Filling out the roster

[TooLiveBrew]

Doug Melvin shows a strong attention to detail in trades, consistently getting not just one, but typically two or three players to cover more than just one area of need. Based on a roster of:

 

SP - Sheets, Cap, Bush, Vargas, CV

RP - Shouse, Wise, Capellan, TBow, Aquino, CoCo

 

OF - Hall, Hart, Gross, Jenkins

IF - Koskie, Hardy, Weeks, Fielder, Estrada, Miller

 

Who should Doug E. Doug bring in to serve as the bench & utility players? The group above accounts for 21 of the 25 roster spots.

 

I kept a couple players on who may be gone by the end of next week for the sake of the hypothetical. What I'm concerned about are the other 4-5 spots to give regulars days off, pinch run, etc.

 

My personal votes are:

 

Jeff Cirillo - RH batter, all INF spots except SS are realistic

Gwynn Jr. - LH batter, pinch-running speed & def. sub

ZachJack - LH long reliever/spot starter/competition for CV

FA/Trade-acquired SS/Middle INF - In case Hardy & Hall are injured, also could fill PR role

 

Limit discussion to those 4 or 5 bench spots, please don't take this to a "where should our starters play" debate. I also suggest Jose Vizcaino or a guy like him as that extra middle INF(I see now that the Crew are close to signing Craig Counsell, that works too). Jackson would give the pen more flexibility, being the 2d lefty, and it gives him a chance to pitch at the MLB level, while still competing for a starting role.

 

I left Mench & Clark off the 25-man, since their names are being mentioned as essentially out the door. I didn't include Braun because he can't play short, and I think his role on the 2007 25-man comes if Koskie is injured or traded.

[GAME05]

nice job on putting that all together, although I've got this feeling when DM gets through the Winter Meetings that the locker room is going to need a ton of new nameplates.

[TooLiveBrew]

Thanks, and I agree with you on the state of flux for the roster

[GAME05]

is ZJ ready for a ML roster spot or does he need to develop more? But I can't think of who else would be a better long reliever.

 

I'd sure love to see Cirillo give it one more year. And I definitely agree with Gwynn making the roster, if for anything but to have some speed off the bench.

[brettac1]

It's a waste of a year of service time to have a guy like Jackson be the long reliever. Just throw a Gonzalez or Helling type guy in that spot, a guy who it won't hurt if he only pitches twice a month.

[Brew Man Dan]

What about Sarfate, he can be a 1 inning guy, as well as a long reliever

[TooLiveBrew]

I made sure to mention that ZachJack can serve as a long reliever AND compete for a starting spot. In any event, I disagree that having him in the pen is a waste of a service year.

 

IMO, you waste a guy when you sit him in AAA when he can be of service to your MLB club. We control his contract for many years, there's no need to worry about that.

 

Versatility is a great quality. If Jackson can't handle the LR & Spot Starter role, send him back down. By your logic, we would have left Bill Hall in AAA in 2005, because he would only waste a big league service year as a utility-man. Getting Bill on the field served to help develop one of the better sluggers in MLB.

 

ZachJack sped his way through the minors, and another year there is not as much of a challenge for him to improve. Like I said, if he proves not up to the challenge yet, send him back down. I firmly believe he can help the Brewers in 2007 as a LHP out of the pen, and be a quality, cheap 5th/6th starter

[endaround]

Given that ZackJack was a terrible pitcher in MLB and AAA last year he would hurt your team.

[TooLiveBrew]

Given that you always chime in with one-liners that criticize the thread, I'll go on

[endaround]

I know addressing the point is beneath you but Jackson was bad as a Brewers and was bad in Nashville. Hard to see why he is a good choice for anything.

[TooLiveBrew]

I guess I base my assesment of Jackson on seeing him throw in person a few times last year. While he was no ace, he was much better than Eveland or Hendrickson. I know you have your stats to suggest otherwise, but baseball comes down to gut instincts, and I happen to agree with Melvin's regarding Jackson.

 

Jackson will be a better pitcher in 2007. I'm confident in that. What I fail to understand about your idea is that it doesn't hurt to try him out on Opening Day. Like I said originally, if he doesn't succeed, then send him to AAA. Eveland is great proof that AAA success means squat once you get to the show. Additionally, there's much, much more to baseball than statistics

[endaround]

Jackson had one good game against Cincy and it blocks out everbody's view of what really happened. I saw Jackson pitch and I saw a guy who was hit hard and had trouble pitching. People talk about him controlling walks. Well yeah, if batters are hitting over .300 against him, walks really aren't the problem. He did better than Hendrickson and Eveland but thats hardly anything. He then had problems with AAA hitters.

