Gerut's platoon partner possibilities

[nate82]

I was thinking about what if the Brewers resigned Cameron and traded away Hart who would fit in as Gerut's platoon partner. There are a couple of players like Byrnes, Nady, and Baldelli (way to injury prone for my liking though). There are others but I believe all of the other players will cost to much for the Brewers.

 

Nady could be a good buy low signing on a one-year contract. I don't expect Nady to do what he did in 2008 again though that was a career year but he could do what he did in 2007 again.

 

Season	Team	G	AB	PA	H	1B	2B	3B	HR	R	RBI	BB	IBB	SO	HBP	SF	SH	GDP	SB	CS	AVG
2007	Pirates	125	431	470	120	76	23	1	20	55	72	23	2	101	12	4	0	16	3	1	.278
2008	Pirates/Yankees	148	555	607	169	106	37	1	25	76	97	39	2	103	9	4	0	14	2	1	.305
2008	Pirates	89	327	360	108	68	26	1	13	50	57	25	1	55	5	3	0	9	1	0	.330
2008	Yankees	59	228	247	61	38	11	0	12	26	40	14	1	48	4	1	0	5	1	1	.268

Gerut and Nady would be a near perfect platoon option for next year I am just not sure that Nady would like to be in a platoon situation though. I'm not sure what Nady could get in the FA market but I believe it will not be much.

[Never Outhustled]

A sleeper pick of mine is Justin Maxwell. He's been held back by injuries in the past, and he Ks alot, but he's big, strong, fast, and productive when healthy. Washington has a slew of OFs, so we might be able to pick him up in a small trade, and IMO he has big upside.

[yoshii8]

Brian Giles or Randy Winn might be nice bounce back options, although Giles sounds like he might be a bit of a headcase. I also wouldn't mind Jermaine Dye, Rick Ankiel or Xavier Nady. I'd rather not go after Byrnes or Baldelli. Overall, I like Dye the best if his option isn't picked up.

[Hate those Rodents]

Isn't it more likely that Hart is retained and Cameron allowed to walk since he's a free agent, thus we should be looking at platoon partner's for Gerut in CF? Considering that hart would cost half of Cameron and is under contract (and trying to avoid an is Cameron worth it or not thread again) I think we should be searching for platoon-mates for Jody in CF.

[joepepsi]

I think we should be searching for platoon-mates for Jody in CF.

I agree. Someone like Kapler. The righty side of the platoon is the short end, so I'd want someone strong on defense and not worry too much about production. Kapler's numbers look down in '09 compared to '08, but that's due to 60 ABs against righties. He had a .931 OPS vs. lefties. Whether it's Cameron or Hart that goes Kapler is a good fit to platoon with Gerut.

[wishicouldhit]

I have a hunch that Hart is in line for a breakout 2010 campaign. There is no sense in trading him after a slow start and a bunch of injuries this season, his value is way to low. the crew would never get adequate value for him. and its not like we have a stud prospect pushing him out the door (see: escobar v hardy). If I was Doug Melvin, and had to make the choice to not sign cam and keep hart or trade hart for a B level prospect and sign cam with less money for SP, I would lean towards letting cam walk. Not to mention I love Joepepsi's idea of pairing Kapler up with Gerut, cheap and effective. Plus we can keep Cat as our other outfielder and still have enough money for two SP

[Never Outhustled]

Isn't it more likely that Hart is retained and Cameron allowed to walk since he's a free agent, thus we should be looking at platoon partner's for Gerut in CF? Considering that hart would cost half of Cameron and is under contract (and trying to avoid an is Cameron worth it or not thread again) I think we should be searching for platoon-mates for Jody in CF.

I think the thread premise is right. Cameron is about 2 WAR better than any of the pitchers we could sign for $10 million, but Cameron would only require a 1 year deal, whereas the pitcher would be longterm Suppan like death sentences. Hart could be traded for a starting pitcher with similar WAR potential and salary, such as John Maine. or Brandon McCarthy.

