Lucroy and Salome in 2010

[dadofandrew]

Mass, I think you're overestimating a no hit/good field AAA catcher's worth...not may teams are going to pay much for that, as tons of guys are released every year that can defend like Carlos and can't hit a lick.

 

As for Angel, short guys always have to prove themselves more. If they can't do something, the team can easily say, "Ah, he's only 5-7", and move on. One look at the 5-8 or shorter players in the bigs shows it's a tough road, and few make it to the end.

[PlayerHader]

It could be an oversight, but I have to think they are wondering if Angel's frame will allow him to catch 120 games a year.

I'm curious what you mean by this? Angel's frame is short and muscular. His height shouldn't be a detriment while catching. I realize he has had some durability issues, but just curious what about his frame is a negative at catcher?

I thought the same thing, Cheez. Being shorter in stature puts a lot less stress on the knees. If anything his frame is built perfectly for catching 120+ games.

[And That]

I don't think Angel's frame is a particular hinderance in allowing him to catch 120 games, but his propensity for lingering injuries sure is. He's eclipsed 100 games twice in four full years, and even then he barely got over the hump, appearing in 105 games ('06) and 101 games ('08, counting his stint in Milwaukee).

 

Lucroy's healthiness and defense makes him the better prospect right now, even if Salome has the high upside at the plate.

[madrx]

I wonder if Salome could eventually be more of a Javier Valentin type where he catches occasionally but is more of a situational hitter/third catcher. I'm not sure if his bat will necessarily allow this to occur, but his '08 season seems to make this a possibility.

[Hate those Rodents]

If Lucroy gets the amount of games that Kendall got down the road, it will be practically meaningless how good/bad Salome's defense is as the second catcher.

[Tbadder]

For myriad reasons I'd like to trade Salome. He has value but I don't think he has much of a chance at the big league level. He certainly isn't a long term solution because he'll always have to be paired up with a better than average 2nd catcher for the reasons listed in this thread. It's hard enough to find one catcher much less two.

[jjfanec]

The more reports and Ash quotes I hear the more likely I think it is that Salome is packaged for a pitcher. He would be a nice player to add to a deal with JJ or Corey. The trade would take us from catcher being a position of depth to having a lot ride on Lucroy. if Lucroy tore up the AFL and spring training and earned a roster spot then I could see keeping them both with Salome repeating AAA to work on defense and durability. But right now if you were to trade one it would have to bee Salome because of the injury concerns and defense, in my mind.

 

It is a nice position to be in to have to quality catching prospects.

[yoshii8]

I'd just like to point out that Angel Salome is a year removed from a .973 OPS season at Huntsville as a 22 year old. We have had some pretty terrible offensive catchers at the major league level for a long time, and I'd like to change that. He is only going to be 24, and had an injury filled, but decent when healthy, first season at AAA, why is everybody in such a hurry to trade him?

 

 

With what he has shown so far, and from what I've heard about his work ethic, I don't think his value is nearly what it could be. I'd rather just keep him in AAA, and see if his defense and game calling can continue to improve. IMO he has a chance to be a special player, and I'd rather not give up on him yet.

[logan82]

Considering all our other options and the catchers likely to be on the free agent market, I have to think that if Solome had a good year in 2009 he would have been almost a shoe-in to be Milwaukee's starting catcher in 2010.

[thebruce44]

Its not necessarily a case of trading him while his value is down, but I think Salome's value will be much higher after next year. If someone really wants him and the offer is right, add him to a trade. If not though, I don't see the harm of keeping him another year at least and seeing where he is at.

[Hate those Rodents]

I question why so many are against a Rivera/Salome combo for us next year. As though bringing back Kendall or some other crummy free agent is assuredly a better solution than finally having some guts and giving our own guys a shot. I am sick of below average, washed up, should-be backup retreads being counted on by us to man the catching position.

