in the mid 300s someplace.

[TCSM]

^^ I defiantly agree with the lunging part. I really noticed today in that when he was swinging he was off balance and on top of the plate when its hitting the catchers glove. And anything that he did hit was a little dribbler foul down the 3rd base line.

[rluzinski]

Push Weeks to try harder by sending him down to AAA or have someone else start and make him come off the bench. Not showing him that even if he struggles he's our "long term" solution.

 

You think his problem is that he's just not trying hard enough? What evidence suggests such an explanation?

[jason21nl]

You think his problem is that he's just not trying hard enough? What evidence suggests such an explanation?

 

if anything he is probably trying to hard. when players go into slumps they sometimes will go into the cages and over hit, over look at video tape over do everything. at least thats what Brady Clark said he would do. I know its tough to compare Clark to Weeks but I'm sure a lot of MLB players do that. Its like when you try to hit HRs they don't come, but when you just try to make good contact they starting leaving the yard. I think the wrist is really bothering him right now. I think he should be sat out the games leading to the all star game to give him some time off. So that way he can be as healthy as he is going to be leading into the second half.

[crewcrazy]

It seems to me that he's trying too hard, especially when he gets two strikes against him. Once the count hits 2 strikes, it looks like he tries to do way too much with way too little. Of course, hitting 8th doesn't help -- he'll rarely see anything to hit.

[RU Rah Rah]

If you look at his whole season, he really has had only one good stretch -- from April 7 to 19. He really hasn't done much since. At the rate he's going, he's going to be sub-Mendoza by about week after the AS break.

[pebadger]

His swing looks simply awful right now.

 

He's always been quick with his hands, but now it looks like he's being too quick with everything. That's not the worst mechanical problem, either. It almost appears on some of his swings that BOTH of his feet are off the ground when the bat is going through the zone. He reaches so much that sometimes his center of gravity is outside his outline of his body.

 

It's hard to know what's in his head, but it almost looks like he simply has completely out-thought himself up there. I think at some point he decided to be patient, but now he's so patient that he lets good early pitches go and gets himself behind.

 

If I thought Rickie could get some confidence back by beating up on AAA pitching I'd send him down. But the way he's swingin right now, I don't know that it matters who is pitching to him. It's not major-league stuff that's getting him out right now. It's a marginal Legion ball swing that's doing it. It's just somehting he's going to need to work out of. But for right now, I'd start platooning him with Graffy unitl unitl he shows he can do the job at the plate.

 

Even tehn though, it's just hard to put Weeks in teh lineup anywhere. The team is having enough trouble scoring runs without the longball, and putting weeks anywhere in the middle of the lineup won't help, as he can't even be counted on to make productive outs. On the other hand, he's rarely going to see any decent pitches in the 8 hole either, so he's not going to get much help in breaking out of this dungeon from any decent opposing pitcher.

 

Never thought I'd say it, but I'd trade him straight up for Belliard right now.

[litesrn]

The time is long past where what he coulda/shoulda been is over, despite what "projections" are. He needs to be sent down to Nashville until he proves he's a legit major league hitter, something that, despite what folks may say, he isn't as of yet. If he weren't a high draft pick and there wasn't this "home grown" fascination, would folks be as tolerant of his performance?

[brewcrew00]

I couldn't agree more. Look at his numbers, in comparable sample sizes to guys like Graffy, and people, myself included, were calling for his head. Get Ricky out of there. Talk about a weak link.

[brettac1]

If he weren't a high draft pick and there wasn't this "home grown" fascination, would folks be as tolerant of his performance?

 

I would say yes, because he has been pretty much an average second baseman to this point. Again, it isn't his fault that there were huge expectations placed on him. Now, expectations have been raised even higher since Braun has come up and immediately raked, and people wonder why Weeks doesn't dominate.

 

He's by no means a finished product where you can just say flat-out he's never going to be a great player. He might not ever become Rickey Henderson, but if he turns into Ray Durham that is a smashing success.

 

There's not any major rush for him to pan out, either, this is only his third season. I wouldn't mind giving Graffy a start a week to rest Weeks, but sending him down won't do anything. As far as I can see, it just seems to be a timing thing and his wrist is probably giving him problems again. He's in a slump, it's not like he has a history of hitting like Neifi Perez and that this is just a continuation of that pattern.

[pitchleague]

boy, I've been willing to put up with Weeks for a while now, but tonight kind of took the cake for me. Hole in his swing like I've never seen before--especially on breaking balls. This all-star break can't come soon enough for him.

 

I'd seriously consider playing some Counsell and Graff more regularly after the break if Weeks starts off the "2nd half" slowly again.

 

I tend to agree that sending him down will do nothing. But perhaps he needs one of those "shake down" demotions to single-A ball or something, where he can get his stroke down and his confidence up. Of course, for all we know he has a "confidence" problem with his "shyness" that he appears to have and that could set him back even further.

[dogs with bees in their mo]

Again, it isn't his fault that there were huge expectations placed on him.

 

Actually it is. The expectations were so high because of what he did in the minors and considering his production a massive disappointment is plenty justified. It was unrealistic to think he should be a star player, but an average hitting 2nd baseman is a mile short of the most conservative hopes for him.

 

I say send him down. Maybe taking the pressure off will help him figure things out, or at least he will be chasing pitches in the dirt in Nashville.