Gerut's platoon partner possibilities

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I think part of it is they probably figure they have to hold the line "somewhere". Though Cashman's demand for the Brewers to eat some or most of Cameron's salary still seems odd.

[nate82]

Cameron is not going to be getting anything more than $8m a season on the open market. The Angels offered Abreu a 2-year $16m contract and of course Abreu rejected it thinking he will get more on the FA market which he won't. So Cameron won't get anything more than $8m in free agency I don't know where everyone keeps on bringing up Cameron getting $10m he won't get that in the FA market even with so little CF on the market. Cameron is going to get $6-8m a year and I'm going to guess this will be Cameron's last contract so he is probably looking for a 2-3 year deal I don't see a 3-year deal being available for Cameron though even 2-years is pushing it at Cameron's age. I believe the Brewers will resign Cameron at 2-years $14m which would be a bargain.

 

DM would then trade Hart along with Hardy for some pitching and then find a $1-3m platoon option for Gerut in RF.

[Invader3K]

I they can get him for like 2 years and $14 million total, I would be OK with that. It's just when it creeps up to that 10 million/per mark that I think it's questionable.

[kramnoj]

I think any budget they impose upon themselves regarding player costs is more for political / public relation reasons versus having to worry about actually having to enough money to cover the payroll.

 

Why do you think that? If the Yankees had the ability to spend more money but didn't and didn't reach their desired goals, how does that help their PR? If they were worried about negative PR, they wouldn't sell seats for $2500 each.

 

The Yankees payroll went from $107M in 2000 to $208M in 2005. Their revenues didn't double during that time. They have been operating at a loss for years now because they have borrowed money to massively expand payroll and to get YES off the ground. And it has worked, because the franchise value has significantly increased and they have were able to build NYS that will reduce their obligation to the league.

[Baldkin]

They have been operating at a loss for years now because they have borrowed money to massively expand payroll and to get YES off the ground.

Their payroll may be less than they get from money through the turnstiles but the YES network brought in 350 million in revenue (over 11 million subscribers) for 2007, with similar numbers in the last 2 years. I'm not sure how you can call that "operating at a loss"

[Invader3K]

Oh, there's no doubt the Yankees are a cash cow these days. Maybe a few years ago they were taking on a loss when they were building up YES, but I really doubt they aren't making millions nowadays.

[kramnoj]

Their payroll may be less than they get from money through the turnstiles but the YES network brought in 350 million in revenue (over 11 million subscribers) for 2007, with similar numbers in the last 2 years. I'm not sure how you can call that "operating at a loss"

 

Easy. First, revenue does not equal profit. Secondly, the Yankees don't own 100% of YES.

[JohnBriggs12]

Cameron might be the most polarizing Brewer player I can remember in recent years.

 

Some love him. Some hate him. There seems to be very little in between - and even fewer who can be converted from one category to the other.

 

Dan Needles on the D-List (AM 540) really disliked Cameron's production. He is so animated and passionate that it really bothers me, because I am strictly in the "love" category.

 

That said, Kapler would be a nice addition. He can play the RH side of the CF platoon and be a great bat off the bench. I'd like our odds with Counsell or Kapler as our pinch hitters.

Thinking a guy is overpaid and not a good fit in your lineup isn't hate, it's realistically assessing where a guy fits in your lineup. Cameron is a contact challenged, mid 20's HR, .250 hitting right handed bat in a lineup (in 08 and starting 09) full of basically that same type of hitter (Hart, Weeks, Hardy, Hall) and he was getting paid a lot. That he lost his 5th spot in the lineup to a rookie in Casey McGehee who drove in runs at a much higher rate, is really an indication that the Brewers weren't getting offensively what they needed out of Cameron. Braun and Fielder were on base a ton. Cameron had 4 more RBI than McGehee in nearly 200 more AB's. McGehee is now settled in as the number 5 hitter. Hall is gone, with Hardy soon to follow. Cameron might not be such a redundant weapon anymore, but he'll be 37 next year. It's time to move on. He's not worth anywhere near $8 million much less $10 million. I'd put his value to the Brewers in the $4-5 million range and that's mostly because his defense is still solid. To another team his value might be a little higher than that because he's a better fit in their lineup. Offensively, he's a $3 million player.

[Never Outhustled]

Thinking a guy is overpaid and not a good fit in your lineup isn't hate, it's realistically assessing where a guy fits in your lineup.

Good thing where a guy fits in your lineup is completely irrelevent to Runs Scored. The teams that score the most runs have the highest OPS. Thats fact. Cameron has a high OPS for his position. Thats fact. If the team replaces Cameron with a lower OPS performer, they'll score fewer runs. Thats fact.

 

Cameron was 4.5 Wins Above Replacement this year because he performed extremely well compared to his peers. He has been ben the best dollar/production performer of any free agent signed for $6 million or more in the 2007 offseason. Its extremely likely that he'll be the same this offseason. The team could spend his money on other FA's, but only if the want to make the team worse.

