Article on Brewers and FA Starting Pitching Options

[yogallardo43]

Link

 

Out of the listed pitchers, who would you guys be most interested in? Keep in mind that the Brewers don't have unlimited funds.

[owbc]

Not a very impressive list. I would pass on all of the above and try to acquire pitching via trades.

[yogallardo43]

Yeah, I am definetly on board with trades, but I was just looking at options via the FA market. Also, please note that I didn't include every FA starting pitcher, only ones that I thought would actually make a difference. Somehow I thought that Kip Wells wasn't the answer for 2010.

[Tbadder]

I go with Pavano or Pinero or Du...Justin if any of them were cheap enough. Although they'd still have to make a trade.

[yogallardo43]

Duchscherer seems like a great option. Depending on how cheap he is, he might be the best option for the Brewers. If he comes back strong, he would be an amazing addition.

[Ennder]

Harden, Lackey, Webb, Bedard or Wolf make some small sense but all are expensive/risky. The rest of that list we might as well just keep Bush and Looper and trade for AAA depth.

[yogallardo43]

Harden, Lackey, Webb, Bedard or Wolf make some small sense but all are expensive/risky. The rest of that list we might as well just keep Bush and Looper and trade for AAA depth.

 

You wouldn't want to take a look at Pavano or Duchscherer?

[Ennder]

Duschscher is even riskier than the others I mentioned. I'd just assume take Looper at $6M as Pavano at $8M.

[owbc]

Piniero reminds me of Suppan. He is likely benefiting from Duncan's instruction and has an ERA this year over a full run below his career average. He's only given up 7 HR this year but he gave up 20+ in 6 out of the 7 years before that. Somebody is going to end up paying way too much for him.

[yogallardo43]

Yeah, when I first looked at Pineiro I was thinking the same thing. However, his K/BB ratios have always been very good. Simply put, this guy doesn't walk anybody. Couple that with his ridiculous GB% and that makes for a good pitcher. Suppan surely cashed in on a decent season, but never looked anywhere near as good as Pineiro. I wasn't saying that I would love to see Pineiro as a brewer next season. If we signed him to a ludicrous contract, I would be disappointed. I was just saying that, if he came at the right price, he could be an option.

[sheetswannabe]

Another Free Agent STL pitcher? Hes ours next year!

 

I agree Pineiro will be grossly overpaid. I wonder how much Webb would cost us? Would he agree to a short deal to work his value up again? Or do you think some team will just throw money at him with unlimited years. Webb would be great, but if we got him I hope the infield D steps up just a tad.

[RightFieldCoder]

All of those pitchers are going to expect a hefty pay day. Pineiro seems like an interesting option. He is having a career year for the Cardinals. His control is amazing and he posses the ability to induce groundballs.

Before reading this thread, the first thing I thought of when reading this quote is "Sounds like exactly what I heard when we picked up Soup".

[joepepsi]

Randy Wolf has a good career K rate. I guess he prefers the West Coast, otherwise, I'd be OK with a 2-3 year deal with him. The smart money is on Webb staying in AZ, either they pick up his option or do a one year reduced deal. I don't think Doug Davis would do well in Milwaukee.

 

I think the Brewers need to look for pitchers with good K rates. Of course this is true for every team. But they have enough "pitch to contact" starters.

[JohnBriggs12]

Duchscherer is more than an injury risk. He's not pitching now because he's battling clinical depression.

 

Pineiro = Hudson, not Suppan. Look at Pineiro's first couple years in Seattle. He was 30-18 with a 3.52 ERA as a 23-24 year old. That's a 2 year stretch better than any Suppan has had. What's impressive about Pineiro is he's leading the NL in both fewest walks per 9 innings and fewest HR per 9 innings. That's an incredible double that I doubt has ever been accomplished. Usually guys that don't walk guys give up a fair amount of HR. It will probably take numbers similar to what Lowe got from the Braves, but he's younger than Lowe and Brewers would get the added benefit of taking him away from the Cardinals. For the Brewers to have a realistic chance next season, not only do they have to get better but the Cardinals have to take some hits. Right now there is a pretty big gap between the Brewers and the Cardinals.

 

The article doesn't even mention Jason Marquis. His 09 season might be as impressive as Pineiro in that he's pitched in Coors and only allowed 15 HR in 206 IP. Both Marquis and Pineiro have been going deep in games. Suppan as an innings eater was always a myth at least since his days in Kansas City. He was a 6 inning pitcher in St. Louis even in 2006.

