Scott Kazmir to Angels for 3B Matt Sweeney and LHP Alexander Torres [Update: PTBNL is Sean Rodriguez]

[trwi7]

Kind of wish the Brewers could've gotten in on that.

[DougJones43]

Kind of wish the Brewers could've gotten in on that.

It might have taken some guts and creativity. In other words, it wasn't gonna happen. We did get Vargas and Weathers though!

[joepepsi]

Judging who the Angels gave up it probably would have taken Lawrie and their best AA pitching prospect.

[trwi7]

Judging who the Angels gave up it probably would have taken Lawrie and their best AA pitching prospect.

This is more like a Taylor Green and one of our A ball arms package.

[trwi7]

Deal has apparently fallen through.

[MJLiverock]

Judging who the Angels gave up it probably would have taken Lawrie and their best AA pitching prospect.

This is more like a Taylor Green and one of our A ball arms package.

I'd do that in a heartbeat if I was the GM of the Brewers

[trwi7]

Deal back on apparently.

[nate82]

Looks like the Angels will only be bringing back one or none of Lackey and Escobar next year. Though I wish the Brewers would have gotten in on this trade it is still a good thing for the Brewers. This now means probably that Lackey and Escobar will not be signed by the Angels (I'm hoping here).

 

If Lackey and Escobar are not brought back by the Angels that is a lot of good arms available in free agency with Bedard, Lackey, Escobar, Harden, and others. That is 10 times better than last years free agent pitchers at least ones that the Brewers will have a shot at.

[Oldcity]

Kazmir didn't even reach the Brewers in waivers because he'd have to clear the AL first, so no point complaining about not beating the offer.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

Kazmir didn't even reach the Brewers in waivers because he'd have to clear the AL first, so no point complaining about not beating the offer.

Kazmir cleared waivers. Anybody could've traded for him.

[nate82]

Apparently there is or there might be a player to be named later which makes sense. Source.

 

I'm going to guess it is one of the players on the Angels 40 man roster and they don't want to do what the Red Sox did and have to put that player through waivers. I'm going to guess it is someone like O'Sullivan, Kendrick, Trumbo, or Wood. If it is someone like O'Sullivan as the player to be named later the Brewers never really wouldn't have stood a chance. The only player on the Brewers roster who is like O'Sullivan is Gallardo.

 

It makes sense that the Rays will be getting someone who is MLB ready to replace Kazmir. The Angels still need to be able to make room for Kazmir on their 40 man roster though. So I wouldn't be surprised if it is either Trumbo, Kendrick, O'Sullivan, or Ortega. I'm going to go with O'Sullivan.

[craigharmann]

Kazmir didn't even reach the Brewers in waivers

They didn't even need to get to that point. They could have traded for him at the end of July when there was actually a glimmer of hope of the postseason. A small, minuscule glimmer, but a glimmer nonetheless.

[Fatter than Joey]

I'm going to guess it is one of the players on the Angels 40 man roster

 

It can't be a player on LAs 40 man roster per PTBNL rules.

[LouisEly]

Probably Taylor Green and a left-handed Wily Peralta would be the equivalent. However I'm guessing that Kazmir was not on the table in late July. With only a month left in the season the chances of one of their (Rays) starters going down is less and they have guys who can step in and take his place without losing any depth.

 

How many Sweeney's are there?

[nate82]

I'm going to guess it is one of the players on the Angels 40 man roster

 

It can't be a player on LAs 40 man roster per PTBNL rules.

Yes it can be on the 40 man roster if the player is in the minors. I can't find anything that says the PTBNL can't be on the 40 man roster the only two rules I can find are that the player must be traded within 6 months and the player must be traded between leagues. IE NL----->AL or Minors ------->Majors. It is the same situation as the Mets and Red Sox Chris Carter is now a PTBNL instead of being out right traded to the Mets. Chris Carter was on the Red Sox 40 man but was playing for their AAA affiliate I believe it was.

 

Now that I remember that it can't be O'Sullivan so it is probably Trumbo or Wood. Trumbo is in AA and Wood I believe is in AAA.

 

Unless you can point me to where it says you can't do a PTBNL on the teams 40 man roster.

[Fatter than Joey]

Yes it can be on the 40 man roster if the player is in the minors.

 

My bad -- you are correct.

[nate82]

The deal is done. The Angels get Kazmir for Sweeney, Torres, and a PTBNL. I am going to guess it is Trumbo since the Angels really don't have a need for him he is blocked at every position he could play in the Angels organization and he would fit perfectly into the Rays lineup in 2011 when Pena is gone.

[piccione88]

I would think that the Rays could get a more impressive package in the off-season for Kazmir. The PTBNL will have too be pretty good for this to make sense to me. Maybe Friedman feels bad about stealing Kazmir, and wants to pay it forward?

[bklynbrewcrew]

Well there goes another pitcher that Melvin failed to acquire. I think its becoming painfully obvious that we need a GM that knows how to acquire real pitching.

