International Draft and slotting coming after 2011?

[nate82]

It looks as though Selig is pushing for an international draft and a slotting system for the draft.

 

From the Washington Post.

"There's no question in my mind, in 2011, certainly a [hard] slotting system and a worldwide draft are things we will be very aggressive in talking about," Selig said.

[Invader3K]

Thank goodness. It's about time. Why it's taken so long is beyond me, but the owners better be ready to fight the players.

[Funketown]

I'm not really sure how I feel about slotting the signing bonuses, but the international draft is long overdue. Being a hockey fan, I can't even imagine how absurd it would be if they had international free agency along with no salary cap. Ovechkin, Malkin, et. al would all be Red Wings (yes, I know it's different since hockey players develop at such age).

[Invader3K]

It will diminish the influence of people like Scott Boras on the draft, and that is only a plus, in my opinion.

[bball123h]

Thank goodness. It's about time. Why it's taken so long is beyond me, but the owners better be ready to fight the players.

I don't think it'll be a big fight from the union. Less draft $$ = more free agent cash = more union $$. That said, if they go with a hard slot, other changes need to be made to the system.

 

Right now your HS draftee can go to college, and your college juniors and juco guys can also go back. If there is a hard slot with no other tweaks, those guys can go back to school if they feel they fall too far. They'd need to adopt something like the NFL where, once you declare eligible, there's no going back. Maybe the team gets to hold the player's rights without limit if they offer a contract.

[nate82]

Right now your HS draftee can go to college, and your college juniors and juco guys can also go back. If there is a hard slot with no other tweaks, those guys can go back to school if they feel they fall too far. They'd need to adopt something like the NFL where, once you declare eligible, there's no going back. Maybe the team gets to hold the player's rights without limit if they offer a contract.

Something like the NHL draft would be a fix for this. A team could hold onto the players draft rights for 4 years or they could be sold to another team for cash or a player. That is what I would like to see especially the ability to trade the rights to a player or to sell the rights for a player to another team.

[pitchleague]

the ability to trade draft picks is something that I would like to see.

[PrimeTime955]

It will diminish the influence of people like Scott Boras on the draft, and that is only a plus, in my opinion.

Why do people hate Boras so much? Because he's the best at what he does? Would people prefer it if he were crappier at his job?

[Invader3K]

He controls many of the potential first round picks in any given year, and his hardball contract demands often mean teams have to pass on certain players they would normally draft because they can't afford them. The whole "signability" issue. There's also the fact that his tactics make it almost impossible for a team like the Brewers to retain a player like Prince Fielder, but that's another whole separate issue.

 

I don't really hate the guy personally...he is very good at what he does, there is no denying that. If you look at his track record, he's actually made some pretty significant gaffes over the years, though.

 

It's partly the owners' and commissioner's fault for not taking care of the draft situation much sooner.

 

As far as some of the ideas here, I do like the idea of teams retaining control of players if they do go back to college or elsewhere. I'm not sure about trading draft picks...it seems to have reached a somewhat silly level in the NFL. I don't know whether or not I'd like to see that in MLB.

[madbad2000]

I used to be about trading picks...I think I'm against it now. It is different in football where the picks pretty much play right away and you can use that pick to fill a hole on your team.

 

I would like to see an international draft, hard slotting system. Teams control the players rights for 4 years. Rights can be traded after 1 year. If a player who was drafted say 15th in the 1st round doesn't sign...eventually signs after 3 years...he would get the average of the slotting dollars from when he was drafted and the slot value at 15 for that year.

 

I just think bonuses are getting pretty ridiculous for the amount of risk there is with minor leaguers. I'm also on record as saying baseball needs a cap and a floor, but that should be another thread.

[monty57]

Thank goodness. It's about time. Why it's taken so long is beyond me, but the owners better be ready to fight the players.

I don't think it'll be a big fight from the union. Less draft $$ = more free agent cash = more union $$. That said, if they go with a hard slot, other changes need to be made to the system.

 

Right now your HS draftee can go to college, and your college juniors and juco guys can also go back. If there is a hard slot with no other tweaks, those guys can go back to school if they feel they fall too far. They'd need to adopt something like the NFL where, once you declare eligible, there's no going back. Maybe the team gets to hold the player's rights without limit if they offer a contract.

 

Agreed, the fight would come from the big market teams, who can use their available cash to sign top talent that small market teams can't afford to draft. This is the big problem with the current system. The worst teams get the best picks, but often can't afford to sign the best players, so the better teams with worse picks can still get the best players. In listening to Melvin's rants, it seemed to go one step further this year. Draft eligible players were deciding which teams they wanted to play for, and telling all the other teams not to bother drafting them, as they wouldn't sign unless they were drafted by a team they wanted to play for. It seems something needs to be done, and (on paper at least) a "hard slot" would be a pretty easy fix.

