College Basketball 2009-2010 (part 1)

[heresrobin]

Wisconsin would not finish top 5 in either the Big 12, ACC, or Big East. Sorry to burst your bubble.

That's probably debatable considering that the Badgers beat 2 of the top 3 teams in the ACC standings already this year (Duke and Maryland) and 1 last year (Flordia St.). I'm not saying that the Badgers are an elite squad or anything but I think they'd have a pretty good shot of staying in the top 5 of those three conferences with the possible exception of the Big East. Heck, there are only a few teams in the country this year (or any year) who wouldn't struggle to stay in the top 5 of that conference - that thing's huge.

 

I will say though, that going into this year, I thought the Big 10 was actually going to be a little bit better than it has been. Michigan, Minnesota, and Illinois have been pretty disappointing in my opinion.

[berniebrewer4life]

It doesn't matter if all Big Ten teams had all their guys, they are not a threat to win anything this year in hoops.

 

Ok, who do you think will? It's easy to say who won't.

[zzzmanwitz]

According to the pomeroy rankings, The Big Ten actually ranks 4th in the country.

 

1. ACC

2. Big 12

3. Big East

4. Big 10

5. SEC

6. PAC-10

 

Now this is going off of the teams THIS SEASON. Maybe over a 10 year span, the big east is going to be the best, but this season, there are a lot average teams in that conference.

[heresrobin]

So because they beat one team, at home, they would finish well in a different league?

Maybe. It's sort of impossible to prove isn't it? I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate that if the Badgers can beat the best team in the ACC at home, then perhaps they could go 8-0, maybe 7-1 at home if they were in fact in the ACC. Then maybe they squeak out 2-3 road victories at Boston College or NC State or Virginia, and they might, just maybe back their way into a top 5 finish in the ACC.

 

And for what it's worth, I agree with you that I don't see a national contender right now in the Big 10.

[homer]

According to the pomeroy rankings, The Big Ten actually ranks 4th in the country.

 

1. ACC

2. Big 12

3. Big East

4. Big 10

5. SEC

6. PAC-10

 

Now this is going off of the teams THIS SEASON. Maybe over a 10 year span, the big east is going to be the best, but this season, there are a lot average teams in that conference.

The Big Ten is percentage points behind the Big East on that list. They flip flop every other day it seems. That's why I said the Big Ten is tied with the Big East for third best conference in the country.

[zzzmanwitz]

I agree with you Homer. I'm just stating what they are today.

[homer]

Right, just clarifying my position.

[danzig6767]

While the Big East is clearly #1, much of the hate on the Big Ten seems exaggerated--perhaps by Marquette fans?

 

The Big East is really the BIG East. The Big 10 is likely to get 5 teams in and the Big East will get 8, after one of the bubble teams is added to the mix. Doing some quick math, 5 NCAA bids for the Big Ten is the same as 7.2 for the Big East. So the difference is about 1 team when you account for a larger conference. The Big East has more of everything, but that does not make them that much better than the Big Ten.

 

What is the difference between Wisconsin almost losing to Penn State and South Florida beating Georgetown? Is one an example of a deep conference and the other an example of a weak conference? I can not find the statistic, but the Big Ten was near the top in ranked team non-conference victories. The Big East had a higher overall non-conference winning percentage, but the conference has several basketball-only schools that schedule easier games for the funding.

 

I understand that the Big Ten has earned this reputation through years of mediocre basketball, but the conference is much improved again this year over last. That game says nothing about Michigan State's ability to advance to the final four--except that it may have cost them a #1 seed. They were clearly a step slow from playing so many road games lately while the Badgers were fresh. Give both teams equal time off and you would have gotten the close battle that we are used to.

 

What really matters in the end is the top teams, not the mediocre or bad ones. The B10 has Bucky, MSU, and Purdue. The Big East has Syracuse, Villanova, Georgetown, and West Virginia. You could go on all day pointing out the various flaws in each team without getting anywhere. Wisconsin nearly lost to Penn State. Georgetown lost to South Florida. Louisville should have beat West Virginia if it wasn't for the refs. Marquette should have beat West Virginia and had 2 good chances to take down Villanova. Purdue lost 3 games in a row. Etc, Etc. In the end, at least 4 of those teams are going to be in the Elite 8, and we will see who is better then.

Yea the Big East is stronger than the Big Ten, but i don't think by a wide margin. Come the NCAA tournament time, i think Purdue and Michigan St. will prove to be very tough outs and could hang with anyone in the Big East. Wisconsin also so long as Leuer comes back.

 

I'm an equal fan of both UW and Marquette, plus just a big college basketball fan overall, so i watch a lot of it. I don't think there is a great team in either conference, just some really good to good teams.

 

Of the main guys in the Big East, Syracuse, Villanova, Georgetown, and West Virginia, i wouldn't be shocked if any of them got upset before reaching the Sweet 16. Same goes for Michigan St, Purdue, and Wisconsin. Of those 7 teams though, i do think Syracuse and Villanova are clearly the top two with the remaining five all being roughly equal. That said, for both being 20-1/22-1, they don't feel that good when i've watched them. They'll both be either 1 or 2 seeds, but they feel more like 3 seed type of teams that just happen to be lucky college ball is watered down this season. Kansas IMO will end up number one at seasons end and they aren't close to special.