[Team Canada]

Good grief, it's like Melvin is playing some trade video game and keeps failing the level. You can't just say "Oh why didn't Melvin do that, he's an idiot!" like somehow Tampa was just waiting for him to offer an equivalent deal and he passed. It's hard to speak intelligently about what Melvin is or is not doing when we have absolutely no idea what are possibilities, what opposing teams are asking for, etc. You can be disappointed that we aren't getting pitching, but to just dump it all on Melvin like he's incompetant is foolish.

edit: Melvin responds to critics

[crewcrazy]

The word in Tampa was that this was a straight salary dump, as Kazmir's due a lot of money the next couple years and really wasn't pitching like he deserved that big extension. There was a column on the Tampa Tribune's website calling him the "Ace That Never Was" -- which is more than a little hyperbolic if you ask me -- but he struggled mightily this year (ERA way up, strikeouts down, strikeout:walk ratio down, etc.) so I wouldn't bet against him being hurt again.

 

Sure, it would've been nice to have Kazmir, but the Brewers have already had bad luck when it comes to starting pitching injuries, and they don't need another guy who struggles to keep the pitch count below 100 in 5 innings. And even if the Brewers were interested, it takes two to tango -- right now there's no way of knowing if the two teams had talks, and even if they did, it's entirely possible that Thomas Friedman and his scouts preferred the Angels package. They sure seem happy with the return in Tampa:

 

Rays executive vice president Andrew Friedman said Torres, a 21-year-old Venezuelan wo is 13-4 with a 2.75 ERA at Single-A and Double-A this season, is a pitcher whom the Rays scouts "rave about."

 

He described Sweeney, also 21 and hitting .299 with nine home runs and 44 RBIs at Single-A, as a "professional hitter" who manages the strike zone well and has good power. He said the unnamed player is a "significant piece" in the deal.

 

Sure, it's probably just their front office trying to calm the fanbase, but it wouldn't be the first time a team has taken a perceived lesser deal.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Melvins comments just dont make any sense. He asks who the Brewers should have signed. Well the better question is who he should have traded for or drafted the last few years. While guys like Edwin Jackson, Jair Jurrjens, and Javier Vazquez were traded the last few offseasons Melvin was busy wasting him time signing the likes of Looper.

 

Last time I checked free agency isnt the only place to acquire starting pitching, in fact its the last place you go being a middle market team like the Brewers. Melvin has been negligent in finding ways to acquire pitching. He has held onto assets like Hardy and hart too long and now they have very little value. Last offseason Melvin had a decision to make, Hardy or Escobar. Instead of making that decision when we were desperate for pitching he kept both and signed Looper. Melvin could have easily traded one of our shortstops along with Hart for a high upside pitcher. Melvin criticizing the fans by saying who would you have signed is shortsighted and the reason why he hasnt acquired enough good pitching in his time as Brewers GM. Sorry but its time to turn the page and hire a new GM, one with the ability to judge good pitching.

 

I am also tired of hearing Doug talk about injuries with our pitching. We lost Bush and Suppan not Koufax and Drysdale.

[giffted1]

Melvins comments just dont make any sense. He asks who the Brewers should have signed. Well the better question is who he should have traded for or drafted the last few years. While guys like Edwin Jackson, Jair Jurrjens, and Javier Vazquez were traded the last few offseasons Melvin was busy wasting him time signing the likes of Looper.

I know there were some people (myself included) who wanted Melvin to try to get Vazquez this offseason, but suggestions that Melvin should target Jackson and Jurrjens before they were good were few and far between. Did you honestly expect Jackson to have the season he did (Dave Dombrowski might be the only guy who did, but he also thought that Dontrelle Willis would be a solid starter as well), and do you honestly expect Melvin to be able to predict which players will break out and make moves accordingly? Expectations for Doug Melvin outrageously high. When the masses get their way with Melvin's firing they'll be dissappointed, just as they have been with Yost's replacement.

[mothershipconnection]

Well there goes another pitcher that Melvin failed to acquire. I think its becoming painfully obvious that we need a GM that knows how to acquire real pitching.

 

Alright Eeyore, you tell me what GM's are out there regularly acquiring pitching in inexpensive deals that the Brewers could pull off. We could keep saying "Hart and Hardy could/should have been traded for young pitching" and "if they could get him for that package, we could have gotten him for our 10th and 25th best prospects", but there's no way to validate any of this.

It's also possible that Kazmir was the asset that was held onto for too long. He's had a bit of trouble staying healthy, and has come undone this season. (That said, I still like him, just as I still like Hardy).

[LouisEly]

Kazmir is due $8M next year and $12M the year after, and if this year is the norm and not the exception or if he is hurt then people will be calling for Melvin's head for giving up good prospects for Suppan Part II. Kazmir now has been traded twice, which makes you wonder a little bit.

 

Also, what we have seen so far from Escobar is a small sample and we don't know that he would have been able to handle major league pitching had he not spent the year at AAA. While some players can make the jump from AA, not many can and usually they are power hitters and power pitchers. They had no one to step in for Hart internally, so they would have had to go outside the organization for a RF (unless you would have been comfortable with TGJ as your starting RF).