Let trevor time go

[wishicouldhit]

Even though Hoffman has been one of the few upsides of the brewers this season and it would be awesome for a brewer to be the first 600 save closer. In 2010 and the future it makes logical sense for the brewers to offer him arb and hope he doesn't take it. In return the brewers would receive a sandwich pick and a first round pick (or second). We dont want a repeat of 2009 when we have an above average closer with one of the wosrt pitching staffs , the money needs to be spent on 2 starting pitchers. In addition i think Coffee has done more than enough to solidify the closer role. As for set up man..... well thats a problem.

[RockCoCougars]

I disagree. Hoffman has been great this year. Money for starting pitching can come from other sources (Cameron, Kendall, Looper, Hardy, Weathers).

[piccione88]

I highly doubt that Melvin passed up a viable starting pitcher in order to get Hoffman. As for next year, signing Hoffman, does not prevent us from picking up a starter. If the Brewers can pick up two starters through trades of our infield depth, we could afford to bring back both Hoffman, and Cameron without raising payroll.

[Invader3K]

It's amazing that Hoffman is close to 40 saves, with as bad as the team has been. He needs to come back next year. Even if he slips just slightly, he'll still be worth it. If you don't sign him, they'll just have to overpay to bring in someone else, or go with some crummy internal option that they'll have to scramble to replace mid-season if they're in contention.

 

Hoffman is worth it, for his performance. It's also nice for the franchise that he puts butts in seats and moves merchandise, too.

[brewmann04]

Hoffman needs to be resigned at least for the 2010 season.

[yoshii8]

If he wants to come back, you have to sign him. It doesn't make sense to not have a good closer just because we don't have enough starters. It would just cause more problems w/ our pitching staff.

[dadofandrew]

Hoffman won't need much more to return, and he's been outstanding. Could he falter? Absolutely, any P can, and Trevor is older than me. But, he's been as good as any closer, and he'll only make a bit over 50-60% of the highest paid.

[patrickgpe]

i think you are underestimating how important it is to have a good closer. For whatever reason its just harder to finish the 9th than the 8th, which is why we have seen many good setup men fail in the closers role. Coffey was pretty bad as a closer for the Reds. I'd rather let him continue in his current role.

[TheCrew07]

Sure you can pay a closer, but to what end? A good closer will pick up 35-40 saves regardless how bad the team is, the closer doesn't make or break the bullpen or the pitching staff.

 

I'm still of the opinion large sums of money spent on the bullpen are misspent, there's simply not the opportunity to have the same impact as a starting pitcher. I'm not into paying starter type money to any reliever let alone a closer to pitch 1/4 to 1/3 the innings of our best starting pitcher. Villy has the most IP out of the pen so far at 89, Hoffman has only pitched 51... it's just not good value to pay starting pitcher money to a closer.

 

I'm equally against paying a FA SP fair market value. However, I just don't have much faith in Melvin's ability to swing a deal for pitching, so if he were to use some combination of Cameron's, Looper's, and Hoffman's salary to sign Lackey for example I'd probably swallow my pride and grudgingly accept that deal. I still believe a FA is the least best way to plug a hole in the rotation for a team like Milwaukee but at this point something is better than nothing. Hoffman is good, but is he money well spent on a .500 team with glaring holes elsewhere?

 

I'm really not concerned about the pen, we have Wooten and Fiers in the system as middle relief, plus Axford, Aguilar, and Braddock have the stuff to close. We also have a plethora of young SP on the way and some of those players will end up in the bullpen like Villy did... guys like Cody, Dillard and so on. Many scouts also like some of our high ceiling starting pitching prospects such as Jeffress and Peralta to be relievers down the road. We literally have a ton of options for the bullpen on the horizon, but we desperately need guys like Butler, Rivas, and Rogers to remain healthy and effective as starting pitchers, and we could definitely use a player like Periard who's results have never caught up to his stuff to have a break out season as well.

[ILuvDaBush]

Is having Trevor for 2010 really that terrible an idea? I understand if he declines arbitration and goes to another team, it's a consolation that we get two picks (especially after Bruce Seid proved to be quite an adept drafter/signatory) but Trevor would still hold a great deal of value next year if we decided to trade him. And honestly, having the ninth nailed down is a luxury, not only for the starters knowing that it's only an eight inning game (of the good kind) but also from the bullpen itself. Does no one remember how our bullpen was in shambles until Trevor Time erupted? Then the entire bullpen became one of the best in baseball (DiFelice/Stetter/Son of...giving way to Coffey...giving way to the previously shaken Carlito). Going into next season, if we still have the Coffey/CV/Stetter set-up squad for Trevor (all of which is costing us less than what the 'stache was willing to pay Coco mind you), how can you not be pleased and content? He's the chess-master of closers. And I don't want to imagine him doing his jedi-mind tricks on my Brews (Prince would undoubtedly hurt himself swinging for the scoreboard and coming up air).