[nate82]

I question why so many are against a Rivera/Salome combo for us next year. As though bringing back Kendall or some other crummy free agent is assuredly a better solution than finally having some guts and giving our own guys a shot. I am sick of below average, washed up, should-be backup retreads being counted on by us to man the catching position.

I don't want Salome in Milwaukee unless he is going to be getting the majority of the starts at catcher. If Salome is up I can almost guarantee you that Rivera would get the majority of the time behind the plate while Salome would sit on the bench which would hurt his development. Salome needs to be playing almost everyday right now and I don't see that happening in Milwaukee. I would rather get a catcher in F/A or have Corporan be the back up catcher than have Salome sit on the bench all year the same with Lucroy.

[Hate those Rodents]

Could be Nate. Not sure yet if it's fair to say Macha will only play the more experienced player though over any talented rookie. Rivera sure didn't play much with only a below average Kendall in his way. There's a chance Macha simply doesn't think Rivera is that good and that he can't handle more than half the games. I do agree that Doug and Ken need to get on the same page before Angel is given a roster spot, as it sure would be dumb to have him sitting on the bench five days a week.

[sveumrules]

2010 will be mike rivera's 8th major league campaign and his age 33 season. he still has yet to accumulate 600 career plate appearances. if that doesn't scream career back up i don't know what does.

 

i have a feeling angel will be used as a sweetener in the JJ deal, lucroy will spend all year and succeed in nashville readying himself for an opening day MLB job in 2011.

[Hate those Rodents]

Sveumrules - there are many of us that think Rivera could have easily at least platooned with Kendall his age 31 and age 32 seasons. Nobody is saying he needs to catch 95% of the games. But as a split-starter with a guy like Salome, I don't think that's a horrible combo.

 

As far as trading Salome....I question if we'd really get any value. What team has a worse catching situation than us going into next season? And he's not good enough to help us out? If I were a gm of another team, I'd simply ask "why is he not in your plans at all and your catching situation is so bleak next year". Then I would give a big time low ball offer for Angel.

[nate82]

As far as trading Salome....I question if we'd really get any value. What team has a worse catching situation than us going into next season? And he's not good enough to help us out? If I were a gm of another team, I'd simply ask "why is he not in your plans at all and your catching situation is so bleak next year". Then I would give a big time low ball offer for Angel.

That is easy to answer the Brewers are in the NL where there is no DH rule so the Brewers can't use him there. Right now Salome is a C or a DH the Brewers can't afford to have Salome behind the plate having horrible defense. If the Brewers were in the AL they could easily bring Salome up next year and have him be the backup catcher and rotating in the DH spot with someone.

[Hate those Rodents]

Two things Nate...

1) I don't think he has "horrible defense". Maybe below average, but I look at Dave Nilsson as horrible. That is a little embellishing imho.

2) If you really see Salome as having a bat ready to play some at the DH positon on an AL team, well then I guess I just see it as pretty foolish to give up on that type of a bat before he's been given a chance to show he is worse for our team than the likes of Moeller/Bennett/Kendall/Rivera.

[coach32sm]

I love how you guys say he is "horrible" Have you ever seen him? He had the HIGHEST % of throwing out runners in the organization before he hurt his thumb. As far as 2010. My take is that the Brewers will sign Benji Molina for one year, this was supposed to be Angels year but he unfortunately messed up in Spring training and August by being hurt both times when the organization could see he IS ML ready. They will not go into Spring training with an unknown (Salome, Lucroy, Rivera) as their everyday catcher. So they will have both Lucroy and Angel in Spring training and Angel will probably start in ML while Lucroy will be in AAA. I doubt if either will be traded. Corporan an Rivera are organizational backups and valuable at that. But again, please dont jump on the "bad defense" bandwagon. Ask any, well most pitchers who have thrown to him just how good he is, thats what counts. I have and most guys I spoke to in the organization love throwing to him, he receives well, is athletic, calls a good game (contrary to Money's comments) and has a cannon which is finally being harnessed. He will be back in NY next week as he is taking care of some family isuues right now and I promise you, you will see a "Pudge" in his prime, type player next year. Also, stop the "size" thing. size matters with the bat, he hit .400 and hit 360 in AA he can hit so size DOES NOT MATTER, besides he is freakin HUGE, he is just short, so what he is a great athlete. "Coach"

[Mass Haas]

I love how you guys say he is "horrible"

 

Hi coach. Always appreciate your visits.

