Would anybody else feel comfortable with Gerut as our starting CF?

[dadofandrew]

RH CF's are a dime a dozen, so finding a platoon partner for Gerut (or Ankiel) is easy...you need a reserve OF who bats RH anyway. Kapler, Reed Johnson, Hairston...even Austin Kearns used to play CF, not sure if he would still be agile enough.

[Ennder]

The way I see it, if the starting rotation isn't any better, or only marginally better, you may as well start Gerut in CF because it won't matter anyhow. McClung could play out there. If 2010 isn't REALLY the year to make a run, then why pay Cameron another $10MM plus?

We are sitting around .500 with most of the rotation performing below expectations on the season. I want to see the rotation upgraded as well, more importantly I want to see more depth added in AAA. However I don't believe this line of thinking at all, if Bush doesn't get hurt and Parra pitches anywhere near his career peripherals for ERA this team is probably in the playoff race right now even with the mediocre rotation.

 

I just feel people are being way too result oriented by blaming the rotation. It certainly isn't the teams strength in any way but it isn't so terrible it is hopeless either.

[DuWayne Steurer]

The team is, for all intent, a .500 team. Rickie has missed most of the season, JJ has been putrid, (although Counsell and McGehee make up for a lot of that). Hart has been sub-par, Bill Hall was a vortex of outs in his 200-ish plate appearances.

 

This team, as it was constructed, could have contended if people did nothing more than stay healthy and perform even within 90% of their expectations. Gutting the team and saying they're not close to contending is just not true.

 

If you sort out 2B, and plan on Parra bouncing back to form, along with Bush, there's no reason to jettison Cameron. If you take the field on opening day with the expectation of being an 85 win team, you're 5 lucky bounces from being a 90 win playoff team.

 

The Tigers have allowed more runs than they've scored, and due I'm sure to a little bit of luck here and there, coupled with being in a mediocre division, they're counting days til they clinch.

[Hate those Rodents]

I agree Roco. I do not think the team as a whole is putrid. I do feel we need to move Suppan to the bullpen for the final year of his contract and add two starting pitchers that at least can be #3 starters for us (with one filling the #2 starter spot for us by default). JJ Hardy should be able to get us someone resembling a #3 starter. I've have mentioned trading him for Jeremy Guthrie to the point where I am now blue in the face. The other starter should be a free agent. Lackey would be best, but Davis or Washburn might be more realistic. Regardless of who you get, you have to bank on them being able to pitch to the degree of being a solid #3. If we can add two good enough starters, we can return this offense (minus JJ and Kendall) and bullpen (minus Weathers) and be a team that can get to the 85-95 win threshold.

[twobrewers]

If 2010 isn't REALLY the year to make a run, then why pay Cameron another $10MM plus?

I would say 2011 has significantly more importance that 2010.

[MNBrew]

There's no saying that a pitcher acquired with the money saved by letting Cameron go has to be obtained through free agency. If it means there are some very good SPs the Brewers could realistically get if they would just take on their salary, the pool of possible SP talent we could get just got deeper.

[Invader3K]

Exactly. They could trade for someone maybe of the caliber of a Roy Halladay with the salary savings.

[Hate those Rodents]

Not sure what we could offer Toronto for Halladay. I am guessing it'd have to be something like Gamel, Lawrie, Salome/Lucroy, and Parra. But would we want to give up this package for just one year of Halladay? I believe he said he prefers the AL and doesn't want to hit, so is there any chance he'd resign with us at the time of a trade?

[kmcasper23]

Gerut wouldn't be much worse than Cameron and at a huge savings. I would rather see them move Weeks to CF and keep Lopez. If not that, then move Braun or Hart to CF and move Gamel to RF.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

Once he got over the jet lag after coming from SD, he's been solid. So what if it took two months?

 

I'd be fine with him keeping CF warm for Cain. Help save some money for a pitcher. Or another aging catcher.

[LouisEly]

The free agent market for pitching is pretty weak, so I'm not sure how directly Cameron's salary is tied to better pitchers.

 

It doesn't have to be a free agent - it could be a pitcher who is due a big arby raise who plays for a small-market team that they acquire via a trade, or a guy who already has a significant contract in place. I think Florida makes a great trading partner as they have nothing at 3B and McGehee is expendable (and while I'd like to keep Gamel, if he can bring Josh Johnson in return I might be willing to part with him).

 

I think another question is "Would anyone else feel comfortable with Gerut as our starting RF?"

 

A very fair question, as SF is said to be high on Hart and he may be able to net Sanchez in return. My concern is that the Brewers only have one OF at AAA or AA who is even remotely ready to play in the majors next year even in a bench role and that is Katin, and I think "remotely" is the key word. For me, in order to trade Hart I would need to bring Lopez back and move Weeks to RF. I would be OK with Bourgeois as the backup CF, but not as the backup RF (or starting RF should Gerut get hurt).

[DuWayne Steurer]

Gerut wouldn't be much worse than Cameron and at a huge savings. I would rather see them move Weeks to CF and keep Lopez. If not that, then move Braun or Hart to CF and move Gamel to RF.

Melvin's stated this year that he doesn't like Rickie in center because he's a power runner, not a 'loper' or 'strider'. I don't know what that really has to do with anything, but Melvin's on record for not really considering Rickie an option in CF.

