Re-signing Fielder and scott boras factor

[Roderick]

This is mostly semantics but when you offer only 62% of the market rate, that's not really a fair offer in my mind.

 

It was 62% of what he got not the market rate at the time the Brewers offered him the deal.

At the time of the Brewers offer everyone and their grandma knew the Yankees were going to offer and offer big, which meant at the time the Brewers offered the market rate was pretty much at where the Yankees ended up paying him and not even close to what they offered. I'm not saying the Brewers should have or could have offered more, but it's seems pretty clear from economic supply and demand that CC's market rate was much more at the time of the Brewers offer.

[JohnBriggs12]

The difference between Teixera and Fielder is that for Boston and New York, the 2 teams that drove up Teixera's price, Fielder is a DH. Does Prince, who'll only be 27 when he hits FA want to relegate himself to being a DH the rest of his career at that age and do the Yankees and Boston value a completely one dimensional player the same as they would a guy who also plays in the field?

 

If I'm the Brewers, I use Fielder's natural own competitive nature to emphasize that as a Brewer he's not only a bat, but a leader on the field defensively, the same as Pujols. I'd also mention to him that playing the field for 7 or 8 more years enhances his credentials as a future HOFer.

 

I'd be saying to Prince, look when you're 35, you can still get a huge contract to DH in the AL. But from 27 to 34, you are too good an athlete to not play defense. Pujols signed a 7 year deal in 04 (his first arby year) for $100 million. A 7 year, $130 million deal, that buys out his last arby year and goes through 2017 with a $22 million option for 2018, would leave Prince at age 34, still able to secure another big contract to DH.

 

The one team that can upset the apple cart of course is the Mets. But the Mets need a guy now. By holding on to Fielder now, the Mets will be forced to look elsewhere for a big first base bat (Adrian Gonzalez?). Hopefully whoever that is will command enough money from the Mets to take them out of a Fielder sweepstakes. The Dodgers have the cash to bid too. Hopefully, Loney will progress enough that they won't see a need. The Cubs are more likely to re-up Lee for a few more years at much less than it would take to get Fielder and given their contract committments, that's a wise move.

[PrinceFielderx1]

If I'm the Brewers, I use Fielder's natural own competitive nature to emphasize that as a Brewer he's not only a bat, but a leader on the field defensively, the same as Pujols. I'd also mention to him that playing the field for 7 or 8 more years enhances his credentials as a future HOFer.

Good point.

 

Prince probably prefers to play 1B. Also, I think the Brewers should offer a 6 year deal maybe with a option. 6/135 million. The Brewers have said that there is more risk with pitchers then hitters. That's why I think they will offer Prince more money the CC.

 

I also would like to say that IMO Prince would probably want to hit FA for a second time as a DH in the AL.

[sheethead]

I don't think there is any question the Brewers need to submit a serious offer to Prince. The CC offer was in no way serious, and management fully expected him to reject the offer and sign in NY.

 

What screws the Brewers over with Fielder is the money that Teixeira got from the Yankees. While Teixeira is a better defender, Prince is developing into a superior batter. The two are very close in value, and if the Brewers feel there is any way to keep a long-term Fielder contract at or under $20MM per year, they need to do it now. 7 years/$135MM with many incentives, a key to the city, a new high-rise on the East Side sculpted to his likeness, an express-way named after him, a sandwich at Cousins named after him, and a 7 year supply of the best tofu.

[Invader3K]

If something like 7-8 years and $140-160 million can get Prince signed, I think the Brewers need to seriously look at it, and they need to propose it this off-season.

 

The offense is going to be quite lackluster with him gone.

[TooLiveBrew]

If I'm the Brewers, I use Fielder's natural own competitive nature to emphasize that as a Brewer he's not only a bat, but a leader on the field defensively, the same as Pujols. I'd also mention to him that playing the field for 7 or 8 more years enhances his credentials as a future HOFer.