 

I have never liked that certain international players weren't subject to the draft, but there are a couple of points that will need to be addressed. A couple that come to mind are that Japanese teams will not allow their players out of their contracts unless they are compensated, which may lead to Japanese superstars not arriving until they're out of their prime. Also, teams have put a lot of money into their Latin American programs, which would seem to be useless if all of the players need to declare for the draft. Finally, the players' union will fight this one, as players like Matsusaka (? sp) would get league minimum rather than $50MM, so the union would lose a ton of money. I'm all for the international draft, but I'd guess there will be a lot of opposition.

[nate82]

I have never liked that certain international players weren't subject to the draft, but there are a couple of points that will need to be addressed. A couple that come to mind are that Japanese teams will not allow their players out of their contracts unless they are compensated, which may lead to Japanese superstars not arriving until they're out of their prime. Also, teams have put a lot of money into their Latin American programs, which would seem to be useless if all of the players need to declare for the draft. Finally, the players' union will fight this one, as players like Matsusaka (? sp) would get league minimum rather than $50MM, so the union would lose a ton of money. I'm all for the international draft, but I'd guess there will be a lot of opposition.

The baseball academy's in Latin America and South America can stay because you can just change those to minor league affiliates or into a Latin or South America league. The big problem is who has ownership of the teams? Will it be just one big cooperative where MLB takes over and a few MLB teams get to share a Latin or South America team?

 

For the Japanese players and other foreign players you could have an age limit on who can enter the draft. If a player is older than 26 years old they can become exempt from the draft. Meaning they have played enough professional baseball in their country and are at least 1 to 2 years older than the oldest college senior entering the draft. Also MLB could do what the NBA does with its international draftees. That is the team can only pay x-amount of money to the team the player belongs to. MLB could do it as a percentage of the slot where the player is drafted or it could be a hard line where a team could only pay x-amount to the foreign team.

[monty57]

Just to be devil's advocate (I am a supporter of an international draft):

 

Say team A has invested tens of millions of dollars into their latin camp and it is starting to pay off in bringing talent to their major and minor league systems

 

team B gave up on their latin camp 15 years ago and has not put a dime in since

 

Team A is going to lose out with the implementation of an international draft, as any player from these countries will have to declare themselves eligible for the draft, and it will be pretty easy to send some scouts down to look at the players declaring. The millions of dollars invested in team A's program will be a sunk cost with extremely limited additional returns. I think you are correct in thinking that some form of a MLB-affiliated Latin American Minor League system could be very popular and profitable. Of course, it would probably be kind of an equivalent of high school baseball up here, as the advanced prospects would likely still play in the current (USA based) minor league teams.

 

For Japan (and Cuba), implementing an age limit would not address the main problem, as most of the big name players (Ichiro, Matsusaka, Fukudome, etc) are already established players when they come over, and they are the ones that give teams like the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs an advantage over smaller market teams. The "percentage of slot money" idea is probably a better solution, but I would guess that any solution will likely mean that we'll lessen the number of superstar Japanese players coming over, which would be a shame. However, I can get over this pretty easily by noting that it will limit the unfair advantage certain teams have in signing these players.

[nate82]

Say team A has invested tens of millions of dollars into their latin camp and it is starting to pay off in bringing talent to their major and minor league systems

 

team B gave up on their latin camp 15 years ago and has not put a dime in since

 

Team A is going to lose out with the implementation of an international draft, as any player from these countries will have to declare themselves eligible for the draft, and it will be pretty easy to send some scouts down to look at the players declaring. The millions of dollars invested in team A's program will be a sunk cost with extremely limited additional returns. I think you are correct in thinking that some form of a MLB-affiliated Latin American Minor League system could be very popular and profitable. Of course, it would probably be kind of an equivalent of high school baseball up here, as the advanced prospects would likely still play in the current (USA based) minor league teams.

 

For Japan (and Cuba), implementing an age limit would not address the main problem, as most of the big name players (Ichiro, Matsusaka, Fukudome, etc) are already established players when they come over, and they are the ones that give teams like the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs an advantage over smaller market teams. The "percentage of slot money" idea is probably a better solution, but I would guess that any solution will likely mean that we'll lessen the number of superstar Japanese players coming over, which would be a shame. However, I can get over this pretty easily by noting that it will limit the unfair advantage certain teams have in signing these players.

It would be like a scouting department in Latin or South America basically. If team B decides not to put an academy down there then so be it and team A puts one in there who do you think is going to have an advantage when finding those diamonds that just need to be polished to become valuable? I'm going to put my money on team A finding one of those over team B. Team A will also already have a head start on team B in terms of scouting and finding players that show a lot of potential but just need to be polished a little bit more.

 

As for the age limit I don't see it being fair for a player who is older than the average draft players having to come into the draft. Does that give the bigger markets more of an advantage? Sure it does but these players will be free agents and the only way they could bypass the draft would be if they were not on a foreign team meaning their contracts have expired. This might be a compensation for the large markets teams for them to accept thus allowing an international draft to take place.

 

I just can't get behind a 30 year old Japanese player entering the draft or someone who is 4 or 5 years older than the oldest senior college player in the draft. Those players are not amateur players anymore and shouldn't be treated as such.

