Should Damian Miller be shopped?

[JohnBriggs12]

I thought this deserved it's own thread.

 

Now I know Damian does bleed Brewer blue, and as a backup he certainly is still a cut above the average backup catcher. I am sure the acquisition of Estrada has shaken him up a bit too.

 

But he still will make $2.25 million in 07. It's nothing for a big market team to pay that for a backup catcher, as evidenced by the contract Henry Blanco got from the Cubs but that's a lot more than the Brewers have ever paid.

 

As you look around, there are some big market teams without backup catchers on their roster. Two of them are the White Sox and Yankees. The free agent market is down to a list of usual suspects, most of whom are mid 30's gypsies (inlcluding former Brewers like Bako and Bennett) who certainly are not all that desirable.

 

The Brewers have 3 counting Miller. Now I am in the camp that Rivera makes a fine backup for a lot less money with some potential that has not yet been fully tapped. I also think it's quite possible that Rivera would be claimed if they tried to get him through waivers.

 

Shouldn't the Brewers be listening to offers from teams like the Yankees and White Sox for Miller? While Miller has said he'd prefer to stay a Brewer, by sending him to one of those clubs at least you are giving him a great opportunity for postseason baseball.

[sbrylski]

What are you expecting in return for him? I don't think anyone would offer much, and I highly doubt it would be a major league player that can help us next year.

 

I say we keep him. Depth is a good thing to have, not just trading pieces.

[JohnBriggs12]

No sbrylski06, I wouldn't expect a major leaguer in return but $1,850,000 netted in salary relief could be put to use in another area of need.

 

But I don't think Miller necessarily provides them with better depth than Rivera would. After the All Star break, Miller hit just .207/.291/.288 while Rivera hit .265/.325/.441. The excuse for Miller was that he had played a lot in the first half, but so had Rivera, only he was at Nashville.

 

Besides, whoever thought they'd get a major league starting pitcher (Villanueva) in return for Wayne Franklin and Leo Estrella?

[AJ Love]

I think Miller remains a better overall Catcher than Rivera, he's definitely much better defensively and Estrada-Miller will be one of the top Catcher combinations in MLB. Is there a reason that Rivera can't start the season in AAA?

[sbrylski]

Briggs,

 

I would have no problem with shopping him of course, I just don't think we'll get a good enough return to justify diminishing our accumulated depth at catcher.

 

I think it's wonderful to have a guy like Rivera at AAA. And also Closser. One injury of the four and one guy falls on his face, we still have two left.

[thefutureishere2006]

i agree keep miller around. he leaves after 07... rivera and estrada catch in 08...we finally have depth at catcher ..and we wanna trade it away. i don't think we are too hurting at any position. obviously we aren't perfect.. but we need these catchers.

[endaround]

Unless Miller asks to leave, no. You don't go about trading guys who take hometown discounts if you're the Brewers because you'll need those discounts going forward. Pissing off Miller means you'll have greater trouble signing others.

[hauser42]

You have to keep him. Great depth so we don't wear either one out and maybe at the trade deadline someone does offer something for Miller for the stretch run unless we are up by 5 games at that point.

[JohnBriggs12]

Rivera has to clear through waivers to get assigned to AAA.

 

I'd put the likelihood of that at less than 50-50 especially if he has another spring raking like he did in 2006.

 

So there is absolutely no guarantee that come April 1, Rivera will be Brewer property and they'd get zilch for him.

 

As for defense, Rivera is at least on par with Miller at this stage of Miller's career. His caught steal percentage isn't quite as good, but watch them. Rivera is quite adept back there blocking balls whereas if you watch Miller, notice how many times he just drops the ball even on pitches down the middle. That's what Carlton Fisk used to do when he got to his 40's. It's a sign a guy's reflexes aren't what they used to be.

[sbrylski]

Rivera has to clear through waivers to get assigned to AAA.

 

Is this true? If so, I would be willing to change tunes a bit on shipping out either Miller or Rivera.

 

Closser has to clear waivers as well, correct?

[JohnBriggs12]

Hey, can endaround get away with using that word?

 

By the way, endaround, here's a newsflash. Baseball is a business. Miller signed a nice contract and he's getting his money. Miller is a grownup. He understands it.

 

If he wanted a guarantee, then he should have produced more or asked for a no-trade.

[aracko]

Rivera has had an offseason to improve on his building skills, while Miller has had an offseason to try to keep his skills from decaying any more.

 

I would definatly shop Miller. I want Estrada in there as much as possible - One day off a week maybe. Maybe 3 games off Every 2 weeks.

 

With Damian on the roster - Ned is going to go to the well too many times because he is such a loyal dupa. We should get every ounce out of Estrada that we can.

