Whats is Rickie's problem? Is he hurting or confused?

[chuckcrim]

His timing is so off that it's hard to watch as of late. He's consistently fouling pitches off that in the past, he'd drive into the gap. Then he proceeds to swing at 2 strike pitches nowhere in the zone. While we can't speculate as to whether it's a wrist problem or not (and he won't say anything) it's clear is timing is WAY off. If he continues to play and in mid August is swinging at pitches nowhere near the zone, we have cause for concern.

[TooLiveBrew]

Face it guys, Rickie's done

[twobrewers]

Quote:

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I'd never try to evaluate a player at 24 years of age or with a nagging injury. I have no idea what to expect out of him at this point. The wrist could derail his entire career or he could just be fine next year, its hard to really know.

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I was significantly worried (and still am) about Rickie hurting his wrist. The attribute that everyone pointed to that made Rickie special was his bat speed. If his wrist is messed up - he just lost the one thing that made him good.

 

He has looked very bad lately. No doubt about it. But it is really hard to judge when none of us have any idea of how hurt he is.

 

Corey Hart was playing pretty poor in April and May (Sub .800 OPS) largely because he was trying to play through an injury. His June had an OPS of over 1.000.

 

If anything, when dealing with players coming off of injury or dealing with bumps and bruises that best way to evalute them is to look at their BEST streak and know that they are capable of that. (Hardy replicating his second half a few years ago and showing that he can really hit. Corey this year playing up to what he showed last year)

 

That doesn't mean they will ever be that good again. But at least that is possible.

[aracko]

Stand behind Rickie. Stand behind Mench. They just havent found their groove yet. At the end of the season there #s will be where they should be.

[razzzorsharp]

I will say it right now...

 

2007 Hardy = 2008 Weeks

[TerraceReserved]

-----"2007 Hardy = 2008 Weeks"-----

 

Wow, never thought about that, but now that I do it seems likely that it could happen. It certainly is very possible.

[TCSM]

"Stand behind Rickie. Stand behind Mench. They just havent found their groove yet. At the end of the season there #s will be where they should be."

 

Aracko, where should his numbers exactly be at?

 

In my earlier post I made the statement of "people need to snap back to reality". That wasnt a post meant to be rude or anything like that. I'm pretty much stating what you see is what your going to get. A lot of people expect him to be pretty darn good, and that he just hasn't gotten to that point yet.

 

I was at the same point last year, now this year I've seen past his expectations and now realize he is what he is...nothing more then average. I hope he makes me eat my words, but honestly that'll take half a season or more not just a hot streak that will boost his stats.

[brewerphandog]

You see this is the type of post that I find troubling. Rickie Weeks at present is a solid player. I would call him an average player at his position considering his offense and defense, he's a hardworking guy, good teammate, etc...he is not "done". What he is not is an all star or near all star caliber player despite the simple fact that with even a small amount of focus he should be.

[LouisEly]

All I judge is what he's done as a professional hitter.

 

Which, so far, has basically been diddley-squat. I think it was Casey Stengel who said, "Potential is a French word - it means you're not worth a (darn) yet."

 

Weeks has looked horrible lately. But his injury comparison to Hardy isn't apples-to-apples; Hardy's injury was to his leg, not to his arm, and anything on the arm is critical in baseball. Hardy's injury, if anything, made his swing stronger because he could only work upper body when he was recovering from the injury.

 

Nik - I really hope you are right and 2007 Hardy = 2008 Weeks. But if someone is "injury-prone" at 24... what are they going to be at 30? Is Weeks going to be Hardy, or is he going to be Griffey and on the DL 13 times in the next 5 years?

[foamboy1]

Statistics aside, I'd be curious to know more about his mental makeup.

 

Is he a committed professional? Does the team consider him a hard-worker? Is he able to shake off failure easily, or does it dog him for awhile? Does he require special attention by management or teammates?

[02john]

After coming off the DL I thought (hoped) they would get him two off

days a week. By resting him before or after the team off day. While

this probably won't help his wrist heel it could help with the pain management. It seems when he is pain free he has been more effective.

 

johnR

[bsglorydays]

Part of it is probably related to his wrist problems. But, the main factor in my opinion, is the fact that Weeks has not improved in his ability to hit off speed junk. He still swings out in front and/or over the top of most breaking balls and out in front of most changeups. If you were a pitcher, why would you ever throw him a fastball?

[rluzinski]

All I judge is what he's done as a professional hitter.

 

Which, so far, has basically been diddley-squat.

 

He has had a .765 OPS with an OBP north of .350 over the last 1.5 seasons, at age 23 and 24. For a 2B, that isn't bad at all, unless you are judging him using your draft day expectations as the measuring stick. Obviously, you can have whatever expectations you want but taken in a vacuum, I think he has performed a lot better than "diddley-squat".

[endaround]

Quote:

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What he is not is an all star or near all star caliber player despite the simple fact that with even a small amount of focus he should be.

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You know this how? His bat speed? Weeks has been injured msot of his time in Milwaukee. Beginning with the foolish decision to have him play through his thumb injury to his two DL stints the last two years with wrist issues. He may never recover or maybe next year he will be healthy. But he's far from a bust and if the worst result is that one highly touted prospect tops off at slightly above average the Brewers should rejoice.

[1992casey]

Addressing foamboy1's question and adding to what endaround said?

 

We sure heard a lot of positives last year about Rickie's work ethic when he was working with Yount and Sveum on his infield defense. When he's interviewed (like many of our players), I'm impressed that he tends to have goals in mind for how he needs to improve.

 

I think the injuries have hampered him, but in the meantime, he's an above average hitter for a second baseman and a well above average #8 hitter. I can ride with that for now.