[monty57]

But those "diamonds in the rough" would need to enter the draft, so one team's academy would polish them up for another team to draft them. An unintended consequence of an international draft would likely be that MLB teams would be less likely to take teenagers and help them become major league talented players unless they were able to draft them when they were 15 or 16, which would carry a huge risk, and would have labor law (and contract law) issues if the players ever came to the U.S.

 

I also think players like Ichiro, Matsusaka, etc. probably wouldn't come over if they're going to make $400,000. But how does that really differ from someone like DiFelice? He's toiled in professional baseball for years, and now will make around $400,000 for three years. Or how about Joe Dillon, who was injured and out of baseball, but comes back, and as a rookie made league minimum. Granted, we're talking foreign stars vs. American scrubs, but in theory, if a very good American player comes in at age 30 without ever playing in the majors, he will be subject to pre-arbitration salary and arbitration before he'll be allowed to become a free agent.

 

If you are not going to draft accomplished foreign players, and you are going to let academies find "diamonds in the rough" and put them in that team's roster, who is going to be drafted in the international draft? I don't think there's a huge market for Japanese high schoolers and "undiscovered" 19-year-old Latin players. That really is a question I have: "What international players will be in the draft?" I had assumed it to mean that Cuban defectors, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, etc. players, and young Latino players would all be subject to the draft, just like Americans and Canadians are.

 

Again, there are a lot of issues that will need to be ironed out. You've brought up some good points, which makes me worry that the "international draft" will occur and we won't find many good major league players out of it, due to all the loopholes.

[nate82]

If you are not going to draft accomplished foreign players, and you are going to let academies find "diamonds in the rough" and put them in that team's roster, who is going to be drafted in the international draft? I don't think there's a huge market for Japanese high schoolers and "undiscovered" 19-year-old Latin players. That really is a question I have: "What international players will be in the draft?" I had assumed it to mean that Cuban defectors, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, etc. players, and young Latino players would all be subject to the draft, just like Americans and Canadians are.

No they are not going into a teams system they are just going to get an advanced scouting. Those academies are not going to go away and they will still be there they will just be there as an advanced scouting department. More like a free clinic of baseball MLB should also set an age limit at which a player is eligible to be in the draft and when they would be considered a free agent. From the age of 17-27 should be the age of which players should be able to enter the draft. At age 27 you are no longer considered a prospect really and that is the prime of a players career. They shouldn't have to wait to be paid after that. Yes others do like Dillon and others who come in late but if they were as good as their counterparts coming from Japan or Latin or South America they would get the same deal. Imagine if Dillon put up numbers like Ichiro did in Japan and everyone was ranting and raving about his potential at the age of 28 do you really think Dillon would get a contract like he did now or would it be something like what Ichiro got?

 

You are going to have to give something for the big market clubs and having an age maximum would be something I could see the large market clubs going along with and even the players union would go along with it. I just can not get behind someone who is 30 years old taking away a spot in the draft for someone who is nearly half their age. The big market teams will still benefit from signing the older Japanese players but any player who wants to come over and is younger than 28 years old they are going to have to enter the draft. 27 years old is as old as I would go with a player in the draft.

[BrewCrewForever]

Love this idea, really hope it gets done. Not sure why it took so long, should have been doing it for years.

[trwi7]

If a player who was drafted say 15th in the 1st round doesn't sign...eventually signs after 3 years...he would get the average of the slotting dollars from when he was drafted and the slot value at 15 for that year.

Would that be how it is for all later picks? Because I don't think that's fair. Take Tim Lincecum for instance, he was drafted in the 48th round out of high school and decided to go to college. Then he re-entered the draft a couple years later and was drafted in the 42nd round and then entered a year later and was drafted 10th overall. So would the same apply to all players and Lincecum would still get the 48th round bonus? Or is there a cut-off that you don't have your rights retained by the team that selected you if you don't sign and are selected after a certain round? Because I don't think collegiate players should be punished for deciding to go to school to try and improve their stock.

[mothershipconnection]

A true international draft, for the reasons already cited here, would not be feasible. The only practical solution would be forfeiture of draft picks by a team that signs an international player for more than $X. Signing more $25,000 Venezuelan kids doesn't give a team an unfair advantage, so it'd be easiest to just leave things alone for players paid less than a modest amount. A $40MM Japanese player, on the other hand, should cost you your first rounder just like a $40MM American FA would.

 

I do think the hard slotting system would be fantastic, as poor teams would no longer let first round talent fall to rich teams in the 3rd round because they want too much. Teams would all take the best player available and the crappiest teams would get the best talent that year.

 

I'll be really excited if this ends up happening, because it would bring a lot of balance to teams without the union no-no of a salary cap that'd result in another strike.

[endaround]

For a world wide draft to occur MLB would have to take over Latin American scouting. Basically they would set up national academies bringing in 14 year olds and graduating 17-18 year olds.