[JohnBriggs12]

Count me in the group that thinks Hoffman isn't a priority. I think he'll still be solid next year but I don't expect a 92% save percentage, nor do they necessarily need that as a team to win (see the Phillies). They will need to pony up to get the kind of starter that would actually make a difference. Now if they can save enough through non-tendering Bush, letting Cameron and Kendall go, and not picking up Looper's option to add a quality starter (none of which they are guaranteed to do) and keep Hoffman that's fine. But in that scenario, they'd also need to consider adding an OF bat or keeping Lopez too. I still don't understand the thinking that being 5th in runs scored is good enough. Is the goal to have the 5th best team or the best team? Sure 5th in runs scored is fine if your 1-2 in pitching but that's not happening.

 

I also don't think Coffey would necessarily be the replacement. Vargas has looked very, very good in late inning situations (so much so that's he's earned some money too and should be retained) and there will be other less expensive relievers on the market. Chris Smith has emerged as dependable too so they have some depth in that pen to choose from. I'm not counting on Weathers either because he's near the end and not all that reliable.

 

I also don't think Hoffman puts one fan in the seats. People don't buy tickets based on seeing a closer. Yeah, it's a neat show when he comes in which does add to the experience at a game but there's no guarantee you will see it so why would you make a ticket purchase decision based on maybe seeing the closer?

[CheezWizHed]

I also don't think Hoffman puts one fan in the seats.

 

Not directly he won't. But people see how the team is put together. Signing Hoffman in the offseason was the big ticket signing. It shows that the Brewers are committed to winning. So signing Hoffman/Looper (yes, Looper didn't work out) shows the fans that we are trying to get back to the playoffs. Remember the '90s where we would sign a bunch of AAAA scrubs and pray someone looked good in ST?

 

Personally, I say offer arby and let Hoffman make the decision. I'm fine if he stays or goes.

[Never Outhustled]

The Brewers have way more money than people are figuring, if Hardy is dealt, which seems likely. If the Brewers decline options on Looper and Weathers, and non-tender Bush, they have enough money to keep Cameron, Hoffman, and add a $12 million pitcher. We have alot of flexibility.

[marty22]

X, do you really think they'll non-tender Bush?

[Invader3K]

Not directly he won't. But people see how the team is put together. Signing Hoffman in the offseason was the big ticket signing. It shows that the Brewers are committed to winning.

Exactly. I just don't want to see this team in June or July scrambling for a closer because Todd Coffey or Carlos Villanueva or whomever is not working out in that role. Teams that go to the playoffs usually have very good closers. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but usually a solid bullpen is critical to success.

 

I also think people underestimate how much revenue he is bringing in from merchandise. I've seen a ton of those "Trevor Time" shirts this summer. Granted, that's probably a small drop in the bucket, but at least it's something.

[Never Outhustled]

X, do you really think they'll non-tender Bush?

Only if they see a realistic oppurtunity to get a good pitcher. I think they be watching the situation in Atlanta very closely.

[Tbadder]

The only thing that weirds me out about this off season is that the Brewers might not have any money to spend. I'm betting season tickets sale plummet, and our break even point is something closer to 60 mil rather than 90 mil. For that reason alone I think we need to jettison contracts wherever we can, and if Hoffman nets us a draft choice, well, then I'd let him walk for sure. I hope I'm wrong, but it could end up being a cold slap in the face for Brewer fans this winter.

[Invader3K]

I don't know...Attanasio isn't stupid. I think he realizes they need to milk the next couple years for all they're worth. I doubt they significantly slash payroll. Really, all it will take with this fan base is one big FA signing or trade during the off-season, and I think season tickets will go like hot cakes again.

[pretendastronaut]

Sure you can pay a closer, but to what end? A good closer will pick up 35-40 saves regardless how bad the team is, the closer doesn't make or break the bullpen or the pitching staff.

 

This was a pretty obvious shift in the production of our bullpen when Hoffman came off of the DL early in the season, and roles were finally established. Granted at the time we had no closer, but without a good closer, you just shifting to find one with your current crop all of the time.