[joepepsi]

I they can get him for like 2 years and $14 million total, I would be OK with that. It's just when it creeps up to that 10 million/per mark that I think it's questionable.

Agree completely. I think the Brewers need to trim $15-20 million off the 2009 payroll before they can look at building up the 2010 payroll. If the Brewers are forced to offer Cameron arbitration to get him back, then he's going to get a raise. If he can be persuaded to sign a 2 year deal that trims off a few million in 2010, I'm all for bringing him back. They'll be able to more easily afford him in 2011 when Hall and Suppan are off the books.

 

Maybe he'd accept a 2 year deal that trims off money in the first year and gives him some back + incentives in 2011.

[Invader3K]

And really, what should be more important to him at this point in his career? Making a couple extra million, or possbily winning a championship? I know that's easy to say as a fan; but if he sits there and demands $10 million+ when he knows it will limit the team's ability to add starting pitching, then I probably don't want him back, personally.

[TooLiveBrew]

Offensively, he's a $3 million player.

 

A top-10 offensive CF in MLB, and you're estimating $3M... your lack of appreciation for Cameron is mind-boggling. 'Well, he's older' wasn't right last offseason & it isn't right this offseason.

[TheCrew07]

Cameron doesn't strike me as a guy who will fall off a cliff production wise, I would expect some sort of decline though over the next couple of years. He's put together pretty well and doesn't carry much/if any excess weight that would make me concerned about a nose dive in production. He'll likely be a in a slow/steady decline in the field until he retires as he will inevitably loose some foot speed, but who knows what he'll do at the plate, I would expect some drop off in the coming years but his bat speed has never been an issue. He just swings through pitches on occassion and tends to take close pitches... sometimes he walks, sometimes he strikes out when he takes, but that's not a physical issue.

[Ennder]

The Angels offered Abreu a 2-year $16m contract and of course Abreu rejected it thinking he will get more on the FA market which he won't. So Cameron won't get anything more than $8m in free agency I don't know where everyone keeps on bringing up Cameron getting $10m

 

Cameron is better than Abreu so I would think he should get more money than him.

[joepepsi]

Cameron doesn't strike me as a guy who will fall off a cliff production wise, I would expect some sort of decline though over the next couple of years. ... but who knows what he'll do at the plate, I would expect some drop off in the coming years but his bat speed has never been an issue. He just swings through pitches on occassion and tends to take close pitches... sometimes he walks, sometimes he strikes out when he takes, but that's not a physical issue.

One of these years he'll hit less than 15 home runs and strike out closer to 200 times. Then the world will know he's done. As long as he's hitting 20-some homers with a league average obp, he's an asset on offense.

[Hate those Rodents]

Ouch! I certainly don't want to give Cameron anything approaching 20 million over two years. I will gladly go with Gerut if it's anything more than one year and 6-7 million.

[nate82]

Cameron is better than Abreu so I would think he should get more money than him.

Yeah but taking age into account and Cameron is only about a year older than Abreu. The market for older players is not that great in free agency just look at last year Dunn and Abreu had to take discounts. If this next off season is anything like the last then I wouldn't expect Cameron to get anything more than $10m a season. He maybe worth that but I don't see many teams looking to add an aging CF. The market for Cameron is going to be rather small I believe and I believe Abreu will actually get more money than Cameron will get. I believe Cameron will get close to what the Angels offered Abreu.

[Ennder]

Oh I agree, $8-10M is probably the range for him, maybe a tiny bit higher since the CF market is so dead but that just depends on which teams are willing to spend on CF.

[logan82]

Abreu and Dunn are terrible defenders. I really don't think age was/is the issue with either Dunn or Abreu. Cameron is a good defender who can hit.

[Polish Falcons]

It seems like this thread has really gone off track with lots of repetitive back-and-forth about resigning Cameron (or not) that exists on several other threads on top of the redundancy here. The idea behind the inital thread seemed more interesting. Let's assume Cameron is back (meaning the discussion is not about Cameron) and Hart is traded (because we need pitching and he might be a good bargaining chip). Who might be a good low-cost right field replacement or platoon partner for Gerut?

[PrinceFielderx1]

What about a Gerut and Cain platoon? If Cain can do well in the Arizona Fall League I might consider him a possibility.

[joepepsi]

I'll stick with Kapler. Good at all OF positions and kills lefty pitching. Should be pretty cheap too.

[Hate those Rodents]

I'd rather wait on Cain until he's ready to play full-time. In fact, I guess that's my philosophy for any positon player (with the exception of the catcher position where I believe more days off are fine given the stress on the knees so I'd be fine with Salome splitting time). And don't even get me going on how much I hate platooning in the first place. If you are doing those at more than one position, you are probably lacking a bit of positional talent on your team.

[Mr Southpaw]

Rodent,

 

The way you dance, you shouldn't be talking about positional talent. Just kidding....

[joepepsi]

I wish more managers were better at platooning. Earl Weaver was the greatest manager of all time. He realized better than anyone you put the best player in for each situation. That's the theory behind platooning and it's a good one.