The Brewers hire Rick Peterson as pitching coach, Kyles back as bullpen coach, Bosio back as advance scout

[molitor fan]

Somebody said:

 

Rick Peterson's "list"

 

1. Pitching Coach of the Milwaukee Brewers

2. Stay unemployed and out of baseball.

 

Yikes, that is not even close to the truth. Yet another example of sky is falling pedagogery here. This would be an excellent hire for both the short term and long term. Peterson is by no means poorly regarded, Do some due diligence on the situation first before throwing negative tripe towards the guy.

[twobrewers]

1. Rick Peterson "list" was half tongue in cheek.

2. He didn't coach at all this year. He can say all of the things he wants about starting his business, but if Dave Duncan ever left the Cardinal's - teams would throw too much money at him to even consider taking a year off of baseball.

3. Peterson was fired as the pitching coach of the Mets.

4. Peterson has also become some what of a "rogue" pitching instruction with his dedication to biomechanics. I'm not saying his is wrong, but his stance has been well documented and some pitcher's (Johan Santana) has take some offense to his comments in the past.

 

Honestly, I think Rick Peterson would be a very good hiring. But to act as though he is the savior or our pitching staff seems excessive. He has limited opportunities to come back to baseball because there are only so many open jobs. Of course a job with potential playoff hopes would be at the top of his list.

 

The Brewers are lucky that he might be interested. But Rick Peterson is also lucky that they Brewers are interested.

[istanbultaye]

The reading I did (5-10 minutes) did make him seem like a somewhat less extreme version of Mike Marshall, with his rather regimented view of proper pitching mechanics. He seems more like someone who would be great for some pitchers, and terrible for others due to that. So far as introducing his philosophy through the minor leagues, it may help reduce some of the injuries and help the Brewers develop some pitching from within.

 

I just worry that as the Major League pitching coach, he may try and cram his philosophy down pitcher's throats, who have had success in a different way, and cause them to not do so well, while they are adjusting to and/or finally going back to their prior way. On the other hand, with some of the pitchers this year, it's hard to imagine them doing any worse, even if they are making adjustments based on his biomechanics.

[TooLiveBrew]

Here are a few articles on Peterson & his approach to pitching mechanics & coaching

 

- 2/17/03 Baseball Prospectus Q&A (with Jonah Keri)

- Brief SI article (by Stephen Cannella)

- FullCountPitch.com piece (by Gary Armida)

 

 

I was wondering what "biomechanics" exactly meant, so I just did a quick Google search. Here's an explanation, from the third article I linked --

 

"Biomechanics is defined as the science of the internal and external forces acting on the human body and the effects produced by these forces. Obviously, an analysis of a pitcher's biomechanics when performing the pitching delivery is quite important in order to maintain his safety. Dr. Andrews and his team at ASMI have pioneered this analysis through many years of working with highly successful pitchers. Coach Peterson explains, 'Dr. Andrews went back to the Bob Gibson era and really looked at pitchers who were durable, maintained health, and performed at an elite level. There were consistencies in the biomechanics of Gibson, Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, Nolan Ryan, and Don Sutton's deliveries. They were all elite level pitchers who had long, healthy careers. Dr. Andrews wanted (and accomplished) to build a system around the habits of such pitchers.'

 

Out of the research came the biomechanics analysis. A biomechanical analysis involves filming a pitcher while a computer records every movement of his delivery. With the recording, the computer will analyze a pitcher's delivery compared to the elite pitchers in the computer system. Coach Peterson has brought over 80 pitchers during his 11 years as a Major League pitching coach. 'As Dr. Andrews says, it is the best prehab program out there. With the analysis, the pitcher will now have knowledge of any 'red flags' or 'yellow flags' in his delivery. Red flags are any movements in a delivery that will lead to a high probability of injury. Yellow flags are less critical, but over time, those movements can lead to injury,' states Coach Peterson."

 

The article continues, identifying the 5 'red flags'

[colbyjack]

Thanks for providing those stories TLB. I was just about to ask for someone with knowledge of his history, since I know there is a handful of A's fans around these parts, to share their thoughts on his practices.

