Stockpiling players for a move?

[Weirdos19]

Not sure if this belongs in another thread, so move it if you have to.

 

 

We now have 3 guys that can play short. We have at least 6 that can play left field, and two catchers worthy of starting in the Majors.

 

There is no way we don't make a quantity for quality trade here before Spring Training, right?

 

Toronto and Boston both need a shortstop and have big sticks on the block. I'm not advocating a trade for Ramirez or Wells, but if a 3-way deal lands us an Ervin Santana type pitcher, can we package Hardy, Jenks, and a prospect to get him?

[AJ Love]

I think you are right on. I think we are going to trade 3, 4, or 5 players for one great player. Not sure who but I'm hoping for a great OF

[saget]

Mother of God, I hope you're right.

 

It definately won't be Manny Ramirez, but I can't help but picture how good he would look in the old pin-stripe jerseys on Sunday afternoons.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I can't see Hardy being given up on this early. It wasn't long ago when he was right up there with Mr. Weeks and Mr. Fielder on the prospect list, and the second half of his 2005 season showed that he can hit at this level. I'm not real sure what happened to him last year, but I'm not ready to send him packing yet.

 

Plus, the idea of a Braun, Hardy, Weeks, Fielder infield in the not-so-distant future has me drooling.

[GAME05]

The Brewers will be the Wall-Mart of the Winter Meetings.

[colbyjack]

I started this thread yesterday afternoon thinking basically the same thing Weirdos. A few people, myself included, said they sensed something bigger on the way, possibly including a deal for Billy Hall.

 

I'm not sure the Brewers can trade 3-5 players for one good to great one, but we'll see what happens.

[Weirdos19]

See, the Braun, Hall, Weeks, Fielder infield has me drooling. 120 HR out of your infield? Wow.

 

I'm not giving up on Hardy. But you have to give up talent to get it. And Ervin Santana is as talented as any young pitcher around. A possible future ace.

 

A rotation of Sheets, Cappy, Santana, Bush, and CV or CV has me drooling also.

[sbrylski]

Hall, Jenkins, Mench, Miller, Turnbow, Jackson out.

 

solid CF bat, BIG LF bat, and youngish but already good SP (ie. E.Santana)

 

That's just rambling, but look at our stockpiling:

 

C: Had Miller and Rivera. Added Estrada and Closser.

SS: Had Hall and Hardy. Added Counsell and Perez.

OF: Had Jenkins, Mench, Hart, Gross, Clark, Gwynn, Nix, Hall. Haven't added anyone yet but have been pursuing multiple options.

RP: Added Balfour and Alquino (but this is typical Melvin)

[saget]

I've seen Miller proposed in quite a bit of deals, but wouldn't Rivera's value be higher?

 

Rivera - .783

Miller - .712

[Ralph Wiggum]

Quote:

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I've seen Miller proposed in quite a bit of deals, but wouldn't Rivera's value be higher?

---

 

Miller is grittier and has a ton more post season experience. I think he's also considered the better defensive catcher, and is the team leader type.

 

But yeah, all logic says that Rivera would have more value. Baseball and logic often don't belong in the same sentence, however. It's likely that the Estrada trade cost Rivera a job with the Brewers, as dumb as that sounds.

[princeginterhallhelms04]

Yeah i get the feeling of a bigger move comming. But you never know with Doug. But would love to get a CF and young good SP and if we could get that i would move hardy or hall!

 

edit: Nothing is for sure that hall will be as good this year as he was last year. So if a great deal comes along and we can capitalize on his good year why wait? Don't want to wait for another Turnbow!

[Weirdos19]

Not with the lack of defense. Rivera is a butcher behind the plate. Most teams target a defensive catcher for a back up.

 

Ideally, the starting catcher can hit and catch and the back up can do one or the other.

[saget]

That kinda sucks. So he'll go back to Nashville? I doubt Miller will make it through the whole year even splitting time.

[brettac1]

But yeah, all logic says that Rivera would have more value.

 

I think that the Brewers wouldn't trade Miller, since he's a hometown guy and stuff, and I think other teams around the league don't think Rivera is now a good hitter because he had a .783 OPS for 142 AB's.

[RyDogg66]

I can see it now....

 

Zack Jackson (Capuano)

Mike Rivera (Moeller)

Jeff Cirillo (Spivey)

Kevin Mench (Overbay)

Mark Rogers (De La Rosa), and

JJ Hardy (Counsell)

 

for Richie Sexson!!!

[aracko]

Everyone is so down on trading hardy - for good reason - coming off a low point. Thats the same reason I advocate trading Hall. He will never be higher quite possibly - especially if he moves to OF.

 

Hall will be the guy traded this winter. I have no doubt.

[Weirdos19]

So we trade our best player, again?