 

If Hudson's available, I'd be happy with one of Hudson, Pineiro or Marquis. These guys are all ground ball machines, especially Hudson and Pineiro.

[yoshii8]

I'm hoping the Brewers make a run at John Lackey, but think they will go after Doug Davis, which I guess is ok w/ me. Part of me also want them to go after Rich Harden, but I think he'll end up getting more than he should w/ his injury history.

 

Having all of these former aces coming back from injury (Sheets, Escobar, Webb, Bedard, Duchscherer) make me hope that we take a chance on at least on of them.

[stadiumsauce]

Yoshii - I agree with looking at Harden. With his injury history, I don't see many teams offering him too big of a contract (in terms of both years and dollars) and think a 1 year + either club or mutual option for a second year might work. Melvin has been talking a lot this summer about being more aggressive and taking risks this off season in regards to starting pitching and I think Harden would fit the bill. I'm kind of hesitant with Duchscherer....he finally finished recovering from elbow surgery towards the end of the year and then got put on the DL for clinical depression.

[Outlander]

I would definitely make a run at Lackey, he's a solid #3 that doesn't really get hurt, and then get another starter via trade. That would make a rotation next year of Gallardo, trade, Lackey, Bush, Parra. They probably still wouldn't have a true #2 but it would be much better than this year.

[joepepsi]

Oops, I didn't realize Lackey has been pitching all year! Thought he was injured, but he's healthy. I think he is by far the best option. He is much more than a no. 3 starter. This year he'd be the Ace of the Brewers staff. He should be the focus of the offseason. They should be willing to overpay in dollars and/or years to get it done.

[endaround]

Pinero is not the same pitcher he was with the Mariners. With the Mariners he was king 6.5-7 per 9 innings, now its 4. His GB% this year is 61.4%, last year it was 48.5%. His HR/FB% is 4.6% this year, for his career its 11%. He is having a huge outlier season. Not Suppan-like which was smoke and mirrors (Suppan actually pitched better for the Brewers his first year than he did the previous year for the Cardinals) but in a way that makes it unlikely he'll keep this up going forward.

[Ennder]

Whatever we do I hope we don't go after some guy like Marquis. If you want to call a guy the next Suppan I'd say Marquis fits the bill much better than Pineiro.

[yoshii8]

I agree Joepepsi, Lackey would be at the least our co #1 pitcher if we signed him. I think he is going to get a large contract from someone.

[trwi7]

I would try to sign Smoltz. He's been really good since he went to the Cardinals.

[yogallardo43]

TRWI7,

 

I completely overlooked Smoltz. He is another great option. I didn't even mention Marquis because I think he would be a huge mistake by the Brewers. Marquis is having career year, yet still seems to walk a decent amount of batters. Sure he gets GB, but he has nowhere near the control that Pineiro has. Comparing the two is completely different. I think someone hit the nail on the head when they said that Marquis=Suppan.

[JJHardy7]

I think the Brewers need to look for pitchers with good K rates. Of course this is true for every team. But they have enough "pitch to contact" starters.

 

I agree with this, but I can't help but chuckle a little bit. It's important to have a good K rate for a pitcher, but you Ks don't matter for hitters? I don't want to take the thread in that direction so I'll put in my two cents...

 

I guess I'd rather see the Brewers explore trade options. I believe there's an article over at The Sporting News regarding Fielder and how he might be on the market this off-season (I have yet to read the full article). It's easy for me to say we should trade some players, but I get the feeling to bring back real value you might have to give up Fielder, Escobar, or Gamel.

 

Another thing to look at may be the market as a whole. Will it be a 'down' year for free agents again?

[Ennder]

I agree with this, but I can't help but chuckle a little bit. It's important to have a good K rate for a pitcher, but you Ks don't matter for hitters? I don't want to take the thread in that direction so I'll put in my two cents...

 

Strike outs are a bad result, hitters can easily make up for the bad results in BB rate and HR. Strike outs for a pitcher are a good result, pitchers can easily be bad with a good K rate because they give up too many BB and too many FB (which lead to HR).

 

Pretty sure his point is even if they are a good pitcher with a low K rate we already have enough of those types and in theory at least a more balanced staff would probably be better. So they aren't just seeing the same basic pitcher every day.