Whats is Rickie's problem? Is he hurting or confused?

[DougJones43]

considering I don't really get hung up about expectations to begin with.

 

You're always posting projections and the like, and regularly using them as a predictive tool just like many other posters do here. So I don't see how you can claim expectations don't factor into your evaluation of a player.

 

Weeks hasn't really gotten any better with the bat since the day he entered the league. After 2+ years, that's disappointing. I know a lot of that is due to injury, but that's part of the disappointment. The wrist thing is beginning to look like it could be a long-term issue. He looks terrible right now.

 

I hope he gets healthy and gets it together. To this point, his nearly 1,000 major league at-bats have not been up to par with what his minor league statistics projected. He's been a middle-of-the-pack offensive 2B.

[1992casey]

I think the recovery process for this surgery takes about a year. If things work out that way, hopefully Rickie heats up for the stretch run and the playoffs.

[DougJones43]

I think the recovery process for this surgery takes about a year. If things work out that way, hopefully Rickie heats up for the stretch run and the playoffs.

 

I hope so. I don't see him being able to get into a groove this year, if he needs to be indefinitely removed from the lineup every 2-3 weeks to rest his wrist.

 

He still has tons of potential, that's easy to see. Like I said, I hope things come together for him. He's still only 24, so there's lots and lots of time for him.

[whynotthebrewers]

You have to laugh a bit when you see this thread. Just a short bit ago there were threads complaining about Graffy and CC playing and saying just wait for Weeks to come back. Ned should be fired because he was playing those guys. Now Weeks is back and there is talk about how bad he is and what are we going to do with him.

 

He has been pretty bad lately but I think you let him keep going at it and rest him here and there with one of the two backups and hope for the best. I would expect him to have a good stretch either this week or just after the break.

[Ennder]

I'd never try to evaluate a player at 24 years of age or with a nagging injury. I have no idea what to expect out of him at this point. The wrist could derail his entire career or he could just be fine next year, its hard to really know.

[bklynbrewcrew]

The guy is clearly playing hurt yet I see mostly negative comments about him. I for one appreciate Rickie and what he will mean to the future of the team. He will be a star player but not this year due to the wrist issues. Those of you that doubt Rickie Weeks will be eating lots of crow by this time next year.

[Lil Dummy]

I don't think anyone said Ned should be fired for playing Counsell or Graffanino, especially when Weeks was out with an injury. What was the alternative?

 

Obviously a healthy Weeks is an upgrade over a healthy Graffy or CC. I think the gist of this thread is people trying to determine if he's just slumping/pressing in the short time since his return, or if he is still having trouble playing through the wrist pain.

[markedman5]

I believe Bill James did a study debunking the myth that hitting in front of a great player improves the performance of another player.

 

IIRC he concluded that great players hit no matter where they are in the lineup or who is batting infront or behind them and mediocre players don't improve significantly because they are hitting infront of a great hitter.

[jason21nl]

Ned should be fired because he was playing those guys.

 

I don't think anyone was saying yost should be fired because he was playing counsell and graffy. They had to play becuase weeks was on the DL. So thats just false.

 

If you have any problems with your hands or wrists is almost impossible to hit well. I'm sure every time he swings he feels pain shoot down his wrist. I think the Brewers handled it poorly and should have gave him more time to heel it. Just like a couple years ago when he couldn't hold on to the bat and would drop it everytime he swung. Sure he can play through the pain, but its not going to do much good when you need to be pain free to swing the bat well. So weeks not hitting has been disappointing, but its to be expected as well.

[DHonks]

I think I'd like to see Weeks play 3 days on, two days off. Until his wrist is better, he seems to fatigue easily. Still, his power binge as a rookie sure was impressive

[Jopal78]

What disappoints me is that Weeks, (like another former big leaguer who was a huge prospect and ended up signing a 3/21 million dollar deal with the Brewers) seems to start playing well, and then he gets hurt.

 

It is certainly too early to write him off as a bust, because he has yet to play even 162 games at full strength. That being said, he is starting to get passed by other players in his draft class who were selected later and are solid contributors to their teams: Billingsley, C. Cordero, Conor Jackson, even arguably John Danks and Aaron Hill because they have been healthy. Which only means perhaps he was slightly overrated coming out of college due to his big numbers against soft competition, and his fundamentals weren't scrutinized as closely. Not being on the scouting staff, I guess we will never know.

