Bill Hall traded to Mariners for P Ruben Flores

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

From what I have heard on Flores - He has a live arm and was used as a closer in low A. He's got a solid attitude, but his problems have been more mental. Sounds like a long shot project. They get a free look at him, then he's an FA at year's end. Seattle was unlikely to resign him.

[logan82]

To be honest, I am very surprised we got anything at all for Hall. Teams could have just waited a few more days and signed him for nothing.

[Menace II Sobriety]

Am I missing something here. I read the posts but could have missed someone else bringing up this point. MA already turned down a Harang for Hardy deal before the deadline because of the salary implications next year. If we cannot get Harang for Hardy how could we ever get him for Hall. Like I said if I missed this I apologize.

 

On top of this good luck in Seattle Bill, he just didn't have it anymore and when you have a guy on your team making that kind on money that is best case 3rd on the depth chart he has to go.

 

Even some salary relief at this point is a great get, saving that cash is like getting Kentrail Davis for free.

[MNBrew]

Gord Ash:

...when you're in this situation when you designate a player for assignment and you're a day removed from releasing that player...

 

 

(and we had no choice but to put ourselves under this time pressure by DFAing Hall, because we needed both Iribarren and Bourgeois on the MLB roster NOW, not in three weeks...those two players were the key to our strategy for making a run at the playoffs.) http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/ohwell.gif

 

 

I still don't get what you think would've been gained by keeping Hall on the roster, or what you think the Brewers might've gotten in return if Hall had just gone through waivers.

 

Hall's a swell guy and very athletic, but as someone said, he was as useful to the '09 Brewers as a paper weight. If every other GM hadn't figured that out, someone would've offered us something to take him off our hands some time ago -- probably back when he hadn't fully proven that he was never going to improve enough to matter in Milwaukee ever again.

 

Jack Z. needed an IF and simply did DM a favor to give up an arm (of questionable merit) and minimal salary relief.

[kramnoj]

MA already turned down a Harang for Hardy deal before the deadline because of the salary implications next year.

 

AFAIK this was reported, but I don't know how much it should be believed. When I read that, I just assumed that the message got garbled by the time it got to the writer. I highly doubt that Hardy for Harang was turned down because of money. I very much believe it was turned down because the Brewers hope to get something better than Harang back this offseason when they trade Hardy.

[Diskono]

Am I missing something here. I read the posts but could have missed someone else bringing up this point. MA already turned down a Harang for Hardy deal before the deadline because of the salary implications next year. If we cannot get Harang for Hardy how could we ever get him for Hall. Like I said if I missed this I apologize.

Hall's salary is considerably higher than Hardy's, so we wouldn't be increasing payroll as much if we were to trade Hall. Its essentially a swap of bad contracts (though I don't think Harang's contract is that bad, personally).

[jwill535]

I can almost guarantee that Hall was put through waivers and I would imagine no one claimed him. I would also bet my salary that they would have gotten the same deal regardless if it was a waiver deal or a DFA. No team was going to take on his salary or if they did give up anything in return for it.

 

Since Flores will be a FA anyways, I say bring him up and see what he can do.

[Baldkin]

Jeff Sackmann revisited Hall's initial deal over at THT.

 

I pretty much agree with him, the deal was a total no-brainer at the time, considering Hall's age, and how many different positions he could play. It would've been impossible to predict that his bat would completely disappear.

[Invader3K]

Since Flores will be a FA anyways, I say bring him up and see what he can do.

Wait, so we could lose him after this season already?

[jeffy]

I still don't get what you think would've been gained by keeping Hall on the roster, or what you think the Brewers might've gotten in return if Hall had just gone through waivers.

 

 

I have no idea what they might have gotten by going the waiver route, but DFAing him certainly put them in a worse negotiating position. What was gained by DFAing him rather than going through waivers? I was being sarcastic, but really that is all that changed, isnt it...we have either Iribarren or Bourgeois 3 weeks earlier than what would have been the worst case scenario (ie. no trade) had they gone with waivers.

 

The Brewers, via Gord Ash, are saying that the deadline pressure was a factor in what they were able to get. Several posters have said the same thing. The Brewers created this pressure themselves for no good reason.

 

[stoutdude04]

Wait, so we could lose him after this season already?

I thought I read somewhere that he was going to be a 6 year FA guy.

[Invader3K]

Well, at the time the Brewers were considering themselves still "in it", and hence the move was partly designed to kick the team in the pants and hopefully get them playing a bit better. That part clearly didn't work, but I don't think it was totally without merit.

[jeffy]

Since Flores will be a FA anyways, I say bring him up and see what he can do.

Wait, so we could lose him after this season already?

 

Yeah, apparently we got a rental to help the Manatees in their playoffs.

 

Or could it possibly be that he was window dressing, so the fans could be told that we got a pitching prospect.

[Postseason2006]

Cincy should've wanted Hall since that is one of his better places to hit.

 

The main reason I am disappointed was Melvin publicly making the announcement of "working on something". It's like his comments of at the deadline of almost getting the big fish. Why make either comment?

 

So which one do we believe? This is why I have no faith in where this team is headed.

[DougJones43]

The Brewers first mistake was bringing Hall back up after only 3 days in AAA, or whatever it was. If he had gone down and hit well there for a couple of weeks, his trade value might have at least gotten to the point where teams would have been willing to take on a little more salary than what Seattle did.