 

As already noted, the Brewers job could be all the more appealing because the team may be looking for a system-wide philosophy to be implemented by Peterson. Since so much he talks about his about mechanics and injury prevention, it's particularly refreshing given some of the problems the team has had with pitchers the past few years.

 

And this quote in particular is encouraging to me:

 

When a scout's looking at an amateur, the first thing he always looks for is velocity. When you're signed they gave you a check for velocity. After that, you never make another damn dollar for velocity, it's all on location. High-end velocity still has value, but somewhere along the line the pitcher's own attitude has to change, so he's not worrying about throwing hard. Pitching coaches just need to rewire them. Guys like Mulder and Hudson understand that pitching at 90% effort puts you in a rhythm and balance that will give you location and movement but still yield your highest-end velocities.

 

In the same Q&A, Peterson also notes that when he was with Oakland, Beane would provide him with tape of amateur pitchers in relationship to the draft for him to analyze to make sure there weren't any major mechanical flaws. I realize that many of his studies, along with those of Dr. Andrews, are more theory than fact, but the simple fact that they are following some kind of overall method is exciting.

[Flood Pants]

I like it. He's evaluating pitchers using hard science, the same way an engineer would predict the structural integrity of a bridge.

 

Since baseball is basically a game of applied physics, it makes sense to view a player's body as a machine that has an optimal method of doing its work.

[colbyjack]

Why don't they announce it already and get it over with? Seems like this is one of the worst kept secrets in the baseball off-season at this point.

 

Do you think the Brewers might be waiting to see what happens in St. Louis to determine if Dave Duncan might become available? I know there were some rumors that La Russa might call it quits regardless of the Cardinals fast exit out of the playoffs, and now that the Cardinals have been eliminated, there seems to be more and more talk about the possibility of the Cardinals moving forward with somone else at the helm.

 

Just a thought, since Peterson does seem like a good fit without knowing who some of the other candidates would be.

[sheethead]

The Heath Bell story is a little disconcerting as well. Granted I have no idea what kind of person Heath Bell is, but that situation didn't work itself out for Peterson either.

[CheezWizHed]

I know there were some rumors that La Russa might call it quits....

 

Great leaping horny toads! The Cardinals might not be so "classy" next year!

 

Question: Would getting Peterson (or Duncan) as pitching coach help entice FA pitchers?

[Hate those Rodents]

I'd have to think Mulder would be brought in. Hudson might be a trade target. Duscherer would seem to make a lot of sense too.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm not so sure on Mulder. This is from the SI article linked in post #28:

 

"Peterson's program isn't for everyone-Oakland lefthander Mark Mulder, for one, was less than enamored with some of the coach's techniques-but it has proved effective."

 

Granted, I know nothing more than that one line from a 2003 article, but it doesn't seem that Mulder would inherently be interested.

 

 

I like it. He's evaluating pitchers using hard science, the same way an engineer would predict the structural integrity of a bridge.

 

Since baseball is basically a game of applied physics, it makes sense to view a player's body as a machine that has an optimal method of doing its work.

 

That's what stood out to me -- the scientific approach. I think Peterson is very firmly committed to 'his way' not because it's his per se... I get the impression that it's 'his way' because he objectively feels it's the best approach. Objectivity in a coach is a stellar trait, imo... keeps you out of "zim zams"

[Never Outhustled]

Granted, I know nothing more than that one line from a 2003 article, but it doesn't seem that Mulder would inherently be interested.

I think that might be a little outdated. Isn't Mulder working with Peterson to try to find his former self?

 

Also, didn't Zito work with Peterson this past offseason?

 

Another guy who really needs to re-unite with Peterson is Oliver Perez. While Peterson didn't fix Victor Zambrano in 10 minutes, he did fix Perez that quickly. Suppan for Perez?

 

 

BTW, Thanks TLB for all the links, fascinating stuff.

[patrickgpe]

according to Haudricourt, Chuck Hernandez and Bryan Price are also candidates.

