Gamel's future

[bklynbrewcrew]

Tbadder, I think its just a case of Macha not liking young players. He has had it in for Gamel ever since he came up when he claimed he was in a "zim zam". I still cant understand how the GM calling up your best prospect is a "zim zam" but Macha clearly prefers older players. This is the same manager who said he wants to see what Corey Pattersons got a few weeks back. This guy is as clueless as it gets but at this point I blame Melvin for allowing this to go on for as long as it has.

[giffted1]

There are many scenarios that could explain why Gamel is riding the bench: punishment for some incident that hasn't been communicated to the media, nursing a few minor injuries, or wanting him to watch how guys like Counsell and Cameron go about their business. I do think its possible that Macha simply doesn't think too highly of him, though.

 

We've seen that Macha is very "old school." Along with the "zim zam" comment, Macha also called Gamel a "flake" in a pregame interview awhile back. My guess is that he views Gamel as some immature kid after showing up late this spring, and plans to make him pay his dues by riding the bench. This would be absurd considering Gamel's status as a top prospect who despite some struggles put up a solid line at AAA. There could be good reasons not to play Gamel, but I doubt there is one in this case.

[bklynbrewcrew]

The only flake is Macha and that is why the players dont like playing for him.

[bucks2281]

The MLB.com preview for today's game includes Macha/Melvin's take on Gamel:

 

 

The decision might be more difficult for Macha if Gamel were making more of his opportunities. Since returning to the Brewers for September, he is 1-for-8 with five strikeouts. Including his midseason stint with the Brewers, Gamel is hitting .233 in the Majors this season with four home runs and 50 strikeouts in 120 at-bats. At Triple-A Nashville, he hit .278 in 75 games with 89 strikeouts in 273 at-bats.

"I do have a level of concern about Gamel," Macha said.

According to Macha, Gamel has not been impressive in batting practice. In games, he's struggled to catch up to opponents' fastballs.

"Last time I started Gamel down there, they hit a couple of ground balls to him that he didn't get to. His at-bats weren't very good. I don't want to put somebody down there and have them not be ready to go out and play and not have success. That's the way I feel about that."

"When you're breaking in young kids, you just don't throw them to the wolves," Macha said.

General manager Doug Melvin went a step further than Macha, calling the notion that the Brewers should simply start Escobar and Gamel the rest of the way, "stupid."

I'm not getting this. It's September. We've been eliminated. There's no better time to give the kids some PT. And, I think starting Corey Patterson and Craig Counsell is much more "stupid" than starting Gamel and Escobar.

[bklynbrewcrew]

More proof that Macha is a dope. He is judging Gamel on pinch hitting appearances and batting practice. What a joke.

[brewers19]

It is obvious by now that Macha doesnt like Gamel and will not give him any chance at playing time.

As long as Macha is managing the Brewers Gamel will not get a fair shake. I think it should be obvious by now that Macha just doesnt like the guy.

Im sorry but this amount of evidence is hard to ignore without coming to the conclusion that Macha flat out doesnt like Gamel.

From the moment gamel was first called up to sit on the bench this organization has just done everything possible to stunt his progress.

Macha come up with the lamest excuses for not playing Gamel.

Tbadder' date=' I think its just a case of Macha not liking young players. He has had it in for Gamel ever since he came up when he claimed he was in a "zim zam".[/quote']

The only flake is Macha and that is why the players dont like playing for him.

You've made the chip on your shoulder pretty clear by this point and the horse is thoroughly beaten. Now stop spamming the thread or it's getting locked.

[wibadgers23]

We've seen that Macha is very "old school." Along with the "zim zam" comment, Macha also called Gamel a "flake" in a pregame interview awhile back.

Wow, did he really call him a flake? Do you remember the exact quote and why he called him that? It's no wonder Gamel gets no playing time if that's how Macha really feels toward him.

[trwi7]

 

General manager Doug Melvin went a step further than Macha, calling the notion that the Brewers should simply start Escobar and Gamel the rest of the way, "stupid."

Nice, Doug. Calling people that disagree with you who actually go to the games to watch the crappy product you put on the field stupid. Tool.

[giffted1]

Wow, did he really call him a flake? Do you remember the exact quote and why he called him that? It's no wonder Gamel gets no playing time if that's how Macha really feels toward him.

Here's the link.

 

Macha discusses Gamel for about the last third of the interview. The flake comments come at around the 3:50 mark. Macha talks about him like he was the dorky neighbor kid that came over to play some ball with them this spring.

[trwi7]

Here's the link.

 

Macha discusses Gamel for about the last third of the interview. The flake comments come at around the 3:50 mark. Macha talks about him like he was the dorky neighbor kid that came over to play some ball with them this spring.

I never heard that. Now I understand why Melvin wants to keep them. They're both tools.

[derflotr]

I have trouble understanding why Mat Gamel should simply be awarded a 3B job. He should have to earn it just like anyone else - with limited opportunities.

 

And if Mat is seriously struggling in BP we should all be extremely concerned, to be honest.

[PlayerHader]

He says, "He's a little bit of a flake." Listen to the interview. In context it is far from a slam from Macha.

[paul253]

How do you get the same result? Hart has no trade value right now. He's had back to back crappy years. And why are we moving the young player from 3B to make room for the older one with knee issues?

 

We should play Gamel at third base because he is younger? I don't get it. Haven't scouts made it known for years now they don't think Gamel can stay at third base? Plus, if the "older one with knee issues" is going to stay on the team, don't you think third base would be a better option because you don't need to have as much range at third base as you do in the outfield? The guy is in the running for ROY and everybody wants to move him to make room for a prospect that, quite honestly, has had a very underwhelming year both in the majors and in the minors.

