Mercury Marine

[BrewersSuperCollector]

I think no matter what the vote ends up they are going to Stillwater. Its just if the jobs leave now or within a couple of years.

[TheCrew07]

I think people should realize that having jobs is better than not having jobs. The union model doesn't work in a global marketplace, you can't force other companies and countries around the world to pay their employees the same as American companies do.

[nate82]

I still can't understand why unions have not yet adapted to the global market it is like the unions are stuck in the 1960's and 1970's mentality. A lot of the manufacturing jobs will be leaving the U.S. quicker and quicker Stillwater is only a stepping stone for Mercury Marine and they will then move their plants off of the U.S. soil.

 

Now I'm not saying the people working for unions shouldn't be paid a fair wage they should and they have earned that and deserve that. The unions just do not understand the global market for whatever reason. It is one of the reasons why all of the manufacturing jobs are moving out of the U.S. there is no stopping this until the unions and other parts of the government start to step in and start to stop this. No taxing the companies that leave will not help it will only make things worse. A lot of the environmental taxes, corporate taxes, and the unions inability to adapt to the global market are driving manufacturing jobs away from the U.S. and it is only going to get worse.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the employment for manufacturing to be as low as 10% in the next 5-10 years with the service sectors increasing. A nice article from 2007 on the Manufacturing industry

 

According to the CIA World Factbook

Labor force - by occupation:	https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2048.html?countryName=United%20States&countryCode=us&regionCode=naus
farming, forestry, and fishing 0.6%, manufacturing, extraction, transportation, and crafts 22.6%, managerial, professional, and technical 35.5%, sales and office 24.8%, other services 16.5%

[JimH5]

We have a nice thread about this going on the political board. . .come one, come all!

 

http://brewerfanpoliticalscene.yuku.com?topic=719

[fondybrewfan]

I have obviously been following this cery closely.

 

If the union does vite Yes to the changes this coming Thursday or Friday I would say that they will be around long term in FDL. I mean the new contract is like 7 years long with wages freezes. There would be no reason for Merc to just up and leave 3 years from due to labor costs.

 

My conservative estimate would be that 90% of the folks around town agree with the company rather than the union. Although most anger has been directed at the union leadership. They have really bungled the whole process.

 

If they Vote No again I don't even know what to say. The non-laid off employees would be throwing away a $20/hr job with no hope of finding anything anywhere close to that around here. Yeah the laid-off employees and new hires would only be making $12-$13, but it isn't like that is terrible either. Certainly better than not having a job.

 

I have believed all along that Merc wanted to stay in FDL as long as they could hire employees at market rates rather than $20/hr which is really high for a manufacturing job in the lower Fox Valley. I don't think they will hesitate one bit to move to Stillwater if the union votes no again, and they have every right to do so.

[Buckylovesbeer]

Growing up in Central Wisconsin and going to dozens of Crew games a year as a kid, man, that place really sticks out as a part of the trip. Its a huge building and actually pretty cool to look at from HWY 41.

 

I feel bad for the workers and for FDL. I really wish them luck

[BrewersSuperCollector]

I beg to differ, fondybrewfan...I think MM is gone, just not as soon with a NO vote. A yes vote would give MM some relief, so they can get their ducks in a row for a move.

[Invader3K]

One of the union officials (at least I think that's who it was) was talking on 620-WTMJ this morning, and basically said he felt a "NO" vote was right because "In my heart I know they're just going to move within five years anyway". I can sort of see what he meant, but at the same time, I would think having my current job for up to five years, giving me time to plan ahead, would be preferable to losing my job right now or within a year.

[lodiness]

Another case of a union killing a local economy. HMMMMM would I rather have a job and get paid or not have a job, and have no money? Let me think. First Janesville, now Fondi, when will people wake up and see that the union just doesn't work.

[fondybrewfan]

If the union votes yes I just don't see the company's incentive to move. The company is guaranteed 7 years of wages freezes, the can hire new people at market rate. What exactly will be their motivation to move? What is going to be different 3 years from now? The economy will certainly be better, production will probably be up and by all accounts FDL has much more capacity than does Stillwater. Besdies I thought the Stillwater plant would close and that work would come to FDL. Therefore if MM just wants to up and leave in 3 years they will need an entirely new facility which will be much more expensive. Also if Merc leaves within 12 years the company would have to pay a hefty penalty to the state/local government for reducing the work force. Although the contract doesn't say that without a doubt MM will be here for the next 7 years, the local and state incentive packages certainly make it worthwhile to do so.

[lodiness]

fondybrewfan wrote:

The company is guaranteed 7 years of wages freezes, the can hire new people at market rate. What is going to be different 3 years from now?

What happens when in three years when the economy might be better, the union demands to renegotiate it's contract and sends everyone on strike? If they moved to Stillwater and were not union, not only would they save on wages, but could probably get by not offering as good of healthcare (I don't know what they have now, just an assumption), and save money, by not having to pay into pentions. I'm interested what they make for wages? If it's even halfway close to what the factory in Janesville was making, I'd think that they would have to move.

[trwi7]

One of the union officials (at least I think that's who it was) was talking on 620-WTMJ this morning, and basically said he felt a "NO" vote was right because "In my heart I know they're just going to move within five years anyway". I can sort of see what he meant, but at the same time, I would think having my current job for up to five years, giving me time to plan ahead, would be preferable to losing my job right now or within a year.

It was pretty funny listening to that interview and then the interview they did with a state representative from Oklahoma. The Mercury Marine worker was absolutely positive that they were going to move the jobs to Stillwater anyways and then the representative comes on and is absolutely positive that Mercury Marine really wants to stay in Fond du Lac and has never had any intention of moving to Stillwater and that they actually have plans to move the Stillwater jobs to Fond du Lac.

