Javier Vazquez and a Giants pitcher?

[RyDogg66]

This guy has been on the move his entire career and now I am hearing that he may be traded yet again if the Braves extend Hudson. He has been the a guy I have liked for a long while, but the fact that he has bounced from one franchise to another is puzzling, and worrisome.

 

Montreal to NYY to Arizona to White Sox to Atlanta.

 

He is going to turn 33 next season, I wonder what we would have to give up to get him. Maybe Corey Hart (if the Braves are still interested) and a prospect like Taylor Green?

 

Then there are rumors or maybe better put ideas about trading Fielder to the Giants for pitching as well. I have seen the typical idea of Matt Cain, and it is mentioned again in MLBtraderumors, but the Giants may understandably reluctant. So what about Madison Bumgarner. A little more unproven but would be controlled for 6 years vs. Cain's 2. I would have to think that would necessitate a move by Gamel to 1b.

 

1. Weeks 2b

2. McGehee/Felipe Lopez/Hardy? 3b

3. Braun LF

4. Gamel 1b

5. Cameron? CF

6. Right Field Free Agent? Hideki Matsui?

7. Rivera/Salome?Kendall C

8. Escobar SS

 

Gallardo

Vazquez

Bumgarner/Cain?

Bush

Suppan/Looper

[nate82]

First Matsui can't play the OF anymore he is a DH only right now. Matsui has played a total of 24 games in the OF this year and Matsui's UZR/150 is -30.5 this year and he has been worse the previous years. Matsui isn't an OF anymore in his career plus there has been rumors that Matsui would like to play with Ichiro out in Seattle next year if the Yankees do not offer him a contract.

 

I'm not sure the Giants will trade any of their young players away at this time. With Buster Posey being on the team next year that is a huge upgrade offensively for the Giants. The Giants may just go with a free agent acquisition which there are a lot of quality players who could play 1B or corner OF for them.

 

From Cot's blog

2010 free agents:

Outfielders

Bobby Abreu LAA

Garret Anderson ATL

Rick Ankiel STL

Rocco Baldelli BOS

Jason Bay BOS

Marlon Byrd TEX

Mike Cameron MIL

Frank Catalanotto TEX

Endy Chavez SEA

Coco Crisp * KC

Carl Crawford * TB

Johnny Damon NYY

David Dellucci CLE

Jermaine Dye * CWS

Darin Erstad HOU

Cliff Floyd SD

Ryan Freel TEX

Brian Giles SD

Ken Griffey Jr. SEA

Vladimir Guerrero LAA

Matt Holliday STL

Geoff Jenkins * PHI

Reed Johnson CHC

Andruw Jones TEX

Austin Kearns * WAS

Hideki Matusi NYY

Jason Michaels CLE

Xavier Nady NYY

Magglio Ordonez * DET

Manny Ramirez * LAD

Dave Roberts SF

Gary Sheffield DET

Randy Winn SF

 

First Basemen

Russell Branyan SEA

Carlos Delgado NYM

Jason Giambi COL

Ross Gload * FLA

Aubrey Huff DET

Nick Johnson WAS

Adam LaRoche ATL

Robb Quinlan LAA

Matt Stairs PHI

Mike Sweeney SEA

Jim Thome LAD

Chad Tracy ARZ

 

Not to mention that the Giants could also turn Molina into the backup catcher and have him play 1B when he is not at catcher or just have him be their 1B. Not an ideal situation but wouldn't be the worst idea for the Giants. I just don't see the Giants parting with Bumgarner especially with Cain hitting free agency soon.

 

I like the Vazquez move though. I'm not sure the Braves are interested in Hart though anymore with Heyward, Diaz, and Church all being as good or better than Hart. At best that would be a lateral movement for the Braves. I also don't understand why the Braves would extend Hudson and trade away Vazquez it just doesn't make any sense. Why rely on an injured pitcher when you have someone who is healthy and is your #1 guy this year. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I wouldn't mind kicking the tires and seeing what the Dbacks would want for Webb though.

[Hate those Rodents]

Bumgarner and Sanchez together in a deal for Prince peaks my interest. It's less players than we could get quantity wise, and less proven talent quality wise than we could probably get. But it does make sense and could have an enormous payoff for us.