 

And by the same result, all I meant was that no matter if you trade Mcgehee and start Gamel at third or trade Hart and move Gamel to the outfield, the result will be the same in that you'll have a third baseman and an outfielder. I realize Hart has had a few down seasons, but he is still a 20-20 player (unless Macha is the manager). Its not like his value is zero. I don't think you'll get a significantly better pitcher for Mcgehee than you will for Hart, and I don't agree with trading Mcgehee just for the sake of trading him.

[trwi7]

and I don't agree with trading Mcgehee just for the sake of trading him.

Have you ever even read the argument for trading McGehee? The reason people want to trade him is because he has never produced like this before and are skeptical that he will do it again so they view it as a sell high oppurtunity. It's not just trading him for the sake of trading him.

[Katuluu]

Nice, Doug. Calling people that disagree with you who actually go to the games to watch the crappy product you put on the field stupid. Tool.

Melvin never said anything about people. He was talking about "the notion".

[ELCABALLO45]

Nice, Doug. Calling people that disagree with you who actually go to the games to watch the crappy product you put on the field stupid. Tool.

Melvin never said anything about people. He was talking about "the notion".

I still don't understand how a GM of a baseball team can call a "notion" that playing your two best prospects is stupid.

 

We are not making the playoffs. There is no reason to NOT play Gamel right now.

[Invader3K]

Maybe it's "2nd Place or Bust" at this point?

[paul253]

The reason people want to trade him is because he has never produced like this before and are skeptical that he will do it again so they view it as a sell high oppurtunity. It's not just trading him for the sake of trading him.

 

Yes, I have read the argument. For one, he's a rookie, so when you say he's never produced like this before you are talking about in his minor league career. I'm not saying the he's absolutely going to put up the same numbers next year, but its certainly not out the question. Even in he drops off to a .275 average, thats still not really that bad. Young hitters (I realize he is 26 but he's young in terms of experience) tend to get better with more experience. And my argument all along has been yeah you may be able to get a #5 or possibly a #4 pitcher for him, but our rotation is full of those type of pitchers. You most likely aren't going to get what you need for him so why not keep him. I think if you trade McGehee and rely on Gamel to play third base you're taking an awfully big risk considering what Gamel has done this season. He has a lot of potential but perhaps we should wait until he has had some success before we hand him an every day postion.

[zzzmanwitz]

Since its only really fair to compare Minor league numbers at this point because Macha hasn't given Gamel a shot in the majors.

 

Gamel, Age 23, 5 minor League Seasons, 2248 PAs, .302/.374/.488/.892

 

McGehee, Age 26, 6 minor League Seasons, 2836 PAs, .279/.332/.409/.741

 

McGehee is having a good year, there is not doubt about that. But we have 6 years of evidence against lesser talent to see that he probably isn't this good of a player. 27-29 are about the peak years of a major league player, so maybe he is coming into his prime, but this could also be the tip of the mountain.

 

There is always talk on this site about how Melvin always waits to long to trade a guy and he misses trading them at their peak value, well, this very well could be another situation like that if we trade Gamel instead of McGehee.

[joepepsi]

I don't buy the notion McGehee's value has peaked. No GM in MLB is foolish enough to think he's this good based on on less than 400 major league plate appearances. He may indeed be the next Casey Blake or Mark Derosa, but no one is going to believe that until he gives a 2nd year of similar performance.

 

If they get an offer for Gamel that includes a pitcher of comparable talent and age, then they should trade him. If not, keep them both and let it shake out next year. I have no problem with Gamel dominating AAA in 2010 if McGehee turns out to be the Real Deal. If McGehee ends up more like his minor league career predicted, then you slide him into a utility role and make room for Gamel.

 

The bottom line, there's no need to trade either one unless they get blown away by an offer.

[MJLiverock]

The problem is they can't keep hording position players and running a deficit in starting pitching. At some point the stockpile of position players has to traded from to improve the pitching.

[fleehaw]

You could also add that the Brewers already have a McGehee-type player in their system except with more versatility and a better minor league track record.

 

Say hello, Adam Heether.

[joepepsi]

The problem is they can't keep hording position players and running a deficit in starting pitching. At some point the stockpile of position players has to traded from to improve the pitching.

I understand. I just don't think McGehee will bring a useful starting pitcher in a trade. Not this winter. Gamel might. That's why I'd trade him for the right player.

[MJLiverock]

Gottcha Joe. I took your last line of the earlier post to mean you didn't see a reason to trade either of them.

 

At this point I don't really care which they trade, it depends on the offer. I can see where McGehee alone may not fetch much but coupled with another player (a la Hardy, Hart, etc.) maybe he can net much better pitcher than just a Hardy alone or a Gamel alone can bring. It may be the difference in getting another #4 ceiling pitcher vs. getting a guy with a higher ceiling or more years, etc. I just don't want to draw a line in the sand at this point and say one guy or the other will stay or go without seeing what deals or packages are available.

[joepepsi]

Good point. When GMs are looking to trade a major league regular they usually want a package of prospects and a player or two from the 25 man roster. Kind of like the Orioles trading Tejada for one good pitching prospect, a 3B prospect, Luke Scott and Mike Albers. Or the Sexson or Overbay trades when Doug got a mixture of players who could help now along with (theoretical) prospects for long term.

 

so, without turning this into a trade proposal thread, if the Astros were to trade Oswalt, McGehee could be part of the deal along with possibly Hardy and some low minors pitchers. That'd be fine with me.