Lucroy and Salome in 2010

[TooLiveBrew]

Ack. Now why'd you have to go & say that? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

The reason I think he's not going to be back is the $ comment coupled with "I assume he's going to want to play a lot of games again."

[JJHardy7]

I don't get the comments regarding Lucroy and/or Salome. Especially on the JS...it's like what Salome did with the bat last year was awful. That's not true at all. Salome also put up some pretty darn good numbers in AA in 2008. It's like he's hurting Salome's value in those comments...maybe Lucroy gets traded? I haven't seen Lucroy play, but I've heard real good things. I have seen Salome play quite a few times and I think he's going to be pretty good. I know if defense is an issue that complicates matters and since Salome was hurt quite a bit the past year that is an issue too. I guess all things being equal I don't get why Lucroy is skipping a level while Salome has shown to have a pretty darn good bat. I'd have no problem with the two battling it out in spring training, but just 'giving' a guy a job in November seems really strange...

[trwi7]

Maybe they feel Lucroy is better all around at this point?

[sbrylski]

Its hard to read to much into the comments because he could have a number of motivations for them.

 

He's either leveraging Lucroy's value to...

 

1) Trade him.

2) Lower the trade cost of bringing in a veteran.

3) Lower the cost to sign a free agent.

4) Resign Kendall.

 

Its comforting that there's essentially only one wrong decision available to Doug. However, I won't be comfortable until I know for sure option #4 is not being considered.

[The Truth]

I just really hope they don't trade Salome. I've seen him play and think he'll be a terrific hitter in MLB

[SenatorShriv]

I hope that they don't trade either of Lucroy or Salome. I would like to let them battle it out over the course of spring training and let the winner start the year in a true platoon with proven MLB veteran. Someone like Kendall would be fine as long as they were only for late inning defensive replacements and starting 40 - 50% of the games. If the winner of the spring training competition isn't catching fire after a couple of months, we could try to rotate in the other promising young catcher or trade for someone else to fill the platoon role at mid-season.

[battlekow]

More love for Lucroy from Project Prospect:

Lucroy may not be a star, but he's going to be a solid big leaguer -- good arm, footwork, patience, contact and LD bat.

Line-drive bat. He hits the ball hard regularly.

[filthyfrog]

I don't get the comments regarding Lucroy and/or Salome. Especially on the JS...it's like what Salome did with the bat last year was awful. That's not true at all.

 

Salome's bat was fine when he played. I think it's pretty clear that the concerns with Angel are his defense and his inability to stay healthy. He simply needs more time in AAA to prove that he can stay on the field and handle the pitching staff.

 

Another thing to consider is that adding Escobar and Gomez to the everyday lineup will dramatically reduce our ability to take walks. Adding Salome to the lineup would exacerbate that problem, while adding Lucroy, who has shown excellent patience at the plate, has a chance to alleviate it.

[colbyjack]

The support for both players from a variety of people just shows that there is enough promise with both Lucroy and Salome to not give up on either one yet. Having two good catchers in the upper levels of the system is pretty exciting, and catchers are almost as valuable as pitching is. While Melvin has been citing examples of some catchers that made the AA to MLB jump, I still think it would be best to have them both play at AAA next year, splitting ABs between C, 1B and the DH spot (when available) to make sure they're both getting enough ABs and reps behind the dish while also making sure they are both as MLB ready as possible when they do receive the call.

 

I could see one of them being packaged in a deal this offseason, but Melvin shouldn't be "motivated" to deal either one.

[paul253]

Offensively, Salome did better in AAA than Lucroy did in AA. I don't understand why, if you're going to use one of them as a part time MLB player next season, it would be Lucroy. I think we all agree Lucroy is a better all around player. So why not let him continue to progress at a normal pace and let Salome, who at least has faced more advanced pitching, play the part time role in Milwaukee? Heck, I wouldn't be opposed to letting Salmoe start in Nashville, Lucroy in Huntsville, and use Rivera and some cheap backup in Milwaukee to get them both some more time.