 

Interesting points in that post, Briggs. I hadn't thought of that angle in terms of using it as a sort of leverage. I hope that would resonate with Prince, but I wonder if he'd just be able to basically demand that any AL team seeking his services would have to agree to play him at 1B. He has the kind of bat that can make you stomach less-than-stellar defense.

 

And this is slightly off-topic, but did anyone else really get the impression from the FSN broadcasts & team official comments throughout the season that the Brewers really were stroking the egos of both Prince & Braun this season? I can't remember any specific examples, but oftentimes it seemed like an organizational policy to just gush over the top with praise for those two.

[Invader3K]

Well, it's easy enough to do. They're easily the two biggest marquee names in the organization (at least since C.C. left) and were basically the best offensive tandem in the NL this past season. They deserve the praise they received.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, I know they definitely deserve(d) praise, but even with that in mind it seemed way over the top at times. Maybe I'm the only one that felt that way.

[JohnBriggs12]

Get used to it TLB. It's everywhere. That's today's media world. In St. Louis they gush over Pujols. We have to look no farther than GB. The media made a certain QB who won one Super Bowl bigger than the franchise to the point where he himself and many fans actually believed he was. It always helps for fans to always keep things in perspective despite the media. Hyping is their job. That being said, it's hard to overstate how good Braun and Fielder really are.

 

Thankfully, Braun and Fielder both appear to have maintained a team first type humility. Let's hope that doesn't change as long as they are Brewers.

[rluzinski]

There may have been 3-4 teams willing to easily beat the Brewer's offer to CC. If that is true, it wasn't a "fair" offer.

 

As for Prince, him having Boras as his agent suggests that, like millions of other Americans, Prince is interested in making as much money as he can. Perhaps staying in Milwaukee is worth $1 or $2 mil a year to Prince. If another team offers 7/$140, the Brewers might be able to "match it" with a 7/$126. That's a 10% discount, so hoping for more than that is probably unrealistic.

[sheethead]

I think that depends on the team offering. Milwaukee might have to actually beat another teams offer in order to keep him here. Milwaukee tax...

[The Truth]

I think, now that Prince's family is taken care of for life, Prince's #1 priority in winning a World Series title. He is a very determined young man who wants to win. In order for him to consider signing long-term with the Brewers, it is not only about $$$. The Brewers will need to show that they are serious right now about contending, this means shrewd moves to aquire great pitchers (moves that, frankly, I believe are beyond Doug Melvin's abilities) and not just the token aquisition of a Washburn and a #4 pitcher for Hardy

 

If Prince doesn't see the Brewers making legit moves to put them in position to contend for winning it all, no amount of money will prevent him from signing with a true pennant contender...

 

If the Brewers aren't serious about going for it all in 2010 2011, they should trade Prince.

[PrinceFielderx1]

I think, now that Prince's family is taken care of for life, Prince's #1 priority in winning a World Series title. He is a very determined young man who wants to win. In order for him to consider signing long-term with the Brewers, it is not only about $$$. The Brewers will need to show that they are serious right now about contending, this means shrewd moves to aquire great pitchers (moves that, frankly, I believe are beyond Doug Melvin's abilities) and not just the token aquisition of a Washburn and a #4 pitcher for Hardy...

Mark A and Doug Melvin have stated I believe that they are going to be more aggressive this off-season to get pitching. The openly admitted they didn't have enough in 2009. They are clearly serious about getting to the playoffs again next season and each season after that.

 

Washburn won't cut it IMO.

[NievesNoNO]

Yes, I agree they need to make an aggressive offer to him now. Everyone has a price. I'm sure if they straight up asked him what it would take to keep him from entering free agency he'd give them a number. While there is some risk involved, barring a career ending injury I don't see his production falling off. If anything he might get better if that's possible. So, down the road if they wanted consider trading him, even with a large contract I don't think they'd have much problem moving him.

 

I'd throw in a triple crown incentive as motivational icing on the cake.

