JJ Hardy to Twins for Carlos Gomez

[MessiahRp]

The guy was the centerpiece of the Santana trade.

See that argument doesn't mean much to me. At the time even most people thought the Twins got ripped off in that Santana trade and waited too long to pull the trigger with other teams that had offered more. Just because a guy was traded for a big name doesn't mean he's has some sort of additional value. Many times it's just a poor evaluation by the GM that made that trade that gets that guy put in there. How about the guys we got when we continuously traded our big stars in the 90s? When they flaked out with us did a team that acquired us say, "That guy was the centerpiece of the Gary Sheffield trade so he must have value!"?

 

I think not.

 

Horrible trade for the Crew. We get zero pitching essentially and lose a ton of pop out of two positions. And I am not convinced that the cost savings will be spent wisely on pitching because to this point aside from Gallardo, Melvin's team has not been good at identifying real quality pitching that can help us for a full season.

 

Rp

[sheethead]

The trade works for me for many reasons, the most being that JJ Hardy is not rock solid mentally. The crying and the self loathing he displayed regarding his demotion, subsequent call-up, and proposed switching of positions was evidence that JJ doesn't have an ideal baseball make-up mentally (sort of like Manny Parra).

 

I will miss him, for about a day. He WAS good, great even at times. But Hardy had a forgettable 2009, and there is no way anyone can be certain he will turn it around.

 

All this can be discounted by some due to the fact that I am not in love with home runs. I LIKE home runs, but I will not worship a player because they can hit X amount of them in a season (especially when a bulk of the home run total occurs in a span of two or three weeks throughout a 6 month season).

 

I look forward to watching Gomez grow in CF for the Brewers.

[battlekow]

Wow, so you can already say that Melvin has mis-projected Gomez for this year.

 

Since you can see the future maybe you should be the GM.

I wouldn't mind if X was the GM. And given that Melvin has already said he expects Gomez to blossom into Michael Bourn, I think we can say that Melvin is indeed mis-projecting Gomez. Just because one fast hacktastic guy learns to take a few walks doesn't mean they all will--I'm still waiting for Bill Hall to turn into Sammy Sosa.

[The Truth]

How many years do we have Carlos Gomez for now?

[PrinceEatMeat]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/69391617.html

 

Some of Melvin's comments on the trade.

[RyDogg66]

People. please understand that the Brewers were NOT going to get a pitcher worth a hill of beans for JJ Hardy. There isnt a market for a guy who potentially could be non-tendered. The ONLY thing that could be done is to run him out there for us next year and hope he isnt as bad as he was this year. He just didnt have the value we all think he did. The Brewers got the CF version of Alcides Escobar, at least defensively, for him, and if Gomez and figure out how to get on base at even a .320 clip he will be alright. Lets not start writing Melvin's obit just yet. It is a long offseason.

[Thurston Fluff]

This deal was made much like the Kevin Mench debacle. Melvin has simply mis-projected a player, and the results will severely hurt our team.

 

either that or we are mis-projecting how Good Hardy really was. JJ Hardy could easily be Bill Hall JR. They both seem to have been improving every year then fell off a cliff.

 

he converts more outs than just about all Ss's including Escobar. he has extremely quick hands and no wasted motion. Statistical analysis backs up this point time and again. Hardy had great range.

 

You cannot use statistical analysis until there is enough data to make the analysis function properly.

It is a complete misuse of defensive statistical analysis to include Escobar since he does not have near enough time in to make it anywhere near accurate. I think in this case it would be far more accurate to rely on scouting. Most scouting reports or tidbits from GM's and personnel people on the team I've seen seem to say he is better than Hardy.

 

I am disappointed in what we got in return but when selling low it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise. What we got was a highly regraded prospect who has disappointed so far. What we gave up was a highly regarded prospect who has disappointed so far. Hardy has shown more signs of being capable of handling the major leagues but he is also more expensive and older. It's a wash IMO.

I think to say Melvin should have got a pitcher for him is easier said than done. To think Melvin didn't see what type of pitching he could get in return is to think he is an imbecile. I tend to regard him in higher esteem than that.

 

He has completed wasted everything that Jack Z created here.