[jjfanec]

Offensively, Salome did better in AAA than Lucroy did in AA.

How is that true? Lucroy had an OPS .50 points higher than Salome. The only stat Salome had much better was his average, but Lucroy's OBP was over .100 points higher than his average. For their minor league careers their overall numbers are quite similar. Salome had the amazing year in AA but an OPS around or below .800, 3 of the past 4 years. Lucroy and Salome both looked to profile as solid hitting catchers. Salome has more offensive upside but over the past 4 years he has been closer to Lucroy's overall numbers than to his year 2 years ago.

[Godspeed]

I don't understand why, if you're going to use one of them as a part time MLB player next season, it would be Lucroy.

How about defense? (Although I'd rather see them both continue to develop in the minor leagues at this point.)

[battlekow]

BA's Ben Badler on Lucroy:

While it's been a struggle for the 2008 first-round picks after the grind of their first full professional seasons, Brewers catcher Jonathan Lucroy has been a standout for the Peoria Javelinas.

"He's pretty impressive as a catcher," said an American League scout. "He's been one of the better-if not the best-catchers here. He plays good defense, has just enough power and throws well at times."

One of Lucroy's strengths is his ability to control the strike zone. He stays balanced throughout his swing, his head stays locked in and he has good pitch recognition, which is why he walked (78) more often that he struck out (66) this season with Double-A Huntsville, where he hit .267/.380/.418 in 125 games.

Yet Lucroy has walked just once in 44 trips to the plate in the AFL for the Peoria Javelinas. No worries, as he's still been aggressive within the strike zone, working the count and making plenty of contact with only six strikeouts and a .366/.364/.585 batting line thanks to a short, compact swing that helps him stay inside the ball.

On Tuesday night Lucroy went 1-for-4 with a double and a sacrifice fly, a rocket that clocked in at 105 mph off the bat and took a laser-like route right to Padres center fielder Cedric Hunter. Another one of Lucroy's outs came on a deep fly ball that Hunter tracked down in the right-center field warning track.

"He was pretty steady defensively," said another AL scout. "I wouldn't say anything about his defense was well above-average, but he was just steady and showed me some quickness. The only knock on him I thought has been his power, but he makes consistent contact. The swing is good, he'll show a little pull power-not very much-but he's mostly a doubles guy who works gap to gap."

It could actually be a really good thing that Lucroy's not walking in the AFL. Perhaps Lucroy is recognizing that the air is hot and the pitchers tired and that the cost/benefit analysis of expanding his zone has changed in the favor of swinging more freely, and so he is. If so, that would show that while he has the capacity to be patient, he's not simply drawing walks as a function of being passive against lesser pitching.

[TooLiveBrew]

Good observation on Lucroy's patience, bk.

 

 

"He was pretty steady defensively," said another AL scout. "I wouldn't say anything about his defense was well above-average, but he was just steady and showed me some quickness. The only knock on him I thought has been his power, but he makes consistent contact. The swing is good, he'll show a little pull power-not very much-but he's mostly a doubles guy who works gap to gap."

 

This is a very interesting review on Lucroy imho. The previous scout's comments in the article made me scratch my head a bit, since it wasn't particularly glowing of his defense... and then this one seems to align with that. What interests me is that the Brewers as an org. seem to comment quite a bit about how good Lucroy is defensively (at least 'quite a bit' in comparison with what gets said about Salome's defense). Going by these two scouts' comments, Lucroy's defense really doesn't sound like it could be *that* much better than Salome's.

[marty22]

IMO, scouts' comment usually seem pessimistic, because when they say "average", they mean average at the major league level. It's easy to be disappointed by these comments, but all the scout is saying is that Lucroy doesn't have a cannon arm or a ridiculous pop time. IMO, these comments are in line with the widely-shared opinion that Lucroy will be a solid major leaguer, not a star because he is at least average across the board, but doesn't have any particularly impressive tools (except, i think, his plate discipline).