[yoshii8]

I guess I'd be more comfortable seeing him as the 4th outfielder, but I definitely want him back for next season. I think if we don't re-sign Cameron, a guy like Ankiel or Marlon Byrd will be brought in, which I'm ok with.

[sheethead]

I assume Gerut will be back next year, and cheaper hopefully. Whether he starts or not depends on the Brewers/Cameron. There really is no other internal option, so Gerut would be the man for the time being should Cameron not come back. I don't think it matters all that much from a W/L perspective. let Cameron go... but does he get offered arbitration to net the picks?

[Mass Haas]

Brian and Bill quoted Rickie this week that he definitely does not like outfield play, mainly for the lack of action. Bill then intimated that well, obviously he could be pursuaded -- wink, wink.

[kmcasper23]

I am sure that Ricky doesn't want to play out there, nor do I really think they will move him out there. I just think they should.

[Never Outhustled]

We are sitting around .500 with most of the rotation performing below expectations on the season. I want to see the rotation upgraded as well, more importantly I want to see more depth added in AAA. However I don't believe this line of thinking at all, if Bush doesn't get hurt

Bush wasn't hurt last year, yet he was still just 1 Win Above Replacement. He's not good. The Brewers will have to at least consider non-tendering him after this season. He'll likely make about $4 million next year, and its kind of a gray area if he's worth that. He just has little upside.

 

This team needs 2 more quality starting pitchers to contend next year. Luckily we have a number a valuable pieces to move. Gerut helps create that surplus.

[trwi7]

The Brewers will have to at least consider non-tendering him after this season.

You really think they'll consider that? I agree with you, but I don't think they'll actually consider it.

[Never Outhustled]

You really think they'll consider that? I agree with you, but I don't think they'll actually consider it.

Your likely right, they won't even consider it. Melvin likely has no idea he's not a good pitcher, as Melvin hasn't shown that he has any idea what good pitchers are. Of course, I keep holding out hope that past results have just been a fluke, and Melvin shows that he fully understands pitching this offseason.

[Ennder]

Bush wasn't hurt last year, yet he was still just 1 Win Above Replacement

 

Pitcher WAR is beyond useless but if you are going to go this path he had 2 WAR the year before and 3.8 WAR the year before that. A 3.8 WAR pitcher is Wandy Rodriguez with his sub 3 ERA this season, it is Cole Hamels, it is Jair Jurrjens. Gallardo is only 2.9 WAR this season.

[trwi7]

Pitcher WAR is beyond useless but if you are going to go this path he had 2 WAR the year before and 3.8 WAR the year before that. A 3.8 WAR pitcher is Wandy Rodriguez with his sub 3 ERA this season, it is Cole Hamels, it is Jair Jurrjens. Gallardo is only 2.9 WAR this season.

Fine, what about his xFIP and tRA which have gotten worse each year he's been with the Brewers? Or are those stats not good enough either?

[Ennder]

Bush's 4.43-4.91 xFIP the past 3 years is probably pretty accurate. He really is a #3/#4 type guy, your original argument just seemed a bit out there becasue WAR is a result based stat just like ERA. tRA is as well(it ignores the fact that HR/FB is a largely random function and ignores BABIP as well so it ultimately isn't useful when trying to decide how good a pitcher is), none of these stats can tell you how good a pitcher is, they tell you how well he happened to pitch over a small sample and those things are very different. Bush is not a close to replacement pitcher, he isn't a good pitcher either. He is not the type of guy we should just let go for no reason though which seemed to be your intent.

 

As for WAR not being good enough for me, even if you look at WAR it suggests that over the past 3 years Bush has been well above replacement level.

[JohnBriggs12]

I sure don't always agree with X ellence but he sure makes some good points about Bush. We know Suppan will be back. It's likely that Looper will too. I'm fine with those two as 4 and 5 starters but that's a ton to spend on those spots. Bush has not shown me he's a number 3 so why commit real money to keep him? Ideally, they'd be able to include him in a deal for a legit younger and cheaper #3 with Hardy or Hart. On the off chance that either of those guys brings back a #3 by themselves, I could see going the non-tender route to open up that spot and save some money because they are also going to need to fill the #2 spot via free agency with a guy who's probably more of a 3 than a 2 (but that's another matter). That would leave Parra as the 6th guy (depth guy). I'd prefer having Parra at #6 than Bush because he's cheaper might still have some upside, and they could use another lefty in the pen if that's how it works out.

 

Non-tendering a player isn't "just letting him go". Saving several million dollars that could more wisely be used elsewhere is a return.

[endaround]

Sorry that makes no sense. Bush will cost less than Looper, is a better pitcher and under 30. And Parra is better than Suppan or Looper too.

[Invader3K]

Bush will cost less than Looper, is a better pitcher and under 30.

True. And the fact is the Brewers won't have the resources (salary flexibility and trading chips) to completely overhaul the rotation, which is what you'd be doing if you let both Looper and Bush go. Bush, when healthy, is an OK middle of the rotation type guy. Looper is the one who should go. Like I said before, I would like to see Melvin let Cameron, Kendall, Looper, Weathers, etc. go, and use that flexibility to get a real #1/2 type pitcher so Gallardo doesn't have to carry the load himself again next year.