 

Prematurely bringing Hall back up to play RF, and then "making a example of him" during the blood-letting frenzy (effectively putting him in a position to become a free agent in a matter of days) was the nail in the coffin of completely destroying any chance of getting better salary relief or a decent return for Hall.

[TheCrew07]

The way things went down the Brewers weren't going to get anything more for him than they did.

 

However, the situation was handled in the least best possible way, if you're sending a player down, then keep the player down until he figures it out or you decide he's done. Why send a player (3B) down for less than week to recall him to play RF, to DFA him a week later? It's as silly as recalling Parra because they needed a pitcher instead of letting him work all the way through his issues, to bring him back after 1 good start still puzzles me.

[SeriesFinale]

However, the situation was handled in the least best possible way, if you're sending a player down, then keep the player down until he figures it out or you decide he's done. Why send a player (3B) down for less than week to recall him to play RF, to DFA him a week later?

Well, to be fair, that was prompted by Corey's appendectomy.

 

But yeah, why not bring up Bourgeois at the time instead and let Hall work on his swing in AAA to be trade bait for off-season? And like jeffyscott said, now they had this artificial deadline to try and get something/anything for him.

 

I'm not on the Fire DM bandwagon quite yet, but this was a bit of a head-scratcher.

[joepepsi]

To be honest, I am very surprised we got anything at all for Hall.

Me too. Good luck Bill. Won't be surprised if you hit 25 homers next year as the starting ss for the M's.

[Thurston Fluff]

Igawa has no value to the Yankees and is owed $9 million over the next two years. I was just saying that I think a trade like that made sense for both teams.

 

Hall is only on the books for one mroe year and Igawa is terrible. Why trade one year of crap for two years of crap when you can get rid of all the crap and save some money to boot?

 

I think Jack Z did Melvin a favor, paying as much as he did.

 

The only way Jack could make sure to get Hall at that price was to trade for him. If Hall got to free agency he could have went anywhere he wanted to for as much as anyone was willing to pay. Jack was doing what he felt was in the best interest of his club not doing anyone a favor.

 

Teams could have just waited a few more days and signed him for nothing.

 

Except all the team who are interested in him could do the same.

 

 

The Brewers, via Gord Ash, are saying that the deadline pressure was a factor in what they were able to get. Several posters have said the same thing. The Brewers created this pressure themselves for no good reason.

 

Some of those same posters wanted to DFA him along time ago. They created this pressure because, unlike fans, they are obligated to do everything they can to stay in the pennant race. At the time they simply did what they felt was necessary to keep their slim hopes alive. I would not be a fan of the team if they did not take this approach. It's ok for me to thin they are out of it but not the team itself. That is quitting. The only time I ever stopped watching this team was in 02 because they quit. I do not think I am alone in thinking that way. I think most fans can stomach a bad year but will not tolerate quitting. See the Pirates for example of what happens when management quits on the season to early.

 

 

Or could it possibly be that he was window dressing, so the fans could be told that we got a pitching prospect.

 

The league frowns on something for nothing deals. It may have had to do with getting league approval for the deal.

[bigredrobbo]

2 weeks ago - "Good riddance - he's a bum. If we get a bag of balls for him I'm happy"!

 

Today - "What? Have they forgotten his 35 homers? The man's a stud, for pete's sake".

 

I mean, did anyone honestly think we'd get a Harang/Arroyo for Bill Hall? Cincy might be stupid, but they're not crazy!

 

"Hey, Walt, how 'bout, no, hear me out here, buddy. How 'bout you take Bill Hall - you know how much he's hurt you in the past, and we get, oh, I don't know, some scrub pitcher, like, maybe that funny-face Harang guy? Then - and this is the part you'll like - you keep paying for Harang and we'll let you pay Bill Hall's salary also, cos we like you?"

[DougJones43]

Today - "What? Have they forgotten his 35 homers? The man's a stud, for pete's sake".

Nobody said anything like that. The biggest problem most people have, is that the way management handled things over the past month with Hall has minimized his trade value rather than maximizing it.

 

With as little room for error as the Brewers have right now and into the immediate future, I would hope they can find a way to be significantly more shrewd with their future dealings, although I'm losing confidence in Melvin by the minute.

[RockCoCougars]

I say it was a stupid move to DFA him. You can't tell me that he didn't have some value. He could play at least 5 positions, and he has some track record of hitting the ball. There are plenty of worse '25th men' in the league. For Pete's sake, we aren't too far from the days of guys like Trent Durrington.

 

Doesn't make a bit of sense to get rid of him and be on the hook for $10 million when they need a utility guy anyway. If they DFA'd anyone, it should have been Suppan. Why does he keep getting chances? He has hurt the team a lot more than Hall did.

[Teatoe993]

How could we have possibly maximized Hall's trade value when he has not been able to hit a baseball for three years now? I don't think a few weeks of raking in AAA is gonna do it.

[kramnoj]

As a point of comparison, when Lugo was DFAed by the Red Sox, they paid all of his remaining salary and got Chris Duncan back in return. If I'm given a hypothetical choice between $1.3M and Chris Duncan, I am comfortable with taking the cash.

[brewmann04]

Brewer with their Staff intact was not good enough to win this year. But like i said before Getting Anything For Hall is a good thing.