If Counsell + Stewart, then Hardy or Hall gone?

[colbyjack]

Given the recent rumors that the Brewers are pursuing both Craig Counsell and Shannon Stewart, does this hint at all that one of either J.J. Hardy or Billy Hall is on the block? Unless Hall is slated to play CF, but Melvin really hasn't seemed to be too keen on that, even if the rest of us would like to see it.

 

Stewart really can't play anywhere but LF, and Counsell obviously would be brought in to give the team a utility IF that can actually play SS (Graffy can play SS in a pinch I'm sure, but Counsell is a more reliable backup plan).

 

If the team intends to keep both Hall or Hardy, I wouldn't sign either Stewart or Counsell. IMO, the Brewers don't need a backup SS even if Hardy (or Hall) goes down since Hall could always slide back to SS if needed.

 

I just sense that there could be something bigger going on with this series of events.

[endaround]

Or maybe they finally realized that Hardy should be in AAA for the foreseeable future.

[cooprules]

I'm starting to think the same way. But it's confusing to me.

 

Hardy doesn't have the trade value at this point and Hall is just too good and cheap to trade. I just don't get it. I hope Stewart does not happen and the Counsell signing was just a Graffy replacement.

[Bench Coach]

Counsell wont happen, it looks like he is going to San Diego.

 

Counsell to Padres

[JohnBriggs12]

endaround, we agree on something!!!

 

Counsell makes sense. They want Graffanino back so I think they see the need for a utility middle infielder.

 

Stewart and Counsell spells trouble for Koskie or as endaround suggests Hardy. Why have Hall move to LF if they think enough of Stewart?

 

Everyday, more names kept getting thrown in the hopper. Trying to sort it all out is impossible.

[sbrylski]

Like I have stated earlier, I am nervously sensing a Hall trade.

 

1.) Teams know we have two SS, so by stating we are more than happy to play Hall in LF would increase his trade value.

 

2.) We already have 7 OFers and are being rumored to be in the market for more.

 

3.) If we trade Hall, we would need a backup SS who can handle the position defensively, so we are going to sign Craig Counsell.

[brewerfan82]

Quote:

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Counsell wont happen, it looks like he is going to San Diego.

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Bench Coach --

 

That was so this morning...

 

Sounds like that was a false report and Counsell will be back with the Crew.

[cooprules]

Quote:

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Counsell wont happen, it looks like he is going to San Diego.

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I can't believe I'm on the edge of my seat over Craig Counsell. I think the yahoo thing is the older story. I don't know.

[sbrylski]

Either way, one of us is getting Counsell and the other is getting Graffy.

 

EDIT: Rosenthal's "Counsell to Brewers" story was posted an hour ago.

[brewerfan82]

lol. This Google news search on "Craig Counsell" should clear things up:

 

Counsell news search

 

37 minutes ago: "Report: Padres to ink versatile Counsell"

50 minutes ago: "Report: Brewers to sign Counsell"

1 hour ago: "Report: Padres to ink versatile Counsell"

1 hour ago: "Brewers closing in on Counsell"

4 hours go: "Craig Counsell: Reaches Agreement With San Diego"

[colbyjack]

Bench Coach, according to Rosenthal, the Padres deal with Counsell is off the table, with the Brewers now reportedly after Counsell and the Padres back to targeting Graffanino:

 

msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6214970

 

Somehow though I keep thinking Carl Crawford. TB could use a shortstop.

 

If TB deals Crawford, I'm sure it will be for pitching and more pitching.

 

I agree that this series of possible acquisitions may not mean anything, but again, I just get a sense that Hall may be on the move. If Crawford were a possible trade target, I think it would have to be as part of a 3-way deal.

 

Hall to the Angels makes sense, where they could make him their everyday 3B.

 

Hall to the Red Sox also makes a lot of sense to me, where he could be their everyday SS. He could be involved in a possible 3-way deal involving Manny Ramirez, as I don't see Ramirez in Milwaukee.

[danzig6767]

Just throwing this out there

 

I read on a Bucks board that a guy heard Boston/Angels are talking about Manny and that he heard Boston has interest in Turnbow,who knows if it's true.

 

Let's say part of a trade for Manny involved Figgins and they don't get Lugo to be their SS,would they possibly pawn off either Figgins or Crisp to Milwaukee for something involving say Hardy/Turnbow?

 

Doubtful Boston would want such a young SS,but Theo doesn't seen adverse to playing youth.

[Bench Coach]

Quote:

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Bench Coach, according to Rosenthal, the Padres deal with Counsell is off the table, with the Brewers now reportedly after Counsell and the Padres back to targeting Graffanino:

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It's tough to keep track of all these updates during the day. And to think it's not even the winter meetings yet.