[jhart05]

I think his wrist is hurting him more than we know.

 

But we won't know, I don't think the coaches will even fully know. Weeks is the type of player who will play thru an injury and not say anything about it. You're not going to hear him complain or make excuses about injuries.

 

And the doctor did say it usually takes a full year to heal completely.

 

If Weeks is still batting .230/.240 next year at this time, then I think we start asking if this is all he's ever going to be.

[Invader3K]

I think part of the problem is that people had such high expectations of Rickie. He really was more hyped than JJ Hardy and Bill Hall, maybe even more than Prince Fielder. So far he hasn't been the second coming of Gary Sheffield (I mean that in a good way in terms of his offense) that some people were predicting he would be, and that's due to injuries in large part.

 

I think he'll still end up being an above average 2B, I just don't know that he's going to be an All-Star caliber player that some were thinking.

[homer]

From Today's JSOnline:

www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=627725

 

Pittsburgh - Milwaukee Brewers manager Ned Yost removed Rickie Weeks from the lineup Monday night to give the slumping second baseman time to regroup.

 

Since recovering from an ailing right wrist and coming off the disabled list, Weeks was batting .194 (7 for 36), with no hits in his last 13 at-bats. Weeks collected six doubles in his first five games after being activated but had one hit since in six games.

 

Overall, Weeks was batting .234 with five homers and 19 RBI in 205 at-bats. He hasn't hit a home run since April 25.

 

Yost said the wrist that Weeks had surgically repaired last August was not a factor in his slump. He also insisted it had nothing to do with being moved to the eighth spot in the batting order, ahead of the pitcher.

 

"That's way overrated," Yost said of the claim by some that a No. 8 hitter gets few pitches to hit with the pitcher on deck. "He's getting plenty of good pitches."

 

Hitting coach Jim Skaalen said Weeks' main problem was not staying back on pitches.

 

"He's not letting the ball come to him," Skaalen said. "He's a little quick going forward. We're trying to get him to forget the pull side of the field completely. (After the wrist injury) he's still concerned about getting beat on the fastball."

 

Yost admitted that a thumb injury in 2005 and the wrist injury last season have been factors in keeping Weeks from meeting expectations after being the second player taken in the 2003 draft. While first baseman Prince Fielder and shortstop J.J. Hardy earned all-star berths and rightfielder Corey Hart and third baseman Ryan Braun are breaking out on offense, Weeks is still trying to make an impact at the big-league level.

 

"He's going to be a complete player, no doubt," Yost said. "You take it a step at a time. I didn't put any more expectations on Rickie than J.J. or Prince."

[RyDogg66]

Or he could just be the 2b version of Glenn Braggs.

[RyDogg66]

Glenn Braggs vs. Rickie Weeks

 

Braggs minor league stats

 

Rookie Ball 74gms, 16 HRs .390/.503/.680 = 1.183 OPS age 20

A+ Ball 108 games 15 Hrs .296/.399/.491 = .890 OPS age 21

AA Ball 117 games 20 Hrs .310/.404/.520 = .924 OPS age 22

AAA Ball 90 games 15 HRs .360/.440/.615 = 1.055 OPS age 23

 

Career line of .257/.322/.405 = .727 OPS, out of baseball after age 29

 

Weeks minor league stats

 

A Ball 20 games .349/.494/.556

AA Ball 133 games .259/.366/.407

AAA Ball 50 games .320/.435/.655

 

Career line so far = .252/.346/.402 = .748 OPS

[homer]

Gregg Jefferies might be a better comparison since they played the same position - granted he came out of high school and I believe debuted at age 19 but his minor league OPS was over .900 and his MLB career OPS was around .768 or something.

[gregmag]

BP made an interesting comparison in their book this year -- Ron Gant. They pointed out that Gant never really started hitting until he got off 2b. There may be something to that; 2b is historically an unusually injury-prone position. Molitor is another example of a guy whose medical record improved after he got off that position. The problem is, we're pretty much booked everywhere else, and Rickie has already become a more than serviceable fielder at 2b.

 

While I'm dredging up old BP and Bill James stuff (James made the point about 2bs getting hurt a lot), I recall that, some years after James started doing projections based on minor league stats, he wrote that the one guy -- out of dozens -- for whom the projection totally had not worked was Glenn Braggs. Take that for what it's worth; it suggests to me that Braggs was some kind of anamoly who may not be a very useful comparison for anyone else.

 

Greg.

 

Greg.

[Fatter than Joey]

Glenn Braggs vs. Rickie Weeks

 

Glenn Braggs could break bats by just swinging them. Of course in retrospect, if you are breaking your bats while you are swinging that probably isn't going to help you hit better.

 

It's pretty cool nonetheless.

[Kpanz20]

Quote:

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Hitting coach Jim Skaalen said Weeks' main problem was not staying back on pitches.

 

"He's not letting the ball come to him," Skaalen said. "He's a little quick going forward. We're trying to get him to forget the pull side of the field completely. (After the wrist injury) he's still concerned about getting beat on the fastball."

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Skaalen would know better than anyone and I respect his assessment. It's interesting that maybe its a mental thing if he is worried about being able to turn on a fastball.

Quote:

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I think part of the problem is that people had such high expectations of Rickie. He really was more hyped than JJ Hardy and Bill Hall, maybe even more than Prince Fielder.

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I think that is definately true... I am sure 99% of it had to do with how high he was drafted. Some players take longer to develop than others... maybe Rickie is just one of those kinda guys even if he weren't injured off an on.

[lcbj68c]

When he's interviewed (like many of our players), I'm impressed that he tends to have goals in mind for how he needs to improve.

 

Casey, when he's interviewed, I'm impressed at the tendency amount of "you know's" that come out of his mouth.