When Do We Trade Prince?

[nate82]

To me, though, you absolutely must fire Doug Melvin before trading Prince. I shudder at the thought of whom Melvin would trade Prince for. 2 Jeff Suppan's circa 2006 and a Kevin Mench style first baseman are my first inclination. Even if you tell Melvin he must trade Prince only for young pitchers, I'm not confident as to his ability to judge pitching talent.

No why would you do that and where do you get this notion from? If Prince were to be traded Melvin wouldn't be looking for a Suppan like pitcher he would be looking for 1.) Gallardo, 1.) Gamel, and 2.) Parra's. Just because the Brewers haven't gotten pitching talent in the draft doesn't mean Melvin can't judge pitching talent because he has. All of the pitchers the Brewers have drafted under Melvin and Jack Z have gotten injured. You can't really predict that happening and there still are some very promising arms in the minors. If one or two of those players don't get injured do you still say the same thing about Melvin?

 

Even the Rays have missed on pitching prospects in the first round. Not everything they draft turns to gold.

 

If you trade Prince what does that tell Braun?

That they aren't happy fielding a 4th place team with a .483 winning percentage?

And if the Brewers don't get back top flight MLB ready talent? That then tells Braun that the Brewers really are not interested in helping him out but are being cheap and not getting the talent he wants to be competitive in the league. Braun is someone who wants to be winning every year and Prince helps him win every year. I just do not see Braun being very happy if Prince is traded.

[DougJones43]

Braun is someone who wants to be winning every year and Prince helps him win every year.

They're not winning this year.

[trwi7]

And if the Brewers don't get back top flight MLB ready talent? That then tells Braun that the Brewers really are not interested in helping him out but are being cheap and not getting the talent he wants to be competitive in the league. Braun is someone who wants to be winning every year and Prince helps him win every year. I just do not see Braun being very happy if Prince is traded.

Too bad for Braun. I want what's best for the Brewers in the present and future. If Braun is so upset about it then he can wait until Melvin is fired and then give Attanasio his resumé for GM.

[Invader3K]

I don't think the Ryan Braun concern is an issue...he probably is fully aware Prince will likely be gone in a couple years.

[pete]

Any player who wants his team to be competitive is trying to be a GM?

 

Braun could net some good pitching. Doesn't that mean we should trade him along with the majority of the roster? Heck as long as we are going Pirates, why not flip Gallardo as he won't be around when the team is competitive and since there are probably going to be a few years of low attendance, his arby years might be too expensive.

 

Or we could keep most of the roster. Make a trade or two. Sign a FA or two.

[DougJones43]

Braun could net some good pitching. Doesn't that mean we should trade him along with the majority of the roster? Heck as long as we are going Pirates, why not flip Gallardo...

Holy strawman...

 

Or we could keep most of the roster. Make a trade or two. Sign a FA or two.

You think small fixes like that are going to be enough to put the Brewers into playoff contention? I don't.

[Schlitz001]

I would think DM's first plan of action for this offseason is to try and acquire pitching through FA and making a trade for Hardy/Hart/McGehee. If there is a can't miss deal on the table for Prince, you have to think he will go that route, but I would think he would want to wait another year before dealing. Even with his defensive woahs, you can't just replace a guy like Prince. He's a top 5 offensive power in the league.

 

Also, DM is not known for acquiring pitching, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened before.......Coco Cordero, Justin Duchscherer (TX), Capuano, De La Rosa, Bush, Cody, Torres last year.

[DougJones43]

I would think DM's first plan of action for this offseason is to try and acquire pitching through FA

That's where he got Suppan and Looper. I have serious doubts that we'll find any real answers in FA.

[jeffy]

I think I'm moving towards the "lets resign Prince" camp. We'd be really really bad without him.

They seem to be really bad with him, too.

[BrewCrewForever]

I think you trade him after the 2010 season. You should get a very nice package back for him that can help keep you competitive with the guys we already have in Braun, Weeks, Escobar and Gamel.

[BrewCrewForever]

Awhile back on Homer's show they were talking about when to trade Prince and what you could get for him. Mitch, Homer's producer said what if the Dodgers offered James Loney, Andre Ethier and a pitcher for him? Would you do it? I think I would.

[pete]

Holy strawman...

 

Not really. Blowing up the roster isn't going to produce a contender soon. How many years of rebuilding do you think it will take? If it isn't in the next few, then why keep players while you're not contending, to sell tickets?

[nate82]

Holy strawman...

Holy facepalm batman!

http://www.delawareliberal.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/facepalm.jpg

 

There are free agents out there that can help turn the team around. Escobar and Lackey being some pitchers who will be available. Both Lackey and Escobar can be considered #1's or #2's though I believe Escobar is more of a #3 right now with his age. Both of those players are 10 times better than Suppan the only Suppan's and Looper's out there is Washburn. Even Bedard might be possible depending on how bad his injury is even Sheets could be a possibility and I believe there will be more depth in AAA next year with Capuano and Butler in AAA next year. Both will be definitely better than Burns, Dillard, and Smith.

[DougJones43]

Not really. Blowing up the roster isn't going to produce a contender soon.

