Washburn....

[dayzedcrewfan]

Ok as if we haven't discussed enough pitchers who potentially could wind up a Brewer next season, here is another. MLBtraderumors and TH have Washburn on our radar at the age of 35 and a lefty who could help the rotation. If its the early 2009 Washburn I'm all for it. But if it's the knee injured Detroit version I'm a little skeptical. But in any case it could be a great addition to our staff and he's a homegrown boy. Thoughts?

[Invader3K]

I don't get the fascination. Yes, he was very good at the start of this past season (abnormally so), but was terrible after being traded, and ended up injured. I don't want to see the Brewers invest a lot in him so he can end up being another Jeff Suppan. In 2008 his ERA was about 4.70, and I would expect that to be closer to what one can expect from him at this point coming off an injury.

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't get the fascination. Yes, he was very good at the start of this past season (abnormally so), but was terrible after being traded, and ended up injured. I don't want to see the Brewers invest a lot in him so he can end up being another Jeff Suppan. In 2008 his ERA was about 4.70, and I would expect that to be closer to what one can expect from him at this point coming off an injury.

He's gone 9 straight years in the AL and never had an ERA above 4.70 which would have been 2nd best among Brewer starters. Since the difference between leagues is generally thought to be .25 in ERA that calculates to 9 straight years of never above 4.50. His WHIP exceeded 1.40 once in those 9 seasons and was never higher than what any Brewer starter other than Gallardo put up in 2009.

 

Assuming he's back healthy and that his ineffectiveness as a Tiger had to do with his knee hurting, I'd prefer Washburn over Looper and given his late season injury problem, he's not going to command anything more than what Looper got last year. Washburn isn't going to get you a ton of innings but he's performed consistenly at a level above the Suppans and Loopers.

[NievesNoNO]

If Washburn is a piece to the puzzle then I'm O.K. with him signing a reasonable deal. He's really just another guy, right around league average at this point in his career. Unfortunately league average is an improvement for this team since Looper, Suppan, and Parra all pitched somewhere around replacement level. Those of you more into stats maybe could confirm or deney this.

 

So, I agree that he's not very fascinating but he's better than Looper, Suppan, and Parra.

[Hate those Rodents]

Yeah, he wouldn't be as bad as people are thinking. I remember so many names that posters have not wanted that turns out would have been a brilliant move. Also many that lots of people were on board with that would have been horrible. I am not opposed to adding Washburn, but would like to know what the contract would look like first. I'd be willing to give him Looper money over three years though if that'd get it done.

[TheCrew07]

He's gone 9 straight years in the AL and never had an ERA above 4.70 which would have been 2nd best among Brewer starters.

Being the 2nd best starter on the 2nd worst staff in the league isn't exactly a compelling argument for him. He's 36 years old, expensive for his production like all FA SP, and declining.

 

While I have no doubt he's the type of veteran pitcher that would interest Melvin I personally have zero desire to see Washburn in a Brewer uniform. Why when we are about to finally get out from under Suppan's contract would we saddle ourselves with a 3 year deal to a pitcher who will be 37 by the end of that contract?

 

Washburn looks to be a 4.5-4.7 ERA type pitcher depending on his rate of decline for next season. The outliers in his last 6 seasons are his 2 contract years when he posted ERAs under 4. His K/9 has always stunk but he walks very few batters so ends up with a good K:BB ratio, and gives up more than his share of HRs. Any spike at all in his BB/9 rate and he immediately becomes a suspect SP. He's not exactly the model of durability either, his IP are all over the place from year to year... not surprisingly his best years were his 27 and 28 year old seasons, and he's been up and down since.

 

Washburn figures to get 7-10 mil per year so when taking his salary into consideration in conjunction with his production I want no part of him. He's basically a league average to slightly above average pitcher... and I'm just not into paying for mediocrity ever. If Melvin wants to spend then go after someone with talent like Lackey, buy something significant. Paying double digit millions for averagish pitchers who are on the decline is the least best way to improve the pitching staff.

 

edit. I typo'd his age, he's actually 35.

