Zack Greinke

[crewcrazy]

Greinke for Braun is a more likely deal.

I have a hard time believing KC would even do that deal. They'd probably want something over-the-top like Braun, Gamel, and Gallardo (someone to replace Greinke in the rotation, and Yo is the only attractive young pitcher that can contribute now that the Brewers have). IMO, it would be great to have a guy like Greinke around, but the Brewers just aren't a match.

 

Rumors like this give TH plenty of opportunity to toot his "blogs are evil" horn, though. From Twitter:

 

Some know-nothing posts a Greinke-to-Brewers blog and gets what he obviously wants: attention. Never mind how ridiculous it is.

[bklynbrewcrew]

There is no way I would trade Braun for Greinke.

[yoshii8]

Obviously the Royals are not going to be trading Zack Grienke this season, but a package of Hardy, Gamel, Parra and Salome is a pretty big package. What could we realistically expect in return for those 4 players? I would think that would be enough for an ace pitcher.

[Hate those Rodents]

I don't know what that foursome would yield in a trade. Parra has yet to show he deserves to be in any MLB rotation yet, Gamel had a poor second half and still might not be able to stick at third base, Salome is pretty much seen as an afterthought by quite a few around these parts due to his lack of defensive skills, and Hardy had a really bad season. This is just the pessimist part of me. Realistically, need to shed more positive light on all of these. Still, there are enough warts here to probably keep us from getting an ace. Maybe one year of Halladay, but I am not sure.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Greinke is the only type of pitcher I would be willing to trade Gamel for. I dont want any part of a one year rental for a guy that has a chance to be a star.

[thebruce44]

There is no way I would trade Braun for Greinke.

 

Greinke is the only type of pitcher I would be willing to trade Gamel for.

 

Greinke WAR 2009: 9.4

Braun WAR 2009: 4.7

Gamel WAR 2009: 0.5

 

Obviously a lot more to it than that, but I think its fairly clear which player is the most valuable of those three at this point. 9.4 WAR from a pitcher is just stupid good.

[TooLiveBrew]

Some know-nothing posts a Greinke-to-Brewers blog and gets what he obviously wants: attention. Never mind how ridiculous it is.

Funny, I remember some know-nothing at the JS posting that Ned Yost was going to be fired in the middle of the '08 season... whoops.

[logan82]

thebruce44 wrote:

Greinke WAR 2009: 9.4

Braun WAR 2009: 4.7

Gamel WAR 2009: 0.5

 

Obviously a lot more to it than that, but I think its fairly clear which player is the most valuable of those three at this point. 9.4 WAR from a pitcher is just stupid good.

A couple problems I have with this comparison. Gamel only played a short time. The batting line he put up was league average. Depending on his defense, he would be about 2 WAR over a full season as a league average player. I would say Gamel is a better than league average hitter and probably below average in the field. I think 2 WAR is probably a little low on an estimate for Gamel.

 

Greinke was a 9.4 WAR in 2009. That doesn't mean he is a 9.4 WAR pitcher. I think Braun is clearly less valuable than Greinke, but the WAR's you presented are very misleading. Gamel and Braun over a full season would probably have a total WAR at least in the 6.5-7.5 range. A WAR for a pitcher much over 7.5 looks pretty rare.

 

 

Edit: I guess thank you to TH and Trenni for looking into the Greinke rumors, if TH even did more than a snotty tweet.

[endaround]

Given that TH was likely the cause of the rumor its the least he could do. Absolutely the least.

[trwi7]

Drew Olson was the cause of the rumor when he proposed it to TH, then this blogger said that he had "sources" that said the trade was "imminent".

 

I have no problem with that blogger being ripped on. I don't have a problem writing a blog about it and discussing the pros and cons of doing the deal from either side, but to say it's imminent and already agreed upon is stupid.

[chadomac]

I would do the initial rumored deal in an instant. Got my hopes up a little bit when I started reading this!

[Invader3K]

Well, the initial trade idea didn't even make that much sense. Hardy wouldn't have much appeal to KC, and still, there's not much reason for them to give up the probable Cy Young Award winner. Would be nice for the Brewers, though.

[kramnoj]

Funny, I remember some know-nothing at the JS posting that Ned Yost was going to be fired in the middle of the '08 season... whoops.

 

Unless I am misreading you, TH didn't report that Yost was going to be fired. He wrote about a blog that was getting attention and he gave reasons to suspect the truth of the claim. He was reacting to something that had already got enough attention that he was woken up to investigate it and respond to it.