 

link

 

I still would prefer Peterson to the others, but would love the idea of Hernandez being the bullpen coach.

[Never Outhustled]

Chuck Hernandez is the guy that ruined Justin Verlander last year. Detroits pitching really turned around with him out this year.

[thebruce44]

I thought the reason Verlander has always faded is because Leland abuses his pitchers so much. Verlander seems to always be at the top of the list in pitcher abuse points and Edwin Jackson was up there for most of this season too.

[Never Outhustled]

I thought the reason Verlander has always faded is because Leland abuses his pitchers so much.

Verlander was down last year because Hernandez had him throwing sinkers instead of blowing hitters away with his heat. Thats why his velocity and K's were down too, and his walks were up. Throwing sinkers is great for pitchers with plus command and middling velocity, but a terrible fit for the fireballing Verlander. We saw the same thing out of Ben Sheets, when Dave Stewart advised him to throw mostly 2 seamers, which lead to Sheet's worst season.

 

 

I think you would be happy to know that Peterson is extremely conservative with pitch counts, and would have never let Gollardo get abused like he was last year.

[cruiserx43]

If one of the main points of bio-mechanics is injury prevention and trying to correct throwing flaws i can see the benefit to minor league pitchers such as Jeffress and Rogers. I mean even if the Brewers don't replace their current pitchers is it possible to make them worse? He may have something for Parra who seems to be missing that final piece to the puzzle although it's likely in his head. It would be likely some of these guys in the minors would benefit even if only in spring training.

[twobrewers]

Question: Would getting Peterson (or Duncan) as pitching coach help entice FA pitchers?

Whether Peterson and his "bio-mechanics" can actually help prevent an injury may be debatable. But if he can convince any pitchers to buy into his teachings, it would make Milwaukee a very attractive option for injury plagued pitchers like Eric Bedard or Ben Sheets.

 

Plus, the Brewers offense could help their W-L records as they search for bigger deals.

[thebruce44]

Well I have heard enough convincing. I hope we get him if for nothing else than I want to see the entire organization on the same page for once in a progressive fashion towards pitching.

[rluzinski]

Baseball related bio-mechanics kind of seems like a pseudoscience to me. If you don't have evidence to support theory, it's just words. Are there studies to support the his theories? Is this guy a PHD? Of course, neither are necessary for his theories to be correct but I am just skeptical.

[homer]

Are there studies to support the his theories? Is this guy a PHD? Of course, neither are necessary for his theories to be correct but I am just skeptical.

______________________________________

 

Well he's not but he's got two MDs on his company's staff:

 

http://3psports.com/3p/team/

[thebruce44]

Hernandez was never interviewed apparently. TH said his source was incorrect. Good news there!

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/64213247.html

[fleehaw]

Since baseball is basically a game of applied physics, it makes sense to view a player's body as a machine that has an optimal method of doing its work.

But not all humans are built the same. Should Randy Johnson and Tim Lincecum have the same mechanics just because the mechanics are supposed optimal?

 

Additionally, it would be interesting to know the numbers of pitchers analyzed that had no red/yellow flags yet still had injury issues. Or the number of pitchers that had these flags, but remained healthy.

 

That said, it is an interesting pitching philosophy and it would be equally interesting to see how the Brewer's system/pitchers would take to such a philosophy.

[Fatter than Joey]

Here is some interesting reading material from Dr. Mike Marshall -- Do a "find" in your browser for Rick Peterson -- If you are at all interested in pitching injury "pre-hab" -- This website is a must read.

[EbbaStClaire]

While I haven't had the time to read all the info on the Dr. Mike Marshall website it is disconcerting that he doesn't have much respect for Rick Peterson or Dr. Andrews. Unfortunately, Dr. Marshall's personality seems to always get in the way of his knowledge and he is difficult to work with but some organization should ignore Dr. Marshall's personality and embrace his philosophy. Marshall was a great pitcher and has studied the pitching motion a lot longer than anyone else. Maybe there are a couple of Marshall proteges out there who would be easier to work with while at the same time using Marshall as a consultant.