[Kpanz20]

Quote:

---

You have to laugh a bit when you see this thread. Just a short bit ago there were threads complaining about Graffy and CC playing and saying just wait for Weeks to come back. Ned should be fired because he was playing those guys. Now Weeks is back and there is talk about how bad he is and what are we going to do with him.

---

Lil Dummy & Jasson touched on it but i'll say this anyways... The reason I started the thread was solely to discuss and speculate as to the cause of Rickie's troubles this year and particularly recently. I pointed out the obvious that he isn't producing compared to the other home-grown young guys, but that doesn't mean we should continue the whole bash/defend weeks discussion. Or where Weeks and Counsell should bat. Who knows if Rickie won't have a great year next year or if he will.

 

It seems to me that if this injury continues to be a nagging one, then it will really be difficult for him to put together a productive year. Whether he is slumping or suffering from a nagging injury is very speculative. It seems a case can be made for both.

[litesrn]

That's sort of my point, too - of all of the "kids" Rickie seems to me to be the one who still has something to prove, and the one who we can most easily afford to lose. He may eventually play as good as he looks, but he hasn't so far, and it's not as if he hasn't had his opportunities. I'd extend JJ before I extended Rickie, at least as of now. And don't mention injuries, please - JJ has overcome that situation just fine, thank you.

[Brian the Automator]

[ And don't mention injuries, please - JJ has overcome that situation just fine, thank you. ]

 

All injuries are certainly not created equally, and it's completely applicable to mention it on this topic.

[Fatter than Joey]

You have to laugh a bit when you see this thread.

 

Why? (77) -- The intial post wondered if Week's struggles were due to wrist injuries or bad plate approach, I find that a perfectly reasonable talking point.

 

Ned should be fired because he was playing those guys.

 

You are the first person to mention Ned in this thread. No poster thought Ned should be fired for bringing Counsel/Graffy out when our regular 2b was on the DL.

 

Now Weeks is back and there is talk about how bad he is and what are we going to do with him.

 

Then you say this:

 

He has been pretty bad lately

 

I agree

 

I would expect him to have a good stretch either this week or just after the break.

 

I disagree -- I tend to think his problem is with his wrists -- I think that from the beginning of the year the Brewers pretty much stated that Weeks would have a rough go of it in 2007 -- If the problem is wrist-related -- I don't think it is something that is going to be helped by a week's rest, and I would rather see the wrist heal completely as a compromised Weeks is not doing better than Graffy at this point.

 

If his wrists are OK and it is his approach/mechanics -- my guess is that his wrists goofed something up. If that is the case then perhaps he will work out of it -- but in either case I don't think this is a typical "slump" -- I think that this slump is injury related, and Weeks' production is not going to get much better sooner than later.

 

I was really impressed with how Weeks improved his D -- I don't see any reason (barring injuries) he can't improve his plate approach at this point.

[BillScottCanRake]

It seems to me that if this injury continues to be a nagging one, then it will really be difficult for him to put together a productive year.

 

I don't think Weeks can have a what most consider a productive year, when year is defined as game 1 thru 162. Injuries and a lack of production to date have seen to that.

 

That said, Weeks can still have a "successful" season. If he manages to make it thru the rest of the year without doing any sort of additional structural damage to his wrist (and he doesn't need any additional surgery), that's huge for next year. As much as anything, he needs to be healthy. Whether or not he ever turns out to be the player he was hoped to be is open for debate, but he'll almost certainly never be that player as long as he's hurt.

 

With regard to this year, the best one can hope for, I think, is for him to have an August and September this year like his April and May of 2006. If he's able to do that, he'll help this team a lot down the stretch, even though his overall season will likely be considered pedestrian.

[brewerphandog]

Brandon Phillips, 15 HR's in 2007, breakout year?

Barfield solid bat, gold glover at 2b.

 

Rickie Weeks? Hype...

 

Tell me one GM who would trade Barfield or Phillips for Weeks straight up? That is one very short list, they all came up at similar times with similar abilities although Weeks has much more physical prowess than either, and they both have outperformed Weeks.