 

My gut hunch is come tourney time, we could see more big upsets than in years past featuring 1-2 seeds. This won't be one of those years where say the Elite 8 has six 1-2 seeds or three number 1 seeds in the Final Four.

[Oldcity]

I don't know where the Big East debate came from either but Wisconsin would not finish top 5 in either the Big 12, ACC, or Big East. Sorry to burst your bubble. But in any conference you are going to have some awful teams at the bottom and seeing the Big East is so large, you are bound to have a few in there. But overall I don't see how you look at the Big Ten and say that it is a grueling schedule. The teams play very hard and good team basketball but that is because they are all below average athletically. Which usually means they are not serious threats in the end.

No need to apologize; you aren't bursting anyone's bubble.

When you make a claim like that, I'm sure people would love you to name the five ACC and Big 12 teams better than Wisconsin.

Wisconsin has won its last four games against the ACC. They weren't just home games. In fact, only one was. Maryland neutral site, Florida State neutral site (NCAA tournament for that matter), Virginia at Virginia. They only home win was over Duke, the ACC's best team. Neutral site, the only ACC team I wouldn't feel confident against is Duke.

Big 12? The only clear-cut superior team is Kansas. UW has played Texas extremely evenly the last couple years. Missouri is good, but clearly better than Wisconsin? Nope. Same with K-State and Baylor, and the rest almost anyone would say are not as good as Wisconsin.

I'm even having a hard time coming up with five better teams in the Big East. Syracuse, Villanova... Then who? West Virginia? Georgetown? Heck, Pomeroy has Marquette as the 5th best Big East team, and UW beat them. And Marquette won at Georgetown.

And as for the lack of athleticism being a burden? Do you realize how many teams in just the last five years have been far superior to UW athletically and still gotten waxed? My favorite example is Michael Beasley's Kansas State team that was never even in the game, but there are plenty of others.

And for the record, I'd stack the top four Big Ten teams up against the top four of any conference and wouldn't feel overmatched at all.

 

[Roscoe Chill]

I don't know why people are just ignoring Ohio State in this debate either.

[Glennron]

I don't know either. With Evan Turner they could honestly beat just about any team in the country on a given night. I don't know how I haven't really seen any NBA mock drafts where Turner goes #2. He's a taller version of Brandon Roy who rebounds more.

 

Also, not only did the Big 10 win the B10/ACC challenge, 4 of the top 5 teams in the conference won against Duke, Clemson, Wake and Florida State; probably 4 of the best 6 teams in the ACC. Plus, Penn State won at Virginia, who is tied for first in the ACC. I guess by using that logic, Penn State would be the best team in the ACC?

[TooLiveBrew]

So because they beat one team, at home, they would finish well in a different league?

 

Nope, but it's better empirical proof than, 'Hey you guys, your team isn't good!' Stevo already outlined things quite well with regards to the ACC/Big 12/Big East comment.

 

 

And if you are going to use the Mich St win, they lost their best player durng the game as well. Not that they were going to win anyways. All teams lose guys so stop making excuses./

 

I don't need to make excuses. The Badgers whipped an elite team shorthanded, so no excuses necessary. Like you noted, Lucas got hurt well after the game had been decided.

 

 

It doesn't matter if all Big Ten teams had all their guys, they are not a threat to win anything this year in hoops.

 

"Win anything"? So basically the only conference that's worth a crap is the one that the National Title winner comes from? Because otherwise I'll just gladly remind you of your wise words once three or four Big Ten teams are in the Sweet Sixteen. But I'm sure I won't have to worry about you making excuses.

When you make a claim like that, I'm sure people would love you to name the five ACC and Big 12 teams better than Wisconsin.

I know I sure would -- don't forget the Big East, though

[brewcrew7]

So because they beat one team, at home, they would finish well in a different league?

 

Nope, but it's better empirical proof than, 'Hey you guys, your team isn't good!' Stevo already outlined things quite well with regards to the ACC/Big 12/Big East comment.

 

 

And if you are going to use the Mich St win, they lost their best player durng the game as well. Not that they were going to win anyways. All teams lose guys so stop making excuses./

 

I don't need to make excuses. The Badgers whipped an elite team shorthanded, so no excuses necessary. Like you noted, Lucas got hurt well after the game had been decided.

 

 

It doesn't matter if all Big Ten teams had all their guys, they are not a threat to win anything this year in hoops.

 

"Win anything"? So basically the only conference that's worth a crap is the one that the National Title winner comes from? Because otherwise I'll just gladly remind you of your wise words once three or four Big Ten teams are in the Sweet Sixteen. But I'm sure I won't have to worry about you making excuses.

No I am not saying that. But none of them are going to make that deep run or have anyone shaking in their boots. And I will love to hear that when you have those teams in the sweet sixteen, which I doubt will happen. But it's also glad to know that the big ten is excited to get a few teams to the sweet sixteen, which means you beat a couple of very average teams. Unless you are a low seed. So I guess the expectations of fans is the same as mine, low.

