My 2010 lineup and bench

[jjfanec]

Folks... this year to date, Escobar's had ZERO extra-base hits in the majors.

 

I'm not sure he's quite the answer.

I am pretty one would need more than 22 at bats to judge a player.

[dlk9s]

Folks... this year to date, Escobar's had ZERO extra-base hits in the majors.

 

I'm not sure he's quite the answer.

I am pretty one would need more than 22 at bats to judge a player.

And both Fielder and Braun have had longer XBH-less streaks this season.

[Invader3K]

Escobar has played in a total of 7 games so far this year....I don't think a week's worth of starts is exactly enough to give any kind of determination on what kind of player he is.

 

The bottom line is that the offense will need to be populated by some young, cheap players if the team is going to spend money to acquire good pitching, or have any hope to re-sign Fielder in the near future.

[BrewCrewForever]

Folks... this year to date, Escobar's had ZERO extra-base hits in the majors.

I'm not sure he's quite the answer.

 

Too small of a sample. He won't hit a lot of home runs, but can hit doubles and triples. Besides, his speed has already shown that it can be a weapon.

[joepepsi]

The Orioles are probably not yet to the point of being