If Counsell + Stewart, then Hardy or Hall gone?

[AJ Love]

In his 20 years of playing, Cal Ripken Jr only had a couple of season where he bettered Bill Hall's SLG% of 2005, let alone 2006. And Ripken Jr never hit 35 HR's in a season.

 

It is completely perplexing to me why anyone would want to move Bill Hall out of being the every day SS for the Brewers.

 

Trading Hardy? That I could see...

[thefutureishere2006]

how many of these "trade rumors" end up true anyway...we can't trade hall unless it is for a true ace...peavy...carpenter..type...

[GAME05]

I suppose I'm not totally against trading Bill Hall, just from a trade-high philosophy, but what makes me sad about the thought of it all is that it feels like we've regressed two years to where we're trading away our marquee players for building blocks.

[skoneybones]

Quote:

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Here is what I was thinking...

 

Angels get: Ramirez

Brewers get: Figgins (and/or Rivera), Santana

Red Sox get: Hall, Turnbow

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Seems plausible -- I was at an event a couple weeks ago and Gord Ash spoke about the offseason. Turnbow had been pulling quite a bit of interest at the time and thoughts were that he took too many points of advice during the all star break and goofed up his mechanics momentarily. Seemed as though many think he'll come back A-OK.

[billyhallfan]

I think I might cry if Hall gets dealt...

 

Ok, not really, but if they are going to trade him they better do it for solid major league help.

[princeginterhallhelms04]

Hmmm for how cold we were it seems like brewer rumors are heating up! Personally i would not trade Hall, unless i get a great haul in return and in that respect i do have a lot of faith in Melvin. But still not looking to move him.

Turnbow is interesting i would want to keep him at least for one more year and make sure it was not just a freak season. We could really have a heck of a one two punch if we could get turnbow to pitch like before.

[pogokat]

trading hall doesnt seem like a great idea at the moment, but i'm enjoying all the trade rumor threads this offseason...

 

i would take this one about as seriously as me trying to ship of tony gwynn jr. last year...

[princeginterhallhelms04]

Like i stated before it's really heated up trade rumors wise. Wonder how the traffic on brewerfan.net has spiked at all because of these rumors?

[billyhallfan]

Why not just trade Hardy? That way you can leave Hall at short, where he prefers, give left to Hart since he is not awsome at defense, then sign Lofton to help Gross cover the load in center. I absolutely hate the idea of trading Hall. IMO, this team is a middle of the order bat away and maybe a pitcher away from being a contender, if you deal Hall you are not going to get both of those, you will only get one, maybe... Other than Fielder he is the only guy that hits for legitimate power, you could maybe bring Koskie or Jenkins into the picture, but I don't really don't see either of them hitting 35 hr's next year.

[sbrylski]

Why not just trade Hardy?

 

Because we'd be selling low. With Hall we'd be selling high.

 

Personally, I don't see Hall quite repeating what he did last year and I don't see him resigning with Milwaukee down the road if he does continue to slug .550. I wouldn't cry if he was traded, but I'd hope we get something to show off in return.

[fleehaw]

If the Brewers could pull Rivera & Santana for Hall, they would be fools not to do it. Pitching gets a lot better and offense stays the same.

 

Rivera is exactly what the Brewers are looking for. Great defense, doesn't strike out. Here's his '06.

G-AB-R-H-HR-RBI-BB-K-OBP-SLG-AVG.

124 448 65 139 23 85 33 59 0 4 .362 .525 .310

 

It's not far-fetched to believe he would have put up better numbers than Hall if he got another 150 AB, albeit in the OF instead of SS. Plus, he has the same service time as Hall and I believe he's 28.

 

Adding Santana would make the starting pitching a real plus. Best staff in the NL Central for sure (even with the Cubs supposedly signing Schmidt).

[sbrylski]

Yes, I would love to see a Hall for Santana + Rivera, even if we had to add another role player.

[fleehaw]

I will add this caveat to support trading Hall. If Hall is traded for the package mentioned above or one similar, I think outside help is needed at CF or 3B.

 

I would be hesistant to go into the season with a Koskie/Cirillo platoon at 3B & a Gross/Clark? in CF. One of those platoons would be fine, like the 3B platoon & Crawford in CF.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[endaround]

Rivera had a great year as a 28 year old. As a 27 year old he was:

 

.271/.316/.454

 

For his career:

.291/.341/.474

 

Which is distinctly average for an outfielder. He may have reached a new plateu, but that is a risk.

 

VORPs from last season:

 

Hall (as SS) 44.3

Rivera 33.5 (100 less PAs)

Santana 30.2

[sbrylski]

So you wouldn't like that deal, End?

 vRHP vLHP 2004 .858 .785 2005 .824 .688 2006 .852 .970

 

He's been pretty consistent against RHP, but suddenly he found out how to mash LHP, like he's supposed to. (Not unlike one Billy Hall.)