[patrickgpe]

i have a feeling that signing Washburn is on par with the contract that was given to Soup 3 years ago. He is another .500 pitcher who had a great season in a free agency year.

[Invader3K]

i have a feeling that signing Washburn is on par with the contract that was given to Soup 3 years ago. He is another .500 pitcher who had a great season in a free agency year.

I feel that same way. If you give a big multi-year contract to a pitcher like that in his mid-'30s, you're going to get burned. There is just little doubt in my mind about that. The Brewers should have learned they have very little room for error when it comes to handing out multi-year contracts at this point.

[thebruce44]

Washburn changed something in his delivery this year that he claimed was helping him stay on top of the ball. I imagine his numbers suffered with Detroit due to his injury, but thats just my best guess. If Peterson or our scouts think the change he made was legit, he could be a high reward, low risk type of signing Melvin was looking for.

 

It should also be considered though that the last time Washburn was effective was also the last time he was in a contract year.

[The Truth]

I'm betting Washburn will be a Brewer in '09 and '10. If the Brewers are serious about contending then they need to pick up a new #1 or #2 pitcher at least as good as Gallardo's career numbers.

 

I'll be shocked if the mentality isn't bringing in a Washburn and someone else in the 4.40 ERA 1.35 WHIP range and hoping for significant improvement from Gallardo, Bush, Parra (which, granted, is better than the approach taken last off-season)

[And That]

Washburn hasn't seen 200 innings since 2003 and has posted a FIP below 4.50 once since 2002. He's slightly better at pitching than Suppan.

 

If we get him cheap and plug him in to the #4 or #5 spot, that's ok. If he's the best starter we get the offseason, Melvin isn't trying hard enough. If Melvin gives him much more than $5 or 6 million per year and more than 2 years, Melvin needs to have his head examined.

[chuckiehacks]

If we get him cheap and plug him in to the #4 or #5 spot, that's ok. If he's the best starter we get the offseason, Melvin isn't trying hard enough. If Melvin gives him much more than $5 or 6 million per year and more than 2 years, Melvin needs to have his head examined.

I agree. My biggest fear is that our two new starters will be Washburn and Mulder.

[Hate those Rodents]

I think our starters we add will be Washburn, Hardy trade starter, Mulder starting in AAA but a possibility around June depending on how he does. Mulder won't be counted on though. The only thing I'll add is there is also a chance McGehee or Gamel are dealt for yet another starter depending on what the market is and what the plan is for the two. But I am guessing both return and we add Washburn and whomever from the Hardy trade to the rotation immediately and that we do sign Mulder to start off the year in AAA.

[sbrylski]

If he's the best we can get, fine. But please... short-term contract or bust. For the level of upgrade he may provide next season, it would not be worth sacrificing future seasons' payroll. Two years max.

[RockCoCougars]

If this team gives Washburn a multi-year deal at 10 million or so per season they obviously didn't learn their lesson with Suppan. I'd rather take a chance on Sheets or Harden even with the injury risk. Their upside is much higher. Though he came up big last year pitching in a contract year in a pitcher's park (sound familiar?) Washburn was never that good to begin with and he's getting up there in years. There's a lot of innings on that arm.... and no, I do not want another "innings eater".

[Oldcity]

If they let Looper go and sign Washburn to the same deal they gave Looper, fine. Otherwise not very interested.

 

Please let Looper go regardless.

[Invader3K]

If they let Looper go and sign Washburn to the same deal they gave Looper, fine. Otherwise not very interested.

 

Please let Looper go regardless.

I could tolerate that, and would not shed a tear to see Loop go at this point.

[bklynbrewcrew]

This is a perfect example of how not to build a pitching staff. This organization has to stop wasting big money on avaerage to below average pitchers. If Melvin hasnt learned his lesson from Suppan then he wont be around much longer. I cant imagine Melvin giving big money to a Washburn or Davis type. I could deal with Washburn as a replacement for Looper at the same type of money but thats it.

[Never Outhustled]

I would think Melvin's hire of Rick Peterson signals a whole new direction on the pitching front. You don't hire Rick Peterson and then go sign the Jarod Washburn's of the world.The pitchers we add will be guys that can miss bats, which will be a major change.