 

His value is so high that the only players you'd get back are guys making 12+ million. Why would you do that?

 

No way is he traded. Sure, his value is high. But his cieling is way higher.

 

Even with 35/85, he had his share of spells where he tried to pull everything. If he can keep going the other way, he could go .290/40/100. Playing shortstop!!

 

To me, he's invaluable.

 

Here's a list of players I'd deal Hall for:

 

Oswalt

J. Santana

Pujols

R. Howard

Mauer

Sizemore

Carpenter

 

And most of those teams would have to give us cash too.

[strawbossisevil]

It would make sense to trade Hall, but the return would have to be pretty big.

 

But if we'd trade Hall I would want one of the following players: Miguel Cabrera, Jason Bay, Matt Holiday, Mann Ramirez, or Vlad Guerrero.

 

We need a big bat in the OF, and while Bill Hall is one of the best bats at SS, he's only above average when we move him to the OF. A few of these teams are looking for SS this offseason or could use one. The Rockies, Pirates, and Red Sox are all in rough shape at the Shortstop position. Acquiring Bill Hall would make sense for them because having Hall's bat at Short along with an average player out in left would be a gain in production over having the above average LF and no production out of SS.

 

Of that list, I want Matt Holiday. I'd even include Jenkins and Miller/Rivera along with Hall in order to even up the trade a bit.

 

So here it is, my proposal:

 

Bill Hall, Geoff Jenkins, Damien Miller

 

for

 

Matt Holiday

 

For comparison:

Matt Holiday's 2006 Stats:

.326/.387/.586 OPS of .973

 

Bill Hall's 2006 Stats:

.270/.345/.553 OPS of .899

 

In order for their starting offense to actually improve from last season, they would need their new LF to post a only .074 OPS points better than the .598 that Barmes put up at SS last season - AKA an OPS of .672, and Jenkins could easily surpass that, so the trade would be fair for both teams.

[RyDogg66]

Miguel Cabrera is the only guy Id trade Hall for that is realistically obtainable.

[Weirdos19]

See, to me, I keep Hall at short and package Hardy with a few players.

 

Would you get one of those guys for:

 

Hardy, Gross, TGJ, and Rogers?

 

You may get Holiday or Vernon Wells for them. But you'd have to be sure to lock Wells up for years to come.

 

We have a huge advantage with a 30HR shortstop. Nobody can say that anymore. Nomar and AROD don't play short anymore.

 

Don't trade Billy Hall!!!!

[tony2sweet]

I would deal Hall for Carl Crawford straight up. I just dont know if the D-Rays would go for that. Adam Dunn from the Reds would be great and the bat he brings would give us a true power hitter in the middle of the line up. I also would not mind seeing the Brewers go after Beltre or Ensberg for 3rd base. I guess the other guy I like is Willy Mo Pena with the Bo-Sox, he is still young and has some pop and potential. Any of these players would make this offseason a semi good one for me.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[strawbossisevil]

Quote:

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Hardy, Gross, TGJ, and Rogers

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You won't get Holliday for that rag tag bunch. No way, no how. Holliday has three years of arby left, if I'm not mistaken. A swap of him and Hall would work well for both teams, as I showed on the previous page and because both of them have a few years of arbitration left. Hall is probably the only player we have (other than Sheets) who could land us Holliday, and since we're going to have Hall in LF anyway, we might as well have the better LF if we can get one.

 

You might get Wells with that group, but that is a lot to give up for a one year fix in CF, and I just don't see Well's contract situation as being something we're realistically capable of.

[colbyjack]

I agree that the D-Rays probably don't want much to do with Hall. However, I think the Twins might, and in the $60 million challenge thread I suggested a Hall to Minnesota deal for a prospect package, highlighted by two of their three top pitching prospects (Matt Garza, Glen Perkins & Kevin Slowey).

 

Another player I would move Hall for is Jake Peavy, who has been tossed into a few trade conversations this offseason. That would obviously take a shot to the offense, but the pitching staff could be one of the best (and youngest) in the National League.

[sbrylski]

Holliday is untouchable, I would imagine.

 

The Rockies are going to have one heck of an offense in a few years, more is coming.

[strawbossisevil]

I don't see why Holliday would be untouchable, not when they have Garret Atkins and his sub .600 OPS at SS. As I pointed out in an earlier post, trading Holliday for Hall/Jenkins would actually dramatically improve the Rockie offense. And since Hall and Holliday are at a similar point in their careers (entering the arby years), a swap of those two would seem to be the best kind of move for both teams, since both are in the midst of a youth movement.

 

I guess, I just think Hall's numbers at SS, are nearly as valuable if not more valuable than Holliday's in left. That stats seem to support me, but maybe I'm being unrealistic and have my BrewCrew rose colored glasses on.