[rluzinski]

Rivera has a very poor arm and not a very good track record with the stick. I'd rather just stick with Miller. He might actually hit better if he only needs to start 50 games.

[endaround]

Sorry Briggs, but you seem not to understand business. Managers who treat their employees like crap don't get very far. Getting the reputation of trading players after they come for less then market means you won't get players taking less than market to stay. The Brewers can't afford market.

[qrk10000]

Unless Miller asks to leave, no. You don't go about trading guys who take hometown discounts if you're the Brewers because you'll need those discounts going forward. Pissing off Miller means you'll have greater trouble signing others.

 

I like what Miller has done here and think he has been a good signing but I hardly consider what he signed a "hometown discount". He was paid pretty well for someone who may now be surpassed offensively by Henry Blanco. I am all for shipping Miller if it meant adding a decent minor leaguer or two. Rivera would do just find as a backup.

[JohnBriggs12]

How is Miller any different than Jenkins?

 

Jenkins could have made more in the open market, wanted to stay a Brewer and still does. Not only is trading him being openly discussed (next thread over) all over, but he was publicly benched by that management that you contend can't afford to treat it's players like crap. Besides you think Miller likes the deal to get Estrada?

 

I'm sorry endaround, the loyalty of management is to its fans first and foremost.

 

I can understand that some believe based on a much larger body of work that Miller is a better choice to back up Estrada.

But to argue it would upset a player and thus other players would be less inclined to come to Milwaukee is far fetched. They aren't coming anyway.

[JohnBriggs12]

rluzinski,

 

I've read a lot of posts that say Rivera doesn't have a good record with the stick.

 

Was that .936 OPS with 33 HR and 101 RBI at AA in 2001 an illusion? Or that .895 and .827 OPSs he posted at Nashville in 05 and 06 with a combined 26 HR and 89 RBI in 427 AB's a figment of somebody's imagination?

 

Those numbers by a catcher are quite impressive as was his .774 OPS with Brewers in his first big league action in 3 years.

[AJ Love]

Rivera needing to clear waivers does indeed change things, in my mind. I did not realize that. If that is indeed the case I would consider trading Miller.

[Invader3K]

We can't trade Miller, because he proves that free agents do sign with Milwaukee, even if it is a rare occurence. Trading him would be like shooting the last unicorn.

[patrickgpe]

i dont know who would give up anything for miller but i would trade him and let the younger Rivera back up Estrada. Then Closser can start at AAA, and can be brought up in an event of an injury.

[thefutureishere2006]

or how bout do this. start estrada (that is a given) and let miller back him up and start every 5-7 games to keep his bat semi fresh...i like the veteran presence off the bench...

 

then split jd..and rivera's time in AAA pretty much 50-50..then in 08 spring training .. the better 2 of jd ..rivera and estrada...stay in milwaukee. the other one (assuming miller retires) goes via trade or has another year in AAA with lou (he is still around right?)

[bando1234]

I think you take all four to spring training. Estrada starts, Closser will go to AAA. Miller & Rivera then compete for the left over spot. If Miller retires or one of them gets injured were covered. That being said I m all for keeping Miller just due to the fact that he is a hometown boy & we dont get many of those.

 

Every team could use an extra catcher, & we could probally use an extra pitcher right around that time.I will always remember names like Tommy Phelps, Shane Nance, Adrian Hernandez & Jered Fernandez making the team. It would be nice to use the 3rd catcher to get just a little better arm than that.

[laserbomb]

I think it's definitely a valid point about Rivera possibly not clearing waivers. I liked watching him late this summer and I'm sure other teams noticed. We're assuming Closser will clear, so for the sake of figuring out what to do, let's assume for now Rivera wouldn't.

 

We've been talking about him like an up-and-comer, though, which I thought he was a little more of, but he's a few years older than I thought: he's 30.

 

That's only a couple years away from bouncing around for 2-year backup deals while only GMs and people like us care or notice, and I don't think he'd leave and tear our hearts out catching 100 games and hitting .270 or anything.

 

Probably any other GM would know our situation and not offer much for either one, so let's enjoy it while it lasts and we should still be in good shape in April. They're not even approaching their payroll ceiling yet and there's a good chance they won't have to eat anything off Jenkins so I guess I'd rather see what Miller can do if he stays a little more fresh.

 

Seven years difference is enough to seriously consider making sure Rivera stays close, especially until we get a better idea whether Salome can really woah solv the way Palsmo hasn't. But he'll get his shot and plenty of time to make his case.

 

Turning 37 couldn't possibly have been any harder than trying to carry Chad Moeller's 210 (am I talking about his weight or his battng average??) for months.

[splitterpfj]

I didn't stick the link in here because Damian was one sentence within a full page, but a Chicago writer today mentioned him as a possible target for the White Sox.