 

Not singling you out, but this always gets under my skin a bit. One poster used the word horrible a couple of posts back, and the thread is then generalized to the point where it appears to be the consensus. It's not.

 

I will say that it's difficult to determine why Brewers management goes out of their way to not compliment and build up Angel in the media with subtle positive quotes, even exaggerated ones. Heck, as a New Englander, I've watched the Red Sox and other large-market clubs do nothing but that in order to create a larger buzz and build up interest and value in their prospects. Even though I believe it has little influence on those that really matter (executives from other organizations), I wish the Brewers did more of that. Particularly in Angel's case, we get nothing in that regard from the Brewers, in fact, either the opposite or just silence.

[yoshii8]

I agree Maas Haas, if pitchers like throwing to him as Coach said, and he has shown improvement throwing out runners, I don't understand why Don Money decides to talk negatively about his defense to the media. Is he trying to motivate him, because I don't think that is the best way to inspire a 22/23 year old athlete.

[TheCrew07]

The best way to motivate an athlete is based on their personality, not their age.

 

Money doesn't go out of his way to compliment anyone, he's always focused on a particular player's flaws, it's not a situation unique to Salome., to be fair Money is usually answering questions about a where a particular player is at in his development. However, he doesn't seem to be an overwhelmingly positive guy, someone said earlier this season that the pope isn't catholic enough for Money, and that's not far from the truth.

 

I do agree with Mass that we never hear anything about Angel either way out of the organization, as in player development/scouting types, it's mostly his manager at the time or roving catching instructor. Lucroy got a ton of positive publicity in Spring Training this season, maybe Salome would have if he had been healthy.

[yoshii8]

The best way to motivate an athlete is based on their personality, not their age.

I understand he is just answering questions, but I don't think that it helps his confidence, which is one of the most important things for any athlete.

[Hate those Rodents]

Not singling you out, but this always gets under my skin a bit. One poster used the word horrible a couple of posts back, and the thread is then generalized to the point where it appears to be the consensus. It's not.

Maybe not to the extent of calling him "horrible", Mass Hass, but it is disturbing in the past year how many people completely overlook Salome, have Lucroy unquestionably as the one that will be our future catcher, want him included in trades this off-season, etc. So, again, horrible might be a bad word to use but a decent-sized contingent here at BF sure doesn't have a ton of respect for Salome with regard to wearing a Milwaukee uniform anytime in the near future.

[coach32sm]

Let the best man win. I know from a reasonable source that Angel was wanted in the Sabathia trade last year but the Brewers refused and gave up other big prospect instead, as you know, but that was last year a lot of things happen in a year. I have a former player of mine who is in Arizona and is impressed with Lucroy and not to compare the two, but each is different and Angel had a weird year this year. Let's hope he's healthy for Spring training and can show everybody how good he is on both sides of the ball. For those who dont want him around, well if he leaves, and goes somewhere else good luck with whom ever replaces him. If he stays I hope you can appreciate what a great person he is besides the player he is. "Coach"

[jjfanec]

It seems like people tend to overreact when someone says they like one prospect more than the other. I really like Lucroy and view him as our catcher of the future. That does not mean I do not like Salome. I love having two good prospects. I just like one a little more than the other. If the Brewers keep both I will be very happy. If the Brewers trade either one for the pitching they desperately need I will be happy. I would like to see them keep Lucroy because I feel like he is more complete, even if he does not have the upside Salome could have.

 

For what it is worth Gord Ash had very good things to say about both players in his interview on I think it was brewers.com. I do not have time to put the link in here. He talked about Salome's improving defense and Lucroy great start to the AFL