[TooLiveBrew]

I know what you mean about the use of "average" & that it's not a bad thing to say about a player. I just feel like we just hear so much about Lucroy's defense, and wonder how far ahead of Salome he really is. At this point, it'd seem Lucroy's plate discipline is the biggest difference between the two.

[YoungGeezy]

I say Battle Royale! ha I like both of them and have been a big Salome fan since they picked the kid. The best solution in my opinion is to bring them both in for Spring Training along with Rivera or another catcher and let them all slug it out. The one that overall plays better (not just hitting but the other tangables) wins the job but I do think it should be one or the other with Rivera or FA being their to backup and catch about every 3rd game or so

[sheetskout]

I agree. I hope they give Salome, Lucroy, and Rivera equal-shot at being the starter and the backup. I honestly still think Salome will be the better option when all is said and done.

[battlekow]

Ben Badler joins the Lucroy love-fest:

Hearing more and more good things about Brewers catcher Jonathan Lucroy. Folks impressed with his defense in the AFL

[dadofandrew]

They'll have a good idea who the C will be before they each take part in the tiny sample that is spring training. Each of these guys have tons of PA's and scouting reports...Doug is not going to let a bloop hit here or there decide his long-term direction at the catcher spot.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, judging from the apparent love-fest with Lucroy this offseason & the lack of praise for Salome in general, I think Melvin knows who his guy is.

[jjfanec]

Yeah, judging from the apparent love-fest with Lucroy this offseason & the lack of praise for Salome in general, I think Melvin knows who his guy is.

Melvin has brought Salome up a lot more when talking about his catchers the past two weeks from what I have seen. A lot of the Lucroy love fest lately has been from scouts or writers down covering the AFL. At least three have been tweets from different guys. Melvin has talked about Lucroy more but he has brought Salome up as an option more lately.

[coach32sm]

I saw the AFL championship game, I wish Lucroy luck this Spring. Another GW alum was put on the 40 man roster. Henry Villar with the Astros, we are proud of him a quality kid and a fine pitcher who needs a little size and will dominate. Mike Antonio our 2010 SS is #56 among HS players but we expect him to be in the top 10 by draft day and a top 1st rounder. angel is busting it like never before, soon he will be back to his high school 6.6 speed and that is not a stretch, he's getting quicker everyday and looking great. his protege Jean Carlos Rodriguez just signed with the Angels after a year and a few days with Philly. "Coach"

[battlekow]

More praise for Lucroy from Baseball America:

We already hit on the impression that Brewers catcher Jonathan Lucroy has made on some scouts in the AFL, but that was before talking to Kevin Bradshaw, his manager with the Peoria Javelinas, Bradshaw, the Tigers infield coordinator, managed Lucroy in 2007 in Hawaii Winter Baseball. Lucroy was the Brewers' third-round pick that summer and ranked as the No. 6 prospect in the Rookie-level Pioneer League.

"The progress I've seen him make in two years behind the plate throwing is unbelievable," Bradshaw said. "Everybody I think knows he can hit. He can hit for power and he can hit for average because he uses right-center field real well. But his defensive skills have really improved."

Lucroy, 23, recorded excellent pop times in the low 1.8s in the AFL, where he threw out eight of the 16 runners who tried to steal against him.

"I think the biggest thing is his confidence," Bradshaw said. "He didn't have any confidence in Hawaii at all throwing the baseball, and now he does. He's done a few things footwork-wise that I think maybe has created that confidence. But I know the Brewers are really harping on us for him, when he's not catching, to keep a chart and study these hitters. He's been doing it and it carries over because the next time he catches against them, it's usually a victory for us or a game that's a 3-2 ballgame in a league that's full of good hitters. He's doing an outstanding job."

[kramnoj]

Thanks for the excellent finds, battlekow. At this point, having Lucroy be the main guy is the most compelling and exciting choice for me.