 

Here is the link of TH's initial blog: http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/05/19/blogger-claims-yost-to-be-fired.aspx

[paul253]

The Royals would be dumb to trade Greinke for anything right now it is not like the AL central is some strong division that they need a lot of talent to win it. I think the Royals are closer than people think to competing again now only if their GM would wise up and stop wasting money on bad free agents.

 

The Royals would not be dumb to trade him. They were supposed to be close this season and they took a HUGE step backwards. They don't just need a player or two to improve, they need a lot. Alex Gordon in quickly fading into oblivion (37 career HR's in 1200 at bats, with a .331 OBP) For as good of a year as Greinke had they still lost 97 games. If they trade him now they'd be maximizing his value and could get 4 or 5 very good players in return. I don't know what their system looks like so I don't know exactly what they would need in return, but Gamel and Salome are two really good prospects. People are so quick to write off Salome but look what he did in Huntsville a year ago. And I know he finished really strong this past season too because he got off to a horrible start and ended up with decent numbers. I'm not sure about Parra and Hardy going, but I'm sure they'd be willing to look at some of our pitchers like Rivas, Anundsen, Scarpetta, and so on if thats what they need.

[TheCrew07]

Again why are we trading Gamel who's a lefty to keep a righty in McGehee? The organization is awfully thin when it comes to LH guys with power. Gamel, Green, Gindl, and Dennis are it as of today, and I'm not sure Green, Gindl, and Dennis will ever hit 20 HRs in MLB, they all could but I'm not going to bank on that possibly. Dennis probably has the greatest upside of that group and I liked what I saw of him and his bat in WI, but he wasn't healthy most of the year and has a long way to go regardless. However, I have no problem stating that Gamel will hit 25 or more HR in every season he's healthy. He's more athletic than Casey, has a better arm, more power, greater potential at the plate, and has greater positional flexibility down the road. McGehee is a 3B or LF... Gamel could play 3B, RF, 1B, and LF if he doesn't stick at 3B.

* I know Casey played 2nd, but he has horrible range there, and it's just not his knee. He's not exceedingly quick, he doesn't have above average foot speed, nor does he have Hardy's instincts. He's an adequate sub, but I wouldn't want him there as an everyday player outside of injury replacement.

 

We have plenty of players with power from the right side of the plate, lets not get carried away trading away our only LH impact bat behind Fielder. And ahh, Fielder is a FA after 2011, where will the LH power come from then? A FA? If so, whom? We should be trading from a position of strength to fill our holes... just like how it doesn't make sense to trade pitching for pitching, it doesn't make sense to trade the only other LH impact bat in the system besides Fielder.

 

If any deal isn't possible without trading Parra and/or Gamel then I don't think Melvin was targeting the proper players. Given the payroll situation already for 2010 we shouldn't be going after "name" players, we should be chasing upside, players that pitched in AA or higher last season with legit stuff. I like the idea of a Morrow or Arrieta type... guys with legit stuff who aren't a #1 pitcher in the rotation or the top prospect of an organization but have some upside. I personally am not looking for a 95 mph fastball (though it would be nice), just someone who works consistently in the low/mid 90s like Yo (even a tick down from Yo in the 91-92 range would be fine) who will be effective and efficient with his pitches.

[kramnoj]

Again why are we trading Gamel who's a lefty to keep a righty in McGehee?

 

Because he would bring back more value.

 

And ahh, Fielder is a FA after 2011, where will the LH power come from then?

 

I don't think Melvin's job right now should be to try and build a handed balanced team for 2012 and beyond, his job is to build the best overall team he can to contend in 2010 while still maintaining a good base to contend in the future.

 

Is there some hard evidence that teams need left handed hitters to contend? Seems to me that the best team would be great RH hitters because they would be good against RHP and should be great against LHP. Having LH hitters generally just makes the team vulnerable to LHP.

[TheCrew07]

Both Gamel and Fielder hit LHP extremely well, but generally I agree with your point.

 

The one advantage having left handed hitters would be breaking up the lineup so that a manager would have use more RP or leave a guy out on the mound in a matchup that favors the batter. It may not have an effect on the outcome of the specific inning, but moving later into the game the chances of seeing a gassed or ineffective reliever increase because there are fewer pitchers available in the bullpen. For example I'd much rather force LaRussa to use 3 pitchers going through 3,4,5 in the order in a tight game than use 1.