 

Remind me tho thank Jack Z for all the pitching help he got us. Had Jack done his job properly we wouldn't be so mad we couldn't get pitching for Hardy. I liked Jack but he did not leave the cupboard as full as some think. If Jack had found us some pitching prospects maybe we would have been happy to get a bag of balls for a .200 hitting shortstop who makes $4 million.

[Gobias Industries]

Wow, so you can already say that Melvin has mis-projected Gomez for this year.

 

Since you can see the future maybe you should be the GM.

I think X has made it pretty apparent that he feels Gomez is huge downgrade from Cameron, and overpaying for SP in free agency hardly ever works. I have no idea why he's taking so much heat in this thread.

[battlekow]

People. please understand that the Brewers were NOT going to get a pitcher worth a hill of beans for JJ Hardy. There isnt a market for a guy who potentially could be non-tendered. The ONLY thing that could be done is to run him out there for us next year and hope he isnt as bad as he was this year.

...then that's what you do.

[YoungGeezy]

Gomez has a lot of physical talent, so of course he could develop into a much better player than he's been....but this man is absolutely not prepared to be a leadoff hitter right now.

Agreed! The kid is only 23 almost 24. He has the body to fill out and develop some more pop and become the dynamic player that people thought he was going to become. People can complain and complain that he is not enough for JJ but this kid was the big piece of the trade for maybe the best pitcher in baseball (Santana). Most kids at 23 are still developing in the minors. Not every prospect will come out and play like Miguel Cabrara did off the bat when they are thrown in the mix so young . Can't consider a /2324 year old a bust already. He still has to develop more but he is a cheap alternative to Cameron by over 9.5 million. Cain our "future" CF is only a about a year younger and nowhere near where Gomez is.

 

Truth is JJ's value is probably no where close to where most of Brewer fans thought it was. Yes maybe we could have got a good "prospect" pitcher who wouldn't contribute this year and may never make it or a another middle of the line, okay major league pitcher. DM has cleared some salary to make some room for a big pitcher.

 

some of the Possible FA's that stand out to me:

Josh Beckett

Erik Bedard

Justin Duchscherer

Rich Harden

Tim Hudson

Cliff Lee

Jarrod Washburn

Brandon Webb

 

There are options and as long as DM steps up and doesn't settle for a Suppan/ Looper I am 100% in appoval of the trade.

 

So step up and get it down DM!!

[Gobias Industries]

People. please understand that the Brewers were NOT going to get a pitcher worth a hill of beans for JJ Hardy. There isnt a market for a guy who potentially

could be non-tendered. The ONLY thing that could be done is to run him out there for us next year and hope he isnt as bad as he was this year.

...then that's what you do.

Exactly. Melvin's really shown no ability to sell high in his tenure here. JJ Hardy is probably gonna rebound next year. If this was the return, I wish it was gonna be in a Brewer uniform.

[trwi7]

People. please understand that the Brewers were NOT going to get a pitcher worth a hill of beans for JJ Hardy.

Turns out we didn't get anything for him. I'd rather keep him, hope he regains his value by the trade deadline next year and if he doesn't then you can still make a terrible trade for him later.

[The Truth]

Statistical analysis doesn't work with Hardy because there are so many groundballs he doesn't get to that aren't called "errors". He also chases fly balls like a 50 year old. (Got a stat for that?)

[SoCalBrewfan]

What? Is this for real? So we're not resigning Cameron, and we're planning to have somewhere between two and four automatic outs in the batting order next year? You could argue that we will have four years of control of Carlos Gomez, as opposed to two years of Hardy, but the years don't mean so much if the player isn't very good. I guess we're shooting for great defense and lots of 3-2 games, which looks like a great plan with our pitching. Sigh.

 

The only way this move could get better is when they start batting Gomez leadoff.

[ELCABALLO45]

People. please understand that the Brewers were NOT going to get a pitcher worth a hill of beans for JJ Hardy.

Turns out we didn't get anything for him. I'd rather keep him, hope he regains his value by the trade deadline next year and if he doesn't then you can still make a terrible trade for him later.