[TooLiveBrew]

Ah, I see. Getting to the Sweet Sixteen... just 'meh'

 

Now let's see those lists of what teams you have ahead of Bucky in the Big 12, Big East, & ACC

[Oldcity]

So your response to all these thought-out posts with facts is, "None of them are going to make a deep run."

 

And I agree with you guys on Ohio St. When I said top four Big Ten teams, I meant Wisconsin, Purdue, Michigan St. and Ohio St. They're the only team to blow out Wisconsin all season. Turner is phenomenal, and they're just about as good as any team in the country.

[homer]

The top four teams have already beaten some of the best teams in the country. They will compete with anyone. Obviously, just my opinion. Time will tell but at least I am basing my argument on facts.

[Roscoe Chill]

Who made it to the Championship game last year? Is that a deep run?

 

In the last ten years only the ACC has had more Final Four appearances than the Big Ten.

 

ACC: 9 (North Carolina 4; Duke 2; Maryland 2; Georgia Tech 1)

BIG TEN: 8 (Michigan State 4; Wisconsin 1; Indiana 1; Illinois 1; Ohio State 1)

BIG EAST: 7 (Connecticut 2; Syracuse 1; Marquette 1; Louisville 1; Georgetown 1; Villanova 1)

BIG 12: 6 (Kansas 3; Oklahoma 1; Texas 1; Oklahoma State 1)

SEC: 4 (Florida 3; LSU 1)

PAC 10: 4 (UCLA 3; Arizona 1)

OTHER: 2 (George Mason 1; Memphis 1)

 

 

Yet Michigan State (ranked 5 before Tuesday) has no shot at making a deep run in the tournament one year after making the deepest run you can make? And Purdue, Ohio State (with Turner), and Wisconsin (with Leuer) don't have a shot either? Haha.

[TooLiveBrew]

So I guess the expectations of fans is the same as mine, low.

 

Obvious troll is... obvious?

[thebruce44]

According to the pomeroy rankings, The Big Ten actually ranks 4th in the country.

 

1. ACC

2. Big 12

3. Big East

4. Big 10

5. SEC

6. PAC-10

 

Personally, I don't put too much stock in those rankings. When I look at a conference I pick the one that is more top heavy than deep. The Big East continues to be the best Conference in the Nation i my mind.

 

That being said, I think the top 4 in the Big 10 can certainly play with the top 4 in the Big East. Cuse and Villinova would have a lot of trouble winning at the Kohl Center. I do think those two teams are quite a bit better than anything the Big 10 has to offer though.

[zzzmanwitz]

BIG EAST: 7 (Connecticut 2; Syracuse 1; Marquette 1; Louisville 1; Georgetown 1; Villanova 1)

 

Actually, its only 6 for the Big East. Marquette was in Conference USA when they made it to the Final 4.

[bucks2281]

So was Louisville. But, I think that's just a technicality.

[brewcrew7]

Ah, I see. Getting to the Sweet Sixteen... just 'meh'

 

Now let's see those lists of what teams you have ahead of Bucky in the Big 12, Big East, & ACC

I don't need to list. My stance has been that they would not finish top 5, this year, in either of those leagues. They have played a few tough games this year and have only won a couple of them at home and lost everyone on the road. And now they have nobody else to play until the tourney. Must be nice to have a month long bye.

 

 

[thebruce44]

Aren't we talking about which Conference is better this year and not which is the best over the last 10 years?

[olliegjw]

Aren't we talking about which Conference is better this year and not which is the best over the last 10 years?

In the big picture, who cares which conference is better, or the best? Only one team can win the title. I would not be totally surprised to see any of the top 4 Big 10 schools in the Final Four. The top 4 can compete with anyone in the country.

 

[zzzmanwitz]

You can speculate all you want about how wisconsin would finish in the other leagues. To mean it comes down to 2 stats in determining how good a team is performing. Offensive Efficiency and Defensive Efficiency. For those of you unfamiliar with those terms, its a stat that figures out how many points a team scores per 100 possessions.

 

The Badgers rank 22nd in the nation in Offensive Efficiency at 114 Points per 100 Possessions.

 

The Badgers rank 6th in the nation in Defensive Efficiency at 86 Points per 100 Possessions.

 

There are only three teams that are ahead of Wisconsin in Offensive Efficiency and have a Defensive Efficiency in the top 20. They are Kansas at 3rd in DE, Syracuse at 7th in DE, and BYU at 16th in DE.

 

Kansas is the only team in the nation that has a better OE and DE than Wisconsin.

 

 

If you need more than that to figure out how good a team is... how about Turnover Percentage. That is Turnovers per Possession.

 

Wisconsin ranks 3rd in the nation at 15.2%

 

Basically, what this says is that Wisconsin is one of the most balanced teams in the country. They play a slow tempo and take good shots. They can compete with any team on any day (and they are doing this without arguably their best player at this point in time). To say that the Badgers wouldn't place in the top 5 of the Big East, Big 12, or ACC is absolutely ridiculous.