JJ Hardy to Twins for Carlos Gomez

[clancyphile]

It's official... Macha and Doug Melvin managed to do WORSE than the Broncos did in the Cutler fiasco.

 

ARRRGHHH!!!!!!!!!

The Bronco's are 6-1; I wouldn't hate an outcome like that...

Is Gomez gonna blossom the way Kyle Orton did?

 

We're losing Cameron, one of the best CFs in the NL, and we dealt a guy who had been one of the best SS in the NL from 2007-2008, and who had slumped in 2009 (big variable in that one - did Ned Yost's departure hurt more than thought?).

 

Escobar may or may not be good. He's fast, but not much power, and OBP skills are lacking. Gomez is fast, and Cameron-level D, but no OBP/power.

 

Overall, this year's been a slump for Melvin. The Lopez trade stank (I'd have just called Escobar up to play second), and the Hardy situation became a year-long soap opera.

 

Shortstop was not broken after 2008. Macha and Melvin managed to take us from one of the best to a great prospect who may or may not live up to his predecessor.

[Never Outhustled]

Cameron was 3.8 WAR better than Gomez last year. Can we get a 3.8 WAR pitcher for $10 million? History says we have about a 1 in 20 chance of that. We will likely be worse next year than we were next year. Awful deal. This guy belongs in the minors, he is a dreadful hitter.

 

We also do not get several years of service time of Gomez. He already has over 2 years of MLB service time, because of the way he was rushed to the majors.

[crackley]

first of all, the broncos thing is silly. Like someone just said, they are 6-1. They got rid of a brat. They got a ton of draft picks.

 

Either way, remember a few days ago, Buster Olney said JJ had one of the best chances to be non-tendered?

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/olney-on-nontenders.html

 

I didn't agree with it, but I usually trust his opinion. If you think that way, Gomez is better than non-tender. Do I think that JJ should have played better last year? Yes. Do I think that we should have gotten more? Yes. Think about the Twinkies though. Like others have pointed out, he was a top prospect. They probably think that he has a lot of value.

 

If Sveum can teach the kid to be more patient, he will be an asset.

[fondybrewfan]

My 2 cents

 

Obviously Gomez is going to be a major downgrade offensively and perhaps a slight downgrade defensively so as of right now the team is a lot worse.

 

However the Crew is essentially saving $13M by doing this transaction which is certainly enough dough to acquire/sign a very good SP. So as long as that new pitcher adds more to the club than the loss of Cam subtracts I am OK with the trade. Right now based on talent alone it looks terrible however.

 

Obviously Gomez brings a ton of speed to the table but overall pretty poor offensive skills. The 2010 team is shaping up to be a team that will steal a ton of bases, but those same speedsters have pretty terrible OBPs.

 

Maybe if Doug waited longer he could have gotten better talent in return, but I really think he did this deal now so he would know how much $ he has to work with going into this offseason to acquire pitching.

 

In a lot of ways it makes sense, but in a straight up talent for talent swap it does not look good.

[RyDogg66]

I guess this saves 15 million if it means that Cameron isnt back next year. That has to be worth something.

[Invader3K]

How did the Lopez trade "stink"? He was the leadoff hitter people had been pining several years for, and had a great stint with the Brewers. We didn't give up much to get him, either.

[RobDeer 45]

People People People. Slow your roll.

 

I live in Mnpls and have watched this guy play quite a bit. His D is great and his speed is amazing. This guy has a lot of potential. He is ugly at times at the plate but he is young. He is also has a great attitude and loves being out on the field. Don't just look at his stats right now, I say give him a chance and I think he will grow on a lot of you. Plus lets be honest, JJ isn't going to fetch much. HE WAS SENT TO THE MINORS LAST YEAR! Teams know that he has no value for the Brewers so why would anyone give up anything. The only way to get anything would have been if he was part of a package. This saves us money, gives us a guy we have under control for awhile, is an upgrade defensively (I know that's a sin to say but Cam is getting old) and gives us some more speed in our lineup.

[fondybrewfan]

Hopefully this is the case, and there is no doubt that so far we are saving money -- I have an icky feeling though that the Brewers may be punting on 2010, trying to reload for a later date, and there is no reason pay guys like Cam and JJ if we are punting.

I highly doubt Melvin is trying to punt 2010 because he darn well knows that their is probably a 50%+ chance that 2010 is Fielders last year as a Brewer. There is no way he would punt the last year that we have our best player.

[The Ignitor]

Maybe they think Willie Randolph knows the secret to turn this kid's potential on from their common experience in the Mets system. In any case, it is a curious move. Especially because Macha does not seem to care about a running game. I can see Macha getting canned early if he does not let Gomez, Escobar, Braun, Weeks, and Hart run a lot next year, because it is now clear that Melvin wants more speed and running.

[And That]

I assume this also means we won't offer Cam arby, unless there's a handshake agreement to decline it.

[yoyomayoma]

The guy was the centerpiece of the Santana trade. While his OBP is not where you'd like it (to say the least), we got a solid young player with potential gaining a ton of salary relief in the process. I won't say I'm blown away by the trade but I don't think it's fair to grade it until we see what Doug is able to do with the pitching staff.

[The Truth]

Gomez is absolutely not, in any way shape or form, a downgrade defensively from Cameron. Lets get that notion out of the way.

[Invader3K]

The guy was the centerpiece of the Santana trade. While his OBP is not where you'd like it (to say the least), we got a solid young player with potential gaining a ton of salary relief in the process. I won't say I'm blown away by the trade but I don't think it's fair to grade it until we see what Doug is able to do with the pitching staff.

Exactly. He has other possible trading chips available, and now has a decent amount of salary savings to work with. He won't be sitting on his hands if he wants to keep his job.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Could the money saved be intended for a Fielder mega-extension?