We were all talking about trading Fielder. You began talking about trading Braun and Gallardo, which nobody else was. You were arguing against a stance/opinion that is non-existent, hence the strawman reference.

 

Trading Prince wouldn't necessarily make the team worse or put them into rebuilding mode. Again, with a good return that improved the starting staff now or by 2011 at the latest, the TEAM might be better. The offense would take a hit, but it's very possible that a team with with above-average hitting and average pitching will win more games overall than a team with very-good hitting and terrible pitching.

[logan82]

The thing that really hurt us wasn't our starting pitching as much as our lack of anybody behind those top 5 guys.

[DougJones43]

The thing that really hurt us wasn't our starting pitching as much as our lack of anybody behind those top 5 guys.

How good do you really think the Brewers would be if Bush and Suppan had stayed healthy? Maybe a few games better, assuming Bush didn't perform like the first-half of last year and Suppan didn't perform like September/October of last year. We might be hanging right around .500 right now. That's not what I'm looking for. The pitching needs to be better, and I along with others think we should be willing to sacrifice some offense to do it.

[logan82]

We would have been able to put in a decent replacement for Parra earlier in the season. Putting in a decent pitcher for Bush would have also made a difference. We could have pulled him a couple games sooner. We really left both of those guys out there much longer than we would have if our AAA pitching was good at all.

[trwi7]

The thing that really hurt us wasn't our starting pitching as much as our lack of anybody behind those top 5 guys.

We have one of the worst staffs in majors. Four of our opening roster starters this year have ERA's over 5.

[pete]

We were all talking about trading Fielder. You began talking about trading Braun and Gallardo, which nobody else was. You were arguing against a stance/opinion that is non-existent, hence the strawman reference.

 

You were talking about a "major overhaul." If the team makes a major overhaul, they are going to have to rebuild in my estimation. Its a pretty natural extrapolation to trade key players who won't be around when the team isn't competitive. I don't think a major overhaul is a good idea, but if they do it, they should do it, not flip a marquee player in the hope you'll be better in a couple years.

[DougJones43]

When I said major overhaul, I meant to overhaul the starting pitching on the major league club and possibly high minors, by trading Fielder. I thought I made that clear, and I still don't know how you're then making the jump to automatically trading Braun and Gallardo -- especially Gallardo. Why would I be suggesting we trade our only good young pitcher when I've been harping on improving starting pitching depth? It doesn't even make sense, you're putting words into my mouth, and you know it.

 

And again, just because you think trading one player means they HAVE to rebuild doesn't necessarily make it so. It's very possible that trading one player away (even if he is your best player) can result in the team as a whole improving. If you think it's impossible, that's fine -- but I don't and therefore am not suggesting a full-blown rebuilding.

[pebadger]

I'm torn on the whole Prince thing. I'm a big believer that you need big-time players to really make a dent in the playoffs, and to me that is the ultimate goal in assembling a team. I understand that first you have to have a team capable of making the playoffs, but trading away a guy like Prince to improve the team may also imply potentially capping the team's ceiling for some amount of time while simultaneiouly making them 'better'. Not a certainty, but something I'd want to guard against in making any trade decision.

 

For a franchise like Milwaukee that simply can't buy guys of that caliber, you most likely have to catch lightning in a bottle with one of your picks or one of the guys you pick up in trade if you ever want to replace a guy like Feilder (or Braun) any time soon after you trade them, and that's a pretty dicey proposition. Guess that's why the GMs make the big bucks, and why there isn't a huge degree of job security for most in that position.

[smetana34]

Trade Prince. We need pitching so badly. Him and Hardy should be able to net something very nice. How would Lopez look at 1st? Just tossing around an idea there. This team is too relient on the longball. Lopez is the ideal hitter. Hit .300 and run a little bit. Him, Escobar, Cameron, Braun, Weeks, and Hart can all run. Defense and pitching wins championships.

 

Escobar

Lopez

Braun

McGehee

Weeks

Cameron

Hart

Salome/Lucroy

Pitcher

 

Not all that bad, is it?

[logan82]

trwi7 wrote:

We have one of the worst staffs in majors. Four of our opening roster starters this year have ERA's over 5.

Parra and Bush should not be expected to be 5+ ERA pitchers. They underperformed badly this year. Bush's ERA inflated after being hit by a line drive. A starting rotation of Gallardo, Parra, Bush, Suppan and Looper is solid if unspectacular if they stay healthy. It would keep us in the division race. When one guy underperforms and there is nothing to do but hope he gets better is when things start to go bad.

 

Our record looks pretty good until the end of June when Bush and Suppan went down. If we had even replacement level 6th - 8th starters, we would be at least hanging around .500.

[RockCoCougars]

No way do you trade Prince at this juncture. As hard as I was on him last year, think about where this team would be this year without him. Who would you get of equal value? Unless you are getting a proven top 10 MLB starter, I don't see the point. It makes no sense to trade him for say two unproven middle of the rotation guys.

[smetana34]

No way do you trade Prince at this juncture. As hard as I was on him last year, think about where this team would be this year without him. Who would you get of equal value? Unless you are getting a proven top 10 MLB starter, I don't see the point. It makes no sense to trade him for say two unproven middle of the rotation guys.

Come on now, Prince would bring more then that. Are you serious?