[brewerfan82]

Quote:

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Hall to the Red Sox also makes a lot of sense to me, where he could be their everyday SS. He could be involved in a possible 3-way deal involving Manny Ramirez, as I don't see Ramirez in Milwaukee.

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Interestingly enough...a poster on the Bucks RealGM board mentioned "a friend" saying there was a Manny deal to Anaheim in the works and that the Brewers were somehow involved...

 

But even he said it was likely BS, so I wouldn't count on it. But I thought it was interesting that you brought it up.

 

Edit: I see Danzig beat me to it

[JohnBriggs12]

It's like having a back and forth game going on all afternoon.

[colbyjack]

danzig, that's pretty much what I was thinking, especially with the rumored Figgins/Santana for Crede/Garcia deal (which doesn't make much sense for the Angels to me) out there.

 

Here is what I was thinking...

 

Angels get: Ramirez

Brewers get: Figgins (and/or Rivera), Santana

Red Sox get: Hall, Turnbow

 

That doesn't seem like enough for Hall, but I really like Santana, and who knows, maybe the Brewers can flip Santana and something else for Crawford. The Red Sox don't need any more starters, which is why they probably would be looking for a CF or a SS.

 

Just some thoughts...

[cooprules]

Quote:

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Doubtful Boston would want such a young SS,but Theo doesn't seen adverse to playing youth.

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I listen to WEEI (Boston) at least for a while everyday and they were saying Lugo was almost a done deal. But there's rumors flying all over the place. I just wouldn't be in favor of trading Hall right now.

[SoCalBrewfan]

What does a bidding war for Craig Counsell look like? Prolly like the battle for the last piece of pumpkin pie after thanksgiving dinner in the oh-so-polite midwest:

 

Melvin: It's OK Kevin, you can have it.

Towers: No, I think I'm ok.

Melvin: Are you sure? I don't really need to have it.

Towers: Well, if you really didn't want it, I'd eat it, but only if you really didn't want it.

Melvin: Oh, if you want it, you should have it. I would only take it if you really didn't want it.

Towers: It's probably better if you take it.

etc.

[Hammer]

Wow, I'm not a big fan of losing Halls stick in the line-up but getting Santana, Figgins and the normal prospect throw-ins that Melvin usually squeezes would make for a productive day. Who would be the prospect targets from the BoSox or the Angels?

[MNBrew]

1. Stewart makes no sense other than the fact that he's the type of hitter we haven't had. That plantar fasciatis (sp?) is nasty stuff and creeps back way too easily. So he doesn't have significant wheels and has a pus arm. Since the NL has no DH except in a half-dozen road interleague games, I can't begin to see how Stewart realistically would fit into the Brewers' scheme unless we purge 3-4 other outfielders first. So I cannot see how this might mean Hardy is gone.

 

2. If the Brewers sign Counsell, then it means no Graffanino. If Graffanino, then it means Plan B Counsell. Since re-signing Graffanino didn't mean "no more Hardy," I fail to see how signing Counsell could mean that.

 

The whole point of Counsell is that Graffanino wouldn't be here and the Brewers would still need a utility IF who could play SS, which is the only position Cirillo probably shouldn't play for any length of time.

 

All that said, I'd rather have Tony Gr. over Counsell any day and twice on Tuesdays.

[JohnBriggs12]

Figgins or Rivera and Santana for Hall?

 

Not bad return there, but lets expand it a little and try to get Scot Shields thrown in.

[brewerfan82]

I'd do a Rivera and Santana deal for Hall (Especially if we're taking him out of the infield anyway).

 

I don't have much desire for Figgins though.

[splitterpfj]

I don't see why Counsell coming here would mean Hardy or Hall would go, Counsell should fill a utility role, shouldn't he?

 

I suppose it's possible Hall or Hardy could go, but an addition of Counsell doesn't indicate that to me. Shannon Stewart is the part that mixes things up, I hope that doesn't happen.

[Blazer25]

Pardon my ignorance but if we trade Hall doesn't that make us a bunch worse offensively?

 

Aren't we looking for that "premier bat". Why would we trade the closest thing we have to that? That's about as bad a move as it comes.

 

Please Doug, don't trade our best MLB player.

[AJ Love]

I think trading Bill Hall would be foolish unless he brings a Jake Peavy type possible Cy Young pitcher, and even then I wouldn't do it. If he is left at SS and continues to hit like in '05/'06, he is putting up Hall of Fame type numbers. You don't trade players like that, nor should you move them out of position. The only reason I could see trading him is if he's impossible to sign longterm.

 

check out Cal Ripken Jr's stats, he had only one season where he bettered the OPS Hall had last year

 

www.baseball-reference.co...ca01.shtml

 

Reggie Jackson and Eddie Murray both had career OPS numbers at .842 or less