 

Can he keep that up? Maybe not, but even if he does regress back down to a .840 OPS its still a good deal, IMO.

[colbyjack]

Rivera's numbers actually look pretty similar to those of Carlos Lee through the same age.

 

And the deal to me really is Santana. I really can't believe that his name has been tossed around so much. His numbers look great for a 23-year old, and of course you wouldn't have to worry about free agency with him for a good four years.

 

It's fun to pretend http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif .

[hawing]

I think I might cry if Hall gets dealt...

 

billyhallfan, welcome to my world this week. (OK, not quite. But perhaps you get the picture.)

 

At least you wouldn't be in the minority in your sadness.

 

In Doug I trust.

[UndraftedFA]

Does anyone else think the reason Melvin may have mentioned LF for Hall was only b/c of their desire to acquire Roberts or Pierre? Now that they are gone, maybe Melvin doesn't feel too bad about Hall in CF. I know I wouldn't. I think he's our best option for CF next season.

 

I wouldn't cry if we shifted Jenkins back to left, Hall in CF, and Hart in RF. I think that would be a pretty good defensive OF.

[sbrylski]

I wouldn't cry if we shifted Jenkins back to left, Hall in CF, and Hart in RF. I think that would be a pretty good defensive OF.

 

Many here, including myself, want to see it anyway.

[Bench Coach]

Quote:

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I wouldn't cry if we shifted Jenkins back to left, Hall in CF, and Hart in RF. I think that would be a pretty good defensive OF.

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Add in the fact that for all intensive purposes this is a contract year for Jenkins. There is an option, but not very likely that it will be exercised. So he will be playing for his next contract.

[endaround]

My problem is that if Rivera just falls back to his career norms, the Brewers offense could easily be putrid. You can point to what, catcher and maybe 3B to be above average offensively next season without Hall? And we're not talking about world beaters there. It would be entering the season with a great staff but just hope that the offense can do enough to score.

[Weirdos19]

How about this boys?

 

Angels get Ramirez

 

Brewers get Santana, Angels reliever (they have a glut)

 

Red Sox get Hardy, Jenks, Turnbow

 

 

Now this makes sense for everybody. Brewers clear salary and get a big, young starter. Red Sox get their SS of the future, a RF to replace Nixon, and the reliever they supposedly are interested in.

 

I LOVE this trade.

[Oldcity]

Why would the Red Sox give up Manny Ramirez for Jenkins, Hardy and Turnbow? That's one of the best hitters ever for two guys who stunk last year, and another who was injured.

[Nader Raider Tim]

Ok since this is all pure speculation on our part I will throw my 2 cents into the conversation. Hypothetically speaking if the Brewers/Red Sox/Angels are looking at pulling of a trade, I would think a few things would be relatively probable to happen.

 

First: Manny would obviosally go to the Red Sox, so they are going to need equal compensation. (No offense but Jenkins, Turnbow, et. al. isn't going to work for them

 

Two: Chone Figgins would be involved. The Angels have obviousally been shopping him and have little use for him. I believe Melvin was quoted as saying finding a leadoff hitting speedy CF was the top priority of the offseason.

 

Three: Santana would have to be involved in some facet, another player they have obviousally been shopping. They also seem to have Wood, Kendrick Weaver as untouchable, so Santana would be escential for aquiring a player of Manny caliber.

 

So logically a starting point of any transaction would be as follows:

 

Red Sox - Ervin Santana

 

Brewers - Chone Figgins

 

Angels - Manny Ramirez

 

How do you even out the values? Who would be most likely for the Brewers to trade?

 

My rough estimate would be something along the lines of:

 

Red Sox: JJ Hardy, Ervin Santana, Scott Shields

 

Brewers - Chone Figgins, Rob Quinlann

 

Angels - Manny Ramirez, Zach Jackson

 

 

I personally think that is a pretty even transaction, that is beneficial to all involved. In regards to the Brewers portion of this HYPOTHETICAL transaction, would Figgins and Quinlann be equal to JJ Hardy and Zach Jackson?

 

 

EDIT:This is what the lineup would look like:

 

1 - Chone Figgins

2 - Rickie Weeks

3 - Prince Fielder

4 - Billie Hall

5 - Corey Hart

6 - Geoff Jenkins / Kevin Mench (Platoon)

7 - Johnnie Estrada

8 - Corey Koskie / Rob Quinlan (With Braun hopefully demanding this spot

 

I would like that lineup. After this year Gross and Mench could platoon in LF or the Brewers could look to improve outside the organization. Also hopefully Braun will have pushed his way into the 3rd base job.

[trwi7]

Quote:

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Red Sox: JJ Hardy, Ervin Santana, Scott Shields

 

Brewers - Chone Figgins, Rob Quinlann

 

Angels - Manny Ramirez, Zach Jackson

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If all we get for Hardy and Jackson is Figgins and Quinlan I'd just keep Jackson and Hardy.