I sure hope so! If that happens, then I'll be very pleased.

[Yeti73]

I'm not that upset. Great defender, frees up cash, good upside. If we can all agree that Hardy would've netted a #4, would that have been any better? We already have 5 #4s on our roster.

 

I think this was a shrewd move with little downside.

[nate82]

A fielder mega-extension would be a nice silver-lining to this deal. However, Melvin has stated that he's after two pitchers. We figured one would come via this trade. Who else is left to trade who we can afford to part with? So two free-agent pitchers it is... That would leave approximately negative 10 million dollars left for a fielder extension. Bad news.

Hart plus to the Braves for Vazquez could be possible other than that not much out there really in the trade market.

 

I don't. I don't think the $$ involved in this deal gets us significantly closer to getting Lackey

 

Lackey is looking to get a deal around what Burnett got last year. Which was 5 years ate $82.5m which comes out to an average of $16.5m a year which is rather close to what the Brewers are saving if Cameron and Looper are both gone also figure in Weathers not being picked up and subtract about $1m from the savings for the resigning of Vargas but that would be an all or nothing signing with Lackey. The Brewers would be looking at only signing Lackey and then someone like Escobar, Mulder, add in any other injured pitcher to the signing.

 

With the Lackey signing the Brewers would have to depend on Bush, Parra, and Narveson to improve from last year. If Suppan wasn't on the team this year I would say go for Lackey because Narveson could easily replace Suppan as the #5 pitcher.

 

I would rather the Brewers go with a Garland, Sheets/Harden, and Mulder/Escobar signing and then trade Hart plus to the Braves for Vazquez.

[Bankjob]

I am way shocked! I definetely see Hardy doing well in Minnesota. I forsee a lot of thanks for JJ's by Twins fans.

 

Don't get me wrong Gomez can be a success. He is young and talented. Lets try and put a little faith in our GM to see if he knows what he is doing. This trade could be equally beneficial for both teams when it is all said and done.

 

PS. Going to miss Hardy, he was a great ball player and emotional leader for this team in his Milwaukee prime.

[RyDogg66]

Cameron was 3.8 WAR better than Gomez last year. Can we get a 3.8 WAR pitcher for $10 million? History says we have about a 1 in 20 chance of that. We will likely be worse next year than we were next year. Awful deal. This guy belongs in the minors, he is a dreadful hitter.

 

We also do not get several years of service time of Gomez. He already has over 2 years of MLB service time, because of the way he was rushed to the majors.

I could see a Twins fan saying that about Hardy, except he actually was in the minors last year. Lets not forget, we didnt trade Cal Ripken, Jr. here.

[giffted1]

The best case scenario would have been to get pitching for Hardy. It's hard to imagine that Melvin didn't try that route since he seems well aware of their need for pitching. If you can't get pitching, a young guy with upside isn't a bad alternative, and that's what Melvin got.

 

I suspect well see Gomez and Gerut in CF this year. Obviously, we won't get the same level of production, but apparently Gomez's defense is at the same level as Cameron's, and we'll save quite a bit of money. I don't think the money saved will make it possible to make a splash in free agency, but it might allow us to take on some salary in a trade or extend someone.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I assume this also means we won't offer Cam arby, unless there's a handshake agreement to decline it.

 

No reason for him to agree to that. He'd get more from a team if they don't have to cough up a pick. I'm going to miss Cam, he's been a true favorite the last couple years. A total class act and a joy to watch in CF.

 

DM certainly has a good idea of what JJ is worth on the market. The surprise to us is...he's not worth that much. The Crew needs the cash for pitching. This frees up a bunch. If they don't upgrade at Catcher...the 6-9 spots in the order are going to be awfully tough. Escobar may wind up leading off a year before he's ready.

[bklynbrewcrew]

This lineup could be really bad next year with Escobar, Gomez, and Kendall hitting 6,7,8. That will mean our lineup essentially ends at the 5 spot. I dont see how anyone can defend this trade in any way. Gomez and Escbar may very well both have .300 OBP next year and will kill our chances of scoring runs.

[NievesNoNO]

Wow, that was fast!! I would've thought they'd get more back, but I'll try to fall on the positive side of things. Hopefully, I'll love watching Gomez's defense in center more than I hate watching him hit. At least there's some upside left. If he can start to hit like he did in the minors this would be a fine trade. Although, there's zero evidence that that will happen.

 

The fan in me want to think that a quick trade like this with the salary relief it provides will make the Brewers an agressive player for Lackey. I don't necessarily like the trade, but for what it's worth it seems like Melvin has a specific plan in mind and will be aggressive and deliberate with his moves this off-season.

[Never Outhustled]

Our GM is clearing salary so he can buy FA pitchers. FA pitchers, historically, are terrible investments. Doug Melvin will be unemployed by this time next year. This is the definitive move of his tenure here. Clearly the wrong direction. He has completed wasted everything that Jack Z created here.

[yoshii8]

He sounds like a very exciting defensive player w/ amazing speed who hasn't figured it out at the plate yet, a lot like Escobar. Hopefully, both of them reach their upside w/ the Brewers, and become the special players that a lot of scouts have envisioned. I'm looking forward to seeing them become cornerstone players w/ the Brewers.

 

 

Does anybody have any good scouting reports on him?

[ELCABALLO45]

Big fan of this trade, we just aquired the Best defensive CF in baseball.

 

He might not hit as much as Cam did but he is a defensive player. Good to see us pay attention to defense instead of going all in on offense. When you have Braun and Fielder, its ok to have some guys who are great defensive players at important postions.

 

Escobar and Gomez will be fun to watch.