[DHonks]

Stevo, seeing as Looper will be one of the better free agent pitchers, there's likely no reason for him to stick with the Brewers. He'll likely turn his mediocre year into a 2 year, $10 million offer.

[Never Outhustled]

Stevo, seeing as Looper will be one of the better free agent pitchers, there's likely no reason for him to stick with the Brewers. He'll likely turn his mediocre year into a 2 year, $10 million offer.

Looper is not one of the better FA pitchers, that is a factless statement. He was below replacement level last year. He's never had a good season. Nobody besides Doug Melvin, who has clearly demonstrated he has no understanding of the falsehoods of ERA, wanted him last offseason. Just like I said last offseason about Eric Gagne, and was right about, Looper will be looking at minor league deals.

[The Truth]

This is a perfect example of how not to build a pitching staff. This organization has to stop wasting big money on avaerage to below average pitchers. If Melvin hasnt learned his lesson from Suppan then he wont be around much longer. I cant imagine Melvin giving big money to a Washburn or Davis type. I could deal with Washburn as a replacement for Looper at the same type of money but thats it.

I think Melvin should have already been fired, but yes I agree 100%. I am not convinced in the slightest that Melvin has a clue how to build a talented pitching staff, but will be thrilled to be proven wrong

[JohnBriggs12]

If he's the best we can get, fine. But please... short-term contract or bust. For the level of upgrade he may provide next season, it would not be worth sacrificing future seasons' payroll. Two years max.

Washburn is quoted in an article on the Mariner's website that "I don't want to play four more years." In fact, he had planned on retiring after 09, because "the game wasn't fun anymore". He credits Mariner pitching coaches Rick Adair and John Wetteland for noticing something in his delivery that no one had seen before. He also stated it was his knee that had gotten progressively worse as the cause of his problems in Detroit. He couldn't push off on it. He had the knee scoped after the season and expects to be completely healed well before spring.

 

It sounds that "clubhouse atmosphere" is higher on his list of priorities than the contract.

 

The last thing Melvin needs to be is gun shy because of what happened with Suppan. Every pitcher that is not an ace or doesn't throw 95 MPH is not Jeff Suppan. Washburn is a better pitcher in a tougher league and he can likely be had for half the length of Suppan's deal and less per year.

[nate82]

The last thing Melvin needs to be is gun shy because of what happened with Suppan. Every pitcher that is not an ace or doesn't throw 95 MPH is not Jeff Suppan. Washburn is a better pitcher in a tougher league and he can likely be had for half the length of Suppan's deal and less per year.

I'm sorry but Washburn is exactly like Suppan. No matter which way you spin it Washburn is just like Suppan. Washburn was also pitching in Seattle last year in a park that is extremely heavily in favor of the pitcher along with Angels and the A's stadium. The only park he had to pitch in that was not a pitchers park was in Texas. If Washburn costs more than $3m for 1-year then I wan't no part of Washburn.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm sorry but Washburn is exactly like Suppan. No matter which way you spin it Washburn is just like Suppan. Washburn was also pitching in Seattle last year in a park that is extremely heavily in favor of the pitcher along with Angels and the A's stadium. The only park he had to pitch in that was not a pitchers park was in Texas. If Washburn costs more than $3m for 1-year then I wan't no part of Washburn.

I agree 100%. Washburn = Suppan. Coming off a arguably his best season in a contract year having pitched most of it in a pitcher's park. No way he doesn't demand somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 years/ $20 million. If anything, he would be a worse signing than Suppan because he's older, has a bad knee, and apparently isn't sure whether he wants to play anymore. I'll pass unless he will take a one year deal next year for what Looper's option is. He would be O.K. as a 4th or 5th starter.

 

I still say that a trade is the best route to picking up pitching. No more overpaying for mediocrity in the free agent market. If they want to sign a free agent pitcher, it had better be on a high risk/high reward option like Sheets or Harden. I don't want to spend the next two years arguing with people about whether Washburn is "doing what he is expected to do" (e.g. an "innings eater" who is "a better option than what we have to replace him with").