 

I think McGehee straight up for Vazquez would be to Atlanta's liking and what they'd ask for. I'd probably do it, but have some qualms about it. Probably means it'd be good for both teams.

[804Sox]

Bumgarner and Sanchez together in a deal for Prince peaks my interest. It's less players than we could get quantity wise, and less proven talent quality wise than we could probably get. But it does make sense and could have an enormous payoff for us.

 

I think McGehee straight up for Vazquez would be to Atlanta's liking and what they'd ask for. I'd probably do it, but have some qualms about it. Probably means it'd be good for both teams.

A top of the rotation starter with a great track record for a utility IF coming off a career year? I can't imagine what qualms you're having about that deal . . .

[Hate those Rodents]

A utility IF coming off a career year? He's a freaking rookie. If you've watched us all year, you can tell he gets it and is likely going to put up some very nice stats for very cheap for the next five seasons. For one year of Vazquez and for the cost differential? You better believe it's not a no-brainer, especially if we can fill holes in the rotation well enough with one good free agent and one JJ trade.

[TooLiveBrew]

He's a freaking rookie.

 

He's a 26-yo rookie that never performed this well in the minors, and it obv. took him a while to make his way through the minors. I don't think saying that this might be a career year for him is anything close to an insult. I also think that McGehee alone might not be enough to get Vazquez.

[Hate those Rodents]

Hey, I am not going to defend the guy to death. He looks like he can be a good everyday starter, can put up good numbers, comes cheap, and is controlled for five more years. For one expensive year of a starting pitcher lots of teams passed on last season when there was the opportunity to get him.....................I am just saying let's point out warts on everyone and we can find reasons why each side might want to go in another direction.

[Tbadder]

Casey will have to post some credible numbers next year for him to have any true value. Best to hold him. I can't imagine he's worth Vasquez at this point. But of course if he posts similar numbers next year, and he stays healthy, he's worth more than measley 'ol Vasquez.

[Hate those Rodents]

Exactly. Where Vazquez could very well only be available if "bought high", there is a decent chance this off-season is the lowest you can buy McGehee. Which is why I could see both sides having reservations about a deal involving their player leaving for the other.

[TooLiveBrew]

Measley ol' Vazquez? Not sure we're talking about the same pitcher here.

[Hate those Rodents]

Hey, I was one of the few around here willing to give up to get him last off-season. His value in my view does not rise and fall as much as some maybe think. It's a legit offer straight up.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think you make a solid point that McGehee -- Vazquez is at least very close. However, with the thin FA class for starting pitchers, and the luxury of having enough young arms that they can sell Vazquez, I think the Braves would (rightfully) hold out for a better return than McGehee alone.

[pingman]

It is going to take a heck-of a lot more than McGehee to land Vazquez; that offer is laughable from the Braves perspective.... the Braves need a proven elite hitter and a top prospect in return for Vazquez....frankly, it's a sellers market for top of the rotation starting pitching therefore you'll need to offer much, much more because the Brewers won't be the only team interested in Vazquez....

 

Frankly, I don't think the Braves will entertain offers for Vazquez (or Jurrjens & Hanson) unless they're overwhelmed by someone who's very desparate.... but IMHO they'll shop Lowe & Kawakami, but only if they get a great return....

[RyDogg66]

It is going to take a heck-of a lot more than McGehee to land Vazquez; that offer is laughable from the Braves perspective.... the Braves need a proven elite hitter and a top prospect in return for Vazquez....frankly, it's a sellers market for top of the rotation starting pitching therefore you'll need to offer much, much more because the Brewers won't be the only team interested in Vazquez....

 

Frankly, I don't think the Braves will entertain offers for Vazquez (or Jurrjens & Hanson) unless they're overwhelmed by someone who's very desparate.... but IMHO they'll shop Lowe & Kawakami, but only if they get a great return....

Fielder and Alcides Escobar for Vazquez?

[Invader3K]

Fielder and Alcides Escobar for Vazquez?

 

No thanks.