[dadofandrew]

Remember though, the minors are for learning. We have no idea if Zach was trying to win in AAA or if he was working on his 3rd and 4th pitches quite a bit. If he was a 28 year-old still trying to make it, that's one thing, but after a good start in AAA, and a decent stint in the bigs, he went down and struggled...that would seem to tell me he was working on his secondary stuff.

 

Many harp on Rogers as well, but we all know he can throw hard. He's working on his other pitches and location, and he isn't dominating, but someday, all that work will pay off, if he stays healthy.

[endaround]

Al, he wasn't good in the majors. He was hammered. He had a WHIP of 1.63. And his control in AAA is what's worrisome.

[colbyjack]

I agree with end, that ZachJack didn't pitch as well as everyone seems to remember him.

 

However, it's clear that there are numerous people, myself included, that walked away impressed with his pitching style. He commanded the strike zone really well, and IIRC, he was subject to some pretty bad innings. I remember him pitching 6 innings in one game in which he gave up 5 runs or something like that and reading and hearing the glowing reports about the way he pitched. It's clear he is an advanced pitcher, and is a better pure pitcher than Eveland and some of the other guys he's been compared to.

 

But, the bottom line that endaround keeps repeating ad nauseam is that the results for Jackson need to get significantly better next year, and I wouldn't count on him figuring it out at the big-league level.

[TooLiveBrew]

Ok, so Counsell fills the middle INF/SS backup, so who next? If most people agree that ZachJack is not going to be a capable MLB LHP (which I obviously do not), then do we think adding another is a priority? I personally do.

 

I still stick with renewing Cirillo, and I think having Gwynn Jr. fill out the bench is a great bargain for what he brings. I know TGJ is not too popular on this site, but I think his value is overlooked. I don't think anyone is suggesting he's going to be a big OPS guy, but for the near future, we know his D is more than MLB ready, and his speed is a big plus.

[Bench Coach]

Quote:

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I still stick with renewing Cirillo, and I think having Gwynn Jr. fill out the bench is a great bargain for what he brings. I know TGJ is not too popular on this site, but I think his value is overlooked. I don't think anyone is suggesting he's going to be a big OPS guy, but for the near future, we know his D is more than MLB ready, and his speed is a big plus.

---

 

My main concern with that, is his hitting is what is holding him back. Sitting on our bench as a pinch runner/defensive replacement will likely hurt his growth. He needs to be getting consistent at bats in AAA.

[TooLiveBrew]

I hear you, but who then? We clearly need a speed guy off the bench for late innings situations, etc. I just don't know that there are affordable options. The Shannon Stewart rumor was shot down by Melvin, and that would have been an expensive replacement.

 

All's well and good to hope that AAA will help Gwynn become a more consistent hitter. I think it's clear AAA helped Hart in 2006. But to what, exactly, does Gwynn project? Is he a viable option as an everyday MLB CF? If not, utilize his stengths (speed, D) to help the Brewers win now and in the future. Injuries are a part of the game, and it's not unreasonable to estimate 200 or more MLB ABs for him in 2007 (Gross got 208 in 2006). Adding in his value for non-hitting situations, I can't find a better option than Gwynn

[pogokat]

i don't really believe in AAA...

 

I don't think anyone gets better there---i think that players prove themselves in AA, then AAA is just a holding pen...i think AA success is much more indicative of what a guy will do in the majors than AAA

 

and i think the brewers tend to agree, considering they have jumped a few guys up in the last few years...i think milwaukee uses AAA to get a good look at you, but i don't think success there really helps your career in milwaukee...

 

just ask ben hendrickson...

 

of course, this is just myu opinion...but i kinda agree with the idea that a guy like TGJ is more useful as the 5th outfielder for the brewers than he is in AAA...but maybe not with a pitcher like zach jackson...

[endaround]

No, Milwaukee treats AAA more as a stepping stone than most franchises. Otherwise Hart, Prince, and Braun wouldn't have ever played there. Even Weeks had to hit there first. The only position player not to really prove himself at AAA is Hardy. That hasn't worked out all that well.

[pogokat]

i would argue that hart prince and braun (who btw, has NOT played in AAA yet) only stayed in AAA as long as they did because they were blocked...

 

afterall, the brewers moved fielder to the majors to ride pine...same with hart...i don't think they take it very seriously...the top prospects push somebody out of the way...everybody else just chills until they are inevitably trade (eveland krynzel) or released...