I don't think bringing Hoffman back is a must, but I would certainly try. We're not the Phillies, and in this division, we're not likely to run away with anything, so a game here or there can make a very big difference, as it did in 07 and 08.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

The backend of our bullpen was good this year. Take Hoffman out of the mix and it gets tougher. Maybe Coffey could close, but the options for set up get dicier. I'd try and hang on to as much of our backend bullpen as possible and hope we can get enough starting pitching to keep us in the game through 6. It's like trading Prince, it doesn't help to fill one hole if you just create another.

[hurricanecrush]

Sure you can pay a closer, but to what end? A good closer will pick up 35-40 saves regardless how bad the team is, the closer doesn't make or break the bullpen or the pitching staff.

If we think we're going to be a 70 win team next year then I agree. If we think we have a .500 team, or better, then it would be foolish to go in trying to pick one from the current pen. Does Turnbow ring a bell? How about the struggles we had in '08 trying to figure out who would close?

[TheCrew07]

I haven't forgotten anything, there's no way that 51 IP of 1.76 ERA is anywhere near as valuable as 185.2 of 3.73 ERA is. This is about maximizing value, not about Trevor Time being cool and/or it's neat to have a pitcher of his caliber playing for the team. Can we really count on him putting up a similar season next year? How could he possibly be as good? He had the second lowest ERA in his entire career at age 41. It wouldn't be realistic to expect the same kind of season out of him at age 42. He's a luxury... if they have the payroll for him sure, but he's like Cameron in that he's not someone you build around, he's a final piece of the puzzle type guy. It doesn't matter if he's back anymore than it matters if Cameron is back if the 2010 team features the same rotation.

 

The rotation is the main problem that has to be addressed here, our starting rotation simply isn't pitching enough innings, our best pitchers are leaving too many IP out there for the bullpen. This year in no particular order Looper has averaged 5.7 IP per start, Gallardo 6.2, Suppan 5.3(prior to this evening), Bush 5.1, and Parra 5.4. In 2008 Sheets averaged 6.7, Bush 6.3, Suppan 5.9, Sabathia 7.2, and Parra 5.7... Every spot in the rotation has pitched significantly less IP per game at a worse ERA in 2009... the problem isn't the bullpen, the problem is the load they've had to carry.

 

Turnbow was a scrap heap reclamation project, as was Kolb before him, even Cordero wasn't setting the world on fire when he was acquired. The 9th inning usually isn't the highest leverage situation in the game anyway which is where I'd prefer my best bullpen arm. I don't care of it's the 6th, 7th, 8th, or the 9th, I want my best pitcher stopping the rally cold. Why should I care who's pitching the 9th with a 3 run and the bottom of the order coming up? Sure a lesser closer than Hoffman will blow more games, but how many games have we given away pitching lesser pitchers in bigger situations? Coffey has been run into the ground taking high leverage situations, but he's not our best reliever. Once you pay a closer, it's all about saves and the bullpen loses some flexibility. Who made this rule you have to pay for an expensive closer and he has to pitch the 9 inning? It's one of things that literally makes no sense to me, other than making more money, how is the closer the most valuable reliever on his team when he only pitches the 9th? Truth be told I don't like LOOGYs either, I don't care how good a guy is I'm not paying him fair market value to pitch less than 50 full innings in a complete healthy season.

 

I've been on record forever as hating defined bullpen roles, it's what drove me nuts about Yost... why does 1 guy have to pitch the 7th, 1 guy the 8th, and 1 guy the 9th every single day? When you have 6 or 7 guys, use em and even out the workload as much as possible saving your best relievers for the toughest situations. If a reliever cruises through his first inning of work and his spot in the order doesn't come up, why not give him another? Nothing irks me more than a relief pitcher hitting his spots and taking the side down in order only to be replaced and have the following reliever struggle to get through an inning. When a guy has it going on, let him roll with it... it's no different than feeding the rock to the hot hand in a basketball game, when a player is on roll let him carry you.

[nohopspanther]

You'll never get 185.2 innings of 3.73 ERA Free Agent pitching for the same price that Hoffman will command next year.

[Oldcity]

How did Hoffman prevent the Brewers from acquiring 185.2 innings of 3.73 ERA pitcher? The Brewers are trying to win again next year. Letting go of their best reliever who was very fairly paid isn't a good idea. As has been mentioned, there are better ways to save money.