[RockCoCougars]

I don't think that you can sell low on both Hardy and Hart unless it accomplishes one of two things....encourages a team to take Suppan.. or returns a quality#2 type starter. Better to let Cameron walk. As good as many here think he is, I really think that he's going to have a hard time finding someone to give him $10 million per.

[TooLiveBrew]

It's not how good people think he is -- it's that he's actually very good.

[RockCoCougars]

It's not how good people think he is -- it's that he's actually very good.

Then do you think that teams will be falling all over themselves to give Cam a multi-year, $10 per deal? Personally, I think that he will be hard pressed to find anyone to give him $10 million next season. The Yankees didn't even want to take that contract last off-season without the Brewers taking money back. He's also going to be 37 next year, no spring chicken by any stretch.

 

That said, I'd be fine with $6 million or so. But $10 million can be better spent on pitching (via trade, not free agency).

[TooLiveBrew]

What other teams might pay him is 100% irrelevant to how good he is on the field. That's all I'm talking about. I think any contending team that has a need in CF would absolutely fall all over themselves to sign him, yes. If Raul 'no-D' Ibanez can get a multi-year deal, then Cam absolutely can.

 

 

The Yankees didn't even want to take that contract last off-season without the Brewers taking money back.

 

And I guarantee you Cashman is kicking himself for turning down a top MLB CF over essentially peanuts for the Yanks.

 

 

He's also going to be 37 next year, no spring chicken by any stretch.

 

This was the same argument why we shouldn't have brought him back for 2009. The guy is clearly not on your typical aging curve, and any Brewers fan should see that clearly. Plus, having Gerut in the fold is a perfect situation, since you can spell Cam more against RHP, which obviously is his lesser matchup.

[Invader3K]

I doubt Cashman is really kicking himself...Melky Cabrera ended up having a pretty decent year, at a much lower price. Granted, the money probably doesn't matter to them.

 

I do agree that the market for Cameron probably can't be that high at this point. Look at last off-season...guys like Bobby Abreu had to settle for one year deals in the $5 million range.

[kramnoj]

And I guarantee you Cashman is kicking himself for turning down a top MLB CF over essentially peanuts for the Yanks.

 

What about the Yankees year makes you think Cashman has any regrets? $10M isn't peanuts for the Yankees. They have a budget, and sometimes they can't get everything they want (that's why Beltran is a Met, not a Yankee).

 

That being said, I don't think Cameron is going to have trouble finding work for similar money this year. If any team wants a good hitter that can play solid defense at CF, Cameron is the best player available.

[joepepsi]

If Cameron can be re-signed for less than $10 million on a one year deal, then go for it. But his willingness to take a discount to stay with the Brewers probably means a $12 million deal with a $2 million option payout for 2011, in his eyes. I don't see how the team can justify that. I don't see how a guy who makes 3 plays a game can be worth $8-10 million more than a Gerut/Kapler platoon that makes 3 plays a game.

 

I agree Hart seems ready for a bounce-back. Or maybe I've set my sights lower on the guy. His power sunk this year but his obp was 35 points higher than 2008. Looks like he was working on plate discipline and sacrificing some power in the process. It's not unreasonable to expect the power to come back and the plate discipline to hold steady. At any rate he's an acceptable 6 hitter and trading him now seems like a bad idea.

[Mr Southpaw]

Welcome Back Kapler. Sounds like a great sit com!

[twobrewers]

Cameron might be the most polarizing Brewer player I can remember in recent years.

 

Some love him. Some hate him. There seems to be very little in between - and even fewer who can be converted from one category to the other.

 

Dan Needles on the D-List (AM 540) really disliked Cameron's production. He is so animated and passionate that it really bothers me, because I am strictly in the "love" category.

 

That said, Kapler would be a nice addition. He can play the RH side of the CF platoon and be a great bat off the bench. I'd like our odds with Counsell or Kapler as our pinch hitters.

[RockCoCougars]

I don't hate Cameron. I just think he is not worth $10 million per year, when this team is in dire need of starting pitching. At the plate he's too 'all or nothing' for my tastes. This team has enough of those guys already.

[Never Outhustled]

At the plate he's too 'all or nothing' for my tastes. This team has enough of those guys already.