[WV Brew]

when you offer only 62% of the market rate

 

For the total package yes. Per year it was competitive. I think $23 versus $20 million per year. To me, that is a competitive bid. I'm not going to try to mind read what was in Melvin's mind about whether the deal would be accepted or not. The player expressed publicly the desire to remain with the team. To me, and most fans probably, the Brewers made an effort. $100 million is not an insignificant amount of money for a club like the Brewers. My original point was the need to make a reasonable offer to Prince. Perhaps below market rate.

[TheCrew07]

That's just it though, the Brewers are never going to be able to match years, which is what many of us said all along. Baseball contracts are guaranteed, the player is always going to take the best total package, it's always going to come down to years and there's simply no way the Brewers should ever hand out a 7 year deal to FA pitcher unless he's 24 years old.

[PrinceFielderx1]

That's just it though, the Brewers are never going to be able to match years, which is what many of us said all along. Baseball contracts are guaranteed, the player is always going to take the best total package, it's always going to come down to years and there's simply no way the Brewers should ever hand out a 7 year deal to FA pitcher unless he's 24 years old.

What about a 25 year old hitter? :>)

[FVBrewerFan]

I think, now that Prince's family is taken care of for life, Prince's #1 priority in winning a World Series title. He is a very determined young man who wants to win. In order for him to consider signing long-term with the Brewers, it is not only about $$$.

If Prince doesn't see the Brewers making legit moves to put them in position to contend for winning it all, no amount of money will prevent him from signing with a true pennant contender...

 

If the Brewers aren't serious about going for it all in 2010 2011, they should trade Prince.

I don't agree. It's about the money. And I don't think the Brewers get a home town discount, in fact they probably need to have a bigger package than the yankees, Red Sox, etc. Why? Endorsements. He's a star only to baseball fans right now. In New York, he would be a mega-star that reaches beyond baseball fans. And the money follows.

 

But even IF winning a ring was most important, no matter what the Brewers do they're still not as likely to win the WS as the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. Add the fact that Boras is the agent, and it's all you need to know.

[ILuvDaBush]

Considering his upbringing and its effect on his relationship with his father, fidelity and commitment would seem to be virtues he admires. As long as we're honest with him and show him that we're altogether committed to him (which we have always been), then I hope he would take it upon himself to reciprocate the gesture. And can any team offer him what the Brewers offer him in Braun? Combined, they are the best 3-4 combination in the sport.

 

I really hope one of these mornings I wake up to read, "Fielder inks largest deal in history of franchise." Our future would be tied to Braun-Fielder, and I wonder about what type of effect it would have on our ability to keep Yovani, but we are DEFINED by our C-IT-GO mentality. Chicks dig the long ball. And Wisconsin digs its Prince.

[The Truth]

I'm not saying the Brewers will get a hometown discount if they show the ability to put together a true contender, I'm saying the Brewers won't be under any consideration at any amount of money if they don't put together a true title contender.

 

Neither will any other MLB team that can't put together a title contending roster. i.e., it is not just about $$$ with Prince. Yes, the money has gotta be there, but he wants to win it all...

[Ennder]

I don't agree. It's about the money. And I don't think the Brewers get a home town discount, in fact they probably need to have a bigger package than the yankees, Red Sox, etc. Why? Endorsements. He's a star only to baseball fans right now. In New York, he would be a mega-star that reaches beyond baseball fans. And the money follows

 

I don't think baseball usually work this way. Teams like the Yankees and Red Sox have to pay more to get a player because the players know they will overbid to sign them. The Patriots get players at a discount because of endorsements etc, I don't think the Red Sox really do.

[Roderick]

probably need to have a bigger package than the yankees, Red Sox, etc. Why? Endorsements.

I don't think baseball usually work this way. Teams like the Yankees and Red Sox have to pay more to get a player because the players know they will overbid to sign them. The Patriots get players at a discount because of endorsements etc, I don't think the Red Sox really do.

If the Yankees and Red Sox would bid for players at the market rate (without them escalating it), I think you would still find they get more than their fair share of players because of the additional endorsement income. But on the same tact, those players out for the biggest total "net" salary will also favor the states with no income tax. 81 games with no state income tax looks good.