[SeriesFinale]

Another case of a union killing a local economy. HMMMMM would I rather have a job and get paid or not have a job, and have no money? Let me think. First Janesville, now Fondi, when will people wake up and see that the union just doesn't work.

Neglecting a statement like "the union just doesn't work," (I seriously don't even know where to start there), I'm curious how little are you willing to be paid just to have a job.

[fondybrewfan]

Laid off people are more than welcome to search for other work if they think they can make more than $12/hr. Those people who are actually voting on this (Those not laid off at the moment) have no risk of seeing their pay drop.

 

The problem is $12/hr is the prevailing wage around FDL for manufacturing jobs. If they vote no those that are making $20.hr have 0% chance of finding another job at that wage and probably only a 5% chance of finding a $12-14/hr job (Especially since about 1,500 other people are going to be applying for every job that opens up).

 

It feels like the union still believes that MM is bluffing and has no intention of leaving.

 

I just can't rationalize why the union is voting no:

1. Those members who are voting are not going to see a reduction in pay

2. Even if those members get laid off they will come back at their old pay

3. Recalled workers or new hires will be hired at the prevailing wage

4. MM is basically guaranteeing they will be around for 7-12 more years (7 year union contract, 12 year deal with the state)

5. If they vote no they lose their jobs within the next 1-3 years, end of story

 

What do they have to gain by sticking to their guns?

[SeriesFinale]

I'd be apt to agree with you if it wasn't a 7 year contract--that's a pretty lengthy wage freeze--think of the economy in 1992 versus 1999 for instance. Anyway.

 

That said, whoever said Stillwater is most likely just a stepping stone to a Third World plant is dead on.

[TabbertBB]

All those Mercury Union guys could get jobs as Nurses. I hear there is a high demand for that area. Go for it.

[fondybrewfan]

I have a really bad feeling that this is going to get voted No again. If the company really does leave, the union will have had ample opportunities to save their jobs thats for sure.

 

Me and my job will be fine if Merc leaves, but its not as if I won't see the consquences: county sales tax, higher water bills, higher property taxes, lower property values, etc, etc. The city of FDL and the county will lose an absolute ton of revenue if Merc leaves. Of course they won't cut back on costs, they'll just pass on the lost revenue to everyone else. The writing is already on the wall.

[TabbertBB]

Not to mention all the events that Mercury sponsors. Good Luck attempting to fill their void for events and Fundraising.

[TabbertBB]

This time the vote is "yes". Again, will we ever know the totals?

[lodiness]

Neglecting a statement like "the union just doesn't work," (I seriously don't even know where to start there), I'm curious how little are you willing to be paid just to have a job.

For what these guys actually do, $20 dollars an hour seems like a bit much (if that is what they make). Most probably barely made it through high school. So we are into rewarding people for not getting an education now? I understand that furthering ones education just isn't right for some people, and I don't believe that college is for everyone, but for someone to do the exact same unskilled labor everyday, if they want a job, they should be willing to make some concessions. The union builds up some of these people and makes them think that they are indespensable, when they are. I worked at a job with a union once, and all they did for me is took a cut of my paycheck, and told you how great you were. When will some of these people realize that the company will move if they aren't willing to budge a little bit?

[Invader3K]

It's a changing economy. It used to be labor was cheap and technology was expensive. Nowadays, labor is expensive and technology is cheaper than ever.

[SquirrelMaster]

Neglecting a statement like "the union just doesn't work," (I seriously don't even know where to start there), I'm curious

how little are you willing to be paid just to have a job.

For what these guys actually do, $20 dollars an hour seems like a bit much (if that is what they make). Most probably barely made it through high school. So we are into rewarding people for not getting an education now? I understand that furthering ones education just isn't right for some people, and I don't believe that college is for everyone, but for someone to do the exact same unskilled labor everyday, if they want a job, they should be willing to make some concessions. The union builds up some of these people and makes them think that they are indespensable, when they are. I worked at a job with a union once, and all they did for me is took a cut of my paycheck, and told you how great you were. When will some of these people realize that the company will move if they aren't willing to budge a little bit?

 

Why are you assuming that it is strictly the unions fault for having these workers make that kind of money? The company has to offer the contracts for them to be voted on. The company is in just as much fault for them making that kind of money as the workers. Why is it so bad for these workers to be making a good wage? I think if the company is making a good profit, why not share it with the workers, who actually make the product.

[lodiness]

Why are you assuming that it is strictly the unions fault for having these workers make that kind of money? The company has to offer the contracts for them to be voted on. The company is in just as much fault for them making that kind of money as the workers. Why is it so bad for these workers to be making a good wage? I think if the company is making a good profit, why not share it with the workers, who actually make the product.

I guess that my feeling is that there is no space for there to be a cap on salaries, and most of that is union. Workers are guaranteed an x% raise every year weather they deserve it or not. Yes, the company did sign the contract, and I agree with you on the fact that if a company is doing well they should share the wealth, but not if it puts the company in any kind of position where profit margins would be lower. The owners or stockholders of a company are the ones taking all of the risk by putting there money and resources into it, so they should be the ones to see it first. Without the money from owners/investors, these people would not have a job there. Does anyone know if the workers recieve some sort of profit share? Given the economic situation right now, people need to understand that workers are expendable. In my opinion this means that the worker has lost it's leverage. There are plenty of people willing to work at a lower wage if it means that they would have a job. As for the people who "actually make the product" they need to realize that although they are important to the companies success, they are replaceable.