We don't have enough of those guys actually. We finished 3rd in Runs Scored and K's. Colorado was 2nd in both categories. The problem we had this year was too many nothing or nothing guys like Kendall, Hall, and Hardy.

 

I doubt Cashman is really kicking himself...Melky Cabrera ended up having a pretty decent year, at a much lower price.

Cameron was 3 WAR better than Cabrera, thats a huge difference. Our entire starting rotation wasn't even 3 WAR this year. Cabrera is a poor defensive CF, and he should be replaced.

[endaround]

I doubt Cashman is really kicking himself...Melky Cabrera ended up having a pretty decent year, at a much lower price. Granted, the money probably doesn't matter to them.

 

I do agree that the market for Cameron probably can't be that high at this point. Look at last off-season...guys like Bobby Abreu had to settle for one year deals in the $5 million range.

 

Cabrera had a great April. He then fell apart. His 2nd half: .264/.324/.393. Mix in bad defense and he was below average.

[TooLiveBrew]

What about the Yankees year makes you think Cashman has any regrets? $10M isn't peanuts for the Yankees. They have a budget, and sometimes they can't get everything they want (that's why Beltran is a Met, not a Yankee).

 

This team has invested over $600 Million (yes, that's not a typo) in A-Rod, CC, & Teixeira. If you think they couldn't have easily handled Cameron's $10M, I think you're kidding yourself.

[kramnoj]

This team has invested over $600 Million (yes, that's not a typo) in A-Rod, CC, & Teixeira. If you think they couldn't have easily handled Cameron's $10M, I think you're kidding yourself.

 

Counting salaries over multiple years reveals nothing about an annual budget. The Yankees had a payroll of $208M in 2005. Last year it was $209M, and it's been below lower that in a couple of years. Yes, their payroll is obscene, but that doesn't mean it is unlimited. If Cashman wanted Cameron for $10M, why didn't he get him? He was demanding salary relief, just like when he got Alex, just like when he got Abreu. Cashman has a budget that he has to stick to. If you dont think he does, you should easily be able to explain why Beltran isn't a Yankee and why the Yankees started this year with Melky and Gardner.

[nate82]

If you dont think he does, you should easily be able to explain why Beltran isn't a Yankee and why the Yankees started this year with Melky and Gardner.

Beltran isn't a Yankee because he plays for the Mets and I doubt the Mets would trade Beltran to the Yankees for anything the Yankees would be willing to give up. The Yankees also were not that heavily after Beltran in 2005 either. The Mets were the ones going after him the hardest in the off season. The Yankees had Sheffield, Williams, and Matsui in their OF for 2005. I believe they traded for Sheffield and just signed Matsui that year Beltran would have been redundant but he would have been better than the aging Williams though. Also the Yankees signed Pavano and I think they either acquired Johnson that year or the year before from the Diamondbacks. If the Yankees wanted to in 2005 they could have signed Beltran they just chose to get more pitching with Johnson and Pavano. Also I believe Wang was signed that year not sure on that though.

[kramnoj]

Going into that offseason, the Yankees had money to get the Big Unit or Beltran, but didn't have the budget for both. Williams was clearly declining and Beltran would have been perfect for the Yankees, because the Yankees didn't have good CF prospects that would be ready and Beltran was the best CF FA that would be available for years. The point being that even the Yankees have to make decisions around their budget and can't get every player they want.

 

Back to the main topic, I had thought about Kapler as well, so I think he could be a decent possibility. He seemed like a fun guy and a good guy to root for, and his production for the last 2 years would be acceptable for a $1M salary for a guy who could play any OF position but would primarily be a platoon CF.

[Never Outhustled]

If the Yankees wanted to in 2005 they could have signed Beltran they just chose to get more pitching with Johnson and Pavano. Also I believe Wang was signed that year not sure on that though.

Jaret Wright was the 3rd big money signing for the Yankees that year. Brian Cashman isn't all that good.

[Roderick]

$10M isn't peanuts for the Yankees. They have a budget,

I think any budget they impose upon themselves regarding player costs is more for political / public relation reasons versus having to worry about actually having to enough money to cover the payroll.