 

I'm not sure how his wrist impacts his eyes, he swings at some awful pitches...sorry to be negative, but I just don't get that kid.

[Brian the Automator]

Josh Barfield = .624 OPS. That's atrocious.

 

[ Tell me one GM who would trade Barfield or Phillips for Weeks straight up? That is one very short list, they all came up at similar times with similar abilities although Weeks has much more physical prowess than either, and they both have outperformed Weeks. ]

 

To the contrary, I would say every GM would Phillips for Rickie in a heartbeat.

 

I'm not going to name names, but there was someone who insisted we trade Prince Fielder for Zach Duke because of how he was currently pitching. When you stack up talent vs. production, talent usually wins out.

[homer]

- Phillips is a year older than Weeks and is case in point for giving up on a player too soon (although he can't get on base like Weeks so I guess I don't get too excited about him)

 

- Barfield is having a terrible year and has been healthy.

[brewerphandog]

career OPS

Barfield: .701

Weeks: .748

 

They are both 24...

Similar slugging for their careers, OBP is the big difference for Weeks, average for Barfield (.273-.252) consider also he played at Petco which is not an HR park, like Miller park. SB's are in Weeks favor, RBI's identical.

 

Something to consider.

 

When you consider one is a gold glover, not a great comparison?

 

Weeks stats: sports.espn.go.com/mlb/pl...atsId=7213

 

Barfield

sports.espn.go.com/mlb/pl...atsId=7295

[brewerphandog]

a year older...I said the three were comparable, they are all born within a year of each other and 2 are outperforming one.

 

Phillips didn't just arrive this year, look at 06:

006&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp CIN&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 149&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 536&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 65&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 148&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 28&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 17&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 75&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 229&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 35&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 88&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 25&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .324&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .427&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp .276

 

Here's the link, I can;'t seem to format stats. (.276 with 17 jacks)

cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/t..._id=408252

[TooLiveBrew]

Rickie's having a tough 2007 - no two ways about it. What I see right now in watching him is that he's not seeing the ball very well at the plate. While his OBP differential is still sound, you can see him swinging at pitches and then shaking his head out of frustration. I don't know how Rickie's 2007 will end up, but I can almost guarantee you that he's got at least one hot streak left in him. Let's just hope it's around come playoff time!

 

 

 

EDIT: phandog, if you called inquiring me about Phillips and wanted to send me Weeks in exchange, I'd take that deal 10 times out of 10. Even in a year where his injury recovery has hampered his routine/reps, Rickie's OPS is right there. While Phillips is having a great year, Rickie's has been poor, and they're about even.

 

Power and pontential (esp. 'power potential') are not to be taken lightly. You can be frustrated with Rickie this year, or thus far, but I think if you talk to most talent evaluators, they'd still say he's worth any small wait we may have to endure. It's not very often that a player with Rickie's combined physical attributes comes along, and on top of that, he's a 2B that will slug the ball much better than the vast majority of his peers at the position.

 

And like Brian says, Phillips's OPS #s aren't that impressive. The fact that Rickie can keep pace with him while shaking off injury says even more about our boy.

[Brian the Automator]

[ Similar slugging for their careers, OBP is the big difference for Weeks, average for Barfield (.273-.252) consider also he played at Petco which is not an HR park, like Miller park. SB's are in Weeks favor, RBI's identical.]

 

So what's Josh's excuse this year for laying an offensive egg in Cleveland?

 

You're comparing a player who's been injury-riddled (Weeks) with a player who's been completely healthy (Barfield). That seems disingenous to me.

[Brian the Automator]

[ Phillips didn't just arrive this year, look at 06 ]

 

A .751 OPS? That's really mediocre.

[brewerphandog]

so Weeks has been mediocre by your estimation Brian? His OPS is .751 for his career.

 

I hope he wins the triple crown next year, I really hope he becomes the complete stud people have forecasted for him. But 1000AB's in he looks injury prone, borderline silly at the plate at times, and simply isn't a high profile player. I love his work ethic and improvement defensively, I hope he can improve this year to next offensively as he did this past year defensively.

 

Coincidentally, has he had a hot streak this year? I can't recall, he's had a handful of good games, and a significant amount of very poor games.