[pingman]

I agree....and Fielder for Vazquez straight up would be a bad move for the Brewers...

 

I simply don't think the Braves & Brewers are good trade partners because the Brewers can't afford to give up what the Braves need

[Hate those Rodents]

Maybe Alcides Escobar, Mat Gamel, and Brett Lawrie would entice Atlanta enough to get us one expensive year of Vazquez.

[RyDogg66]

I agree....and Fielder for Vazquez straight up would be a bad move for the Brewers...

 

I simply don't think the Braves & Brewers are good trade partners because the Brewers can't afford to give up what the Braves need

Obviously I should have made my post in blue font, but you said an elite hitter and a top prospect. There you go. Fielder and Escobar for one year of an expensive 33 year old starting pitcher. Needless to say I think your assessment is a bit off on Vazquez's value. A package built around Hart or McGehee would be a start. A decent prospect like Lorenzo Cain or Taylor Green would or should be enough to supplement. Perhaps a pitcher like Fredrickson or Anundsun instead of the additional position player.

[pingman]

for giggles, lets talk about this scenario:

 

...lets say Frank Wren insisted on Fielder, but Hanson, Medlen & Heyward are taboo ....what if Melvin countered by insisting on Jurrjens & Julio Teheran.....

 

what do you think? Brewers get a healthy, proven, 23 year old ace that they control (not sure how many more years, but he's a Boras client)....Teheran is only 18 & is a power RHP who advanced to the A league team in Rome, GA...and based on what I read he'll probably be rated in the top 5 in the Braves organization, maybe as high as #3

 

The Braves might be able to do this because they have 5 darn good starters & the strength of their farm system is starting pitching depth

[Hate those Rodents]

That's closer Pingman, but I am not sure we'd be looking at getting only two players in a Fielder trade, especially if one is a Boras client. It'd be more likely Hanson coming our way with two others to get the deal closer to being a fit.

[Never Outhustled]

The Braves have an outstanding 1B prospect in Freddie Freeman, their not looking to add Fielder.

[pingman]

thats a good point X ellence....

 

Freeman advanced to AA ball this year as an 18 year old & did very well, although his numbers fell off late in the season after he tried to play thru a wrist injury....he'll probably be a Baseball America top 25 quality prospect or thereabouts & is the Braves #2 prospect after Heyward....I said this in the other "trade with Braves" thread: the concensus on the Braves boards is that the team would prefer to re-sign LaRoche to bridge the time until Freeman is ready....however....

 

... Fielder is a rare difference maker & that quality of a hitter is the missing piece in the Braves puzzle....I'm sure the Braves would go after him if they don't have to mortgage the farm system to get him.... Hanson & Heyward are untouchable but I'm sure Frank Wren would listen to Melvin should he call....

 

Oh yeah, FWIW I checked "Cot's Baseball Contracts" & Jurrjens is controlled thru 2013, then he becomes a free agent

[Never Outhustled]

I think McGehee straight up for Vazquez would be to Atlanta's liking and what they'd ask for. I'd probably do it, but have some qualms about it. Probably means it'd be good for both teams.

I completely agree with this. Vazquez makes us 5-6 wins better next year, but eats up alot of salary, and is a FA after the year. McGehee fills Atlanta's longterm need, a righthanded hitting 3B, for the next 5 years. We give up alot, but we get 1 pitcher closer to contending next year.

[dadofandrew]

I think you both are severely undervaluing Vazquez. His numbers are outstanding, and for a pitcher in his 30's is signed to a 1 year deal, it increases his value, because many teams want no part of a vet signed for several years. Javier may well be the best pitcher to change teams this offseason...I think he'll go for a package closer to what PHIL gave for Lee than just Casey. Maybe not 4 prospects, but maybe 2-3 solid players/prospects.

 

Also, trading 5 years of McGehee for 1 year is far from Doug's MO. Trading pre-arby guys is not what he does, in fact, the opposite is true, he's always looking for pre-arby guys in trade, Overbay, Bush, Capuano, Butler, and so on. Unless it's a July trade, of course.

[RockCoCougars]

No way would ATL trade Vazquez for McGahee. They have a similar player in Prado.