Again, Gomez is the best defensive CF in baseball. We were going to miss Cameron next year so much. Who could the brewers have replaced in CF next year? We are actually UPgrading on defense in center next year. He's only 23 going to be 24. He still not developted yet on offense. If he can learn to take a walk once in awhile, we all of a sudden have an elite player.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Our ability to score runs has just taken a huge hit. As of now we have no pitching and a very top heavy offense. Overpaying for free agent picthing which is what Melvin is almost certain to do rarely works out. Melvin was solid for awhile but I think we are in big trouble right now. Obviously its too early to know what the rest of the offseason will hold for us but right now I am extremely underwhelmed.

[brewmann04]

People tend to forget JJ is not always the Most Healthy player, but maybe Melvin decided to make this team more of a Running Team.

I would not mind some Speed in the lineup even though our Manager is not that type of Guy.

The Pitching Worries me cause they keep talking Mulder and the Rest of the Fa besides Lackey are nothing to brag about.

I have a feeling Melvin will work some kind of trade for the High Risk High Reward type of Pitcher.

The other thing that bothers me is that it looking like Melvin might again put all his Eggs in The Rickie Weeks Basket,which could be a hugh mistake.

[Hate those Rodents]

Yeah guys, this is not that horrible. Saving money is a big part. It'll be spent on pitching. I think you almost have to look at it as, for instance,

 

Morrow/Cameron = ???/Gomez.

 

Who we get to fill in the question mark goes a long way to determining the winner of the deal. Not to even mention seeing what stats the four involved in the equation put up next year, in addition to Hardy.

 

One other aspect that saving the salary might enable us to do would be something like Suppan and Riske for Lowe.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Melvin said he couldn't get any pitcher that he wanted in return for Hardy, so he took the best offer on the table, we can't really be mad about that. Hardy had to go, and Escobar had to play. Doug will use the money on free agent pitching.

[YoungGeezy]

People. please understand that the Brewers were NOT going to get a pitcher worth a hill of beans for JJ Hardy.

Turns out we didn't get anything for him. I'd rather keep him, hope he regains his value by the trade deadline next year and if he doesn't then you can still make a terrible trade for him later.

Again, Gomez is the best defensive CF in baseball. We were going to miss Cameron next year so much. Who could the brewers have replaced in CF next year? We are actually UPgrading on defense in center next year. He's only 23 going to be 24. He still not developted yet on offense. If he can learn to take a walk once in awhile, we all of a sudden have an elite player.

 

 

Now only if half of the people on here would understand that...

[NievesNoNO]

Yikes!! Before everyone goes and burns their Melvin bobble head, why not give him to the end of the off-season before deciding wheather or not he's the worst GM ever.

[sheethead]

JJ Hardy is probably gonna rebound next year.

 

Bill Hall will probably rebound next year. JJ Hardy will probably not rebound next year. Too easy.

[bklynbrewcrew]

When we supplement this move with Davis and Washburn we will really be a bad team.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I'd rather have Gerut as my everyday CF.

[thebruce44]

Wow, so you can already say that Melvin has mis-projected Gomez for this year.

 

Since you can see the future maybe you should be the GM.

I think X has made it pretty apparent that he feels Gomez is huge downgrade from Cameron, and overpaying for SP in free agency hardly ever works. I have no idea why he's taking so much heat in this thread.

 

The reason I am singling him out isn't so much his stance as the fact that he has already decided that Gomez will suck this year and that he knows more than Melvin. He is saying it as though its not his opinion and that he knows more than DM does.

 

Melvin has simply mis-projected a player, and the results will severely hurt our team.

 

A definitive statement like that about a 24 year old player's next season when it is November seems way harsh. If X feels that way now, I have the feeling he will never give Gomez a chance.

 

It is easy to sit back on a message board and question a move like this, but we don't know the entire situation. Maybe this was the best DM could have done. Maybe he and his scouts see something in Gomez us fans and the Twins don't. DM has gone on record as saying speed guys develop slower. To write off Gomez's 2010 season and say you know more than DM right now is just not a smart position to take even if you are correct in the end.

 

X, have you seen Gomez play a lot or are you basing your opinion entirely off of WAR?