JJ Hardy to Twins for Carlos Gomez

[silversurferr]

Dukes is psycho. We don't need a Milton Bradley.

[MNBrew]

Dukes is psycho.

My sister-in-law taught Dukes in HS. Silversurferr is right.

[TooLiveBrew]

Just wanted to bump this thread. Carlos Gomez has been better than expected (or as expected, if you trusted the more optimistic views on him), while Hardy has continued to stink on ice for the Twins. Slash lines as of today --

 

Hardy: .233/.283/.357/.639

 

Gomez: .258/.294/.417/.710

 

 

It's kind of unbelievable to me how far Hardy has fallen off. This trade is exactly the kind of trade people have been calling for Melvin to make, except obviously it wasn't for pitching. Melvin looks to have done an admirable job in getting a high-upside, cost-controlled player while still selling low.

[endaround]

I really wonder if Hardy has been having problems. Keep in mind his brother suffered from deabilitating depression.

[True CryM]

Just wanted to bump this thread. Carlos Gomez has been better than expected (or as expected, if you trusted the more optimistic views on him), while Hardy has continued to stink on ice for the Twins. Slash lines as of today --

 

Hardy: .233/.283/.357/.639

 

Gomez: .258/.294/.417/.710

 

 

It's kind of unbelievable to me how far Hardy has fallen off. This trade is exactly the kind of trade people have been calling for Melvin to make, except obviously it wasn't for pitching. Melvin looks to have done an admirable job in getting a high-upside, cost-controlled player while still selling low.

How high is Gomez's upside, though? He's never been a high OBP guy and he's never hit for power. His defense is above average, but Hardy's is as well. Gomez is the Escobar-ed version of Hardy as a centerfielder.

 

Escobar: .249/.299/.370/.669

 

Cameron: .277/.370/.383/.753

 

The difference from Cameron (albeit in 16 games) and Hardy compared to Escobar and Gomez is negligible thus far.

[sheethead]

Or maybe he was just one of thousands of flash in the pans that had a good year or two.

[Thurston Fluff]

The difference from Cameron (albeit in 16 games) and Hardy compared to Escobar and Gomez is negligible thus far.

 

Several million dollars and about three years of control have to be factored in as well as on field production this season.

[Funketown]

Or maybe he was just one of thousands of flash in the pans that had a good year or two.

It's not terribly common for a guy who is really an all around excellent baseball player for two full seasons to completely fall off a cliff like Hardy did without health problems. Hopefully he gets it back together, but he just might be a journeyman type good field/no hit SS.

 

So far, this has been a nice trade for Melvin. CarGo has been decent, not a great deal better than anybody expected, but the salary relief from Hardy tips the scale on this trade in Melvin's favor.

[TooLiveBrew]

And the fact that this is only his age-24 season. He definitely still has room to grow & progress.

[Invader3K]

The cost savings from going from Hardy/Cameron to Escobar/Gomez were pretty huge. Unfortunately, Melvin looks to have whiffed big time in how he spent that extra cash in the off-season.

[RobDeer 45]

Yep cost savings are huge and having them locked up long term is big as well. There is no way we can pay aging guys like Cameron and have the "opportunity" to better our team in other spots. Too bad that has seemed to be a big miss.

 

Also, Hardy was a very streaky player. Those types of guys scare me because if they don't get their not streaks they are really bad. That's what has seemed to happen so far with Hardy. We'll judge this at the end of the year but I think it's a big win for Melvin.

[JohnBriggs12]

"How high is Gomez' upside. He's never been a high OBP guy and he's never hit for power"

 

Sometimes stats don't give a true picture. You have to eyeball a player. From what I've seen, Gomez certainly possesses the bat speed to hit for power. He's also cut down his strikeout rate from 1 in every 4 AB's two years ago, to 1 in every 5 AB's. That's shows progress as a young hitter. As he starts hitting for more power, and I believe he has 20 per year HR potential, the walks will increase and the OBP will rise too.

[berniebrewer4life]

The difference from Cameron (albeit in 16 games) and Hardy compared to Escobar and Gomez is negligible thus far.

Cameron has also spent the majority of the season on the DL, and according toa red sox blog could be injured again. If we are looking at this deal in a vacuum(only this year), i would agree that it is pretty much a wash. However, we control both Carlos and Escobar cheaply for many more years, and both have yet to hit their peak, whereas Cam is on the downside of his career, and Hardy appears to be done as a hitter.

[brewmann04]

Also Cameron would have been Injured like he is in Boston and we already have enough of that now in Milwaukee

[8brewcrew]

The more I see Gomez the more I like him. His OBP is far too low for a guy who would ideally hit leadoff or in the two-hole but he seems to have a knack for coming up with hits in big situations.

 

Do you guys see him as the future in CF?

[xisxisxis]

This trade is exactly the kind of trade people have been calling for

Melvin to make, except obviously it wasn't for pitching.

 

Thankfully none of them will be Brewers GM in the future.

 

Gomez is on track to match his 2B and 3B totals from last year. He's matched his HR total from last year alreadyin 40% of the PA and hence the jump in SLG. I'll be a lot more convinced he's had a real improvement when more than 1 stat moves in a positive direction. And that OBP is still abysmal by any standards.

 

 

Keep in mind his brother suffered from deabilitating depression.

 

Was his brother a Brewers fan?

 

 

Sometimes stats don't give a true picture. You have to eyeball a

player.

 

Gomez is getting past the eyeball stage, he's had >1200 major league plate appearances. Sure he's 24 so theoretically he could break out, but at some point there has to be more than an opening day HR to show you a trend towards breakout and a increase in only 1 power measure doesn't pass the muster test. On the 1982 brewers he'd be a good CF, in 2010 as an OBP black hole he should be batting 9th every game sharing the time with escobar, especially when Gallardo pitches.

[jwill535]

You also have to factor that the decline for JJ, especially health wise is really going to limit where he plays and possibly force him to 3rd, lowering his value.

[True CryM]

The more I see Gomez the more I like him. His OBP is far too low for a guy who would ideally hit leadoff or in the two-hole but he seems to have a knack for coming up with hits in big situations.

 

Do you guys see him as the future in CF?

No, imo. Cain should be promoted to Nashville soon. If he hits there and continues to get on base, he'd be the prime candidate to take over in 2011.

[logan82]

We have been eyeballing Gomez all year. If he can show some decent plate discipline, he will be great. Not seeing that discipline yet though.

[trwi7]

Yep cost savings are huge and having them locked up long term is big as well.

Those cost savings got us three years of Randy Wolf and two years of LaTroy Hawkins. Money not well spent.

[brewizard]

There does not appear to be a lot of gloom and doom for Twins fans, however.

 

http://www.twincities.com...96049?source=most_viewed

[PeaveyFury]

Those cost savings got us three years of Randy Wolf

 

Wolf has a 4.5-ish ERA and has been pretty much what was to be expected. Considering the value that a 4.5 ERA has to this staff (sadly), I disagree with your gloom about that signing.

 

Two years from now, I reserve the right to change my mind, though.

[RockCoCougars]

Those cost savings got us three years of Randy Wolf

 

Wolf has a 4.5-ish ERA and has been pretty much what was to be expected. Considering the value that a 4.5 ERA has to this staff (sadly), I disagree with your gloom about that signing.

 

Two years from now, I reserve the right to change my mind, though.

I have to say this post is eerily similar to posts about Suppan from 2 years ago. If anyone has a smidgen in interest in Wolf at the deadline, I move him (unless he has a no-trade clause, that is).

[trwi7]

Wolf has a 4.5-ish ERA and has been pretty much what was to be expected. Considering the value that a 4.5 ERA has to this staff (sadly)

Just because that has value to this staff doesn't mean he's not overpaid, which he is.

[PeaveyFury]

Just because that has value to this staff doesn't mean he's not overpaid, which he is.

 

I certainly think that's fair. But I don't think there's any way Wolf/Gomez wouldn't be viewed as more valuable to this team than Hardy/Cameron for the 2010 Brewers, and that was my point. The money spent on Wolf may not be ideal, but it's a heck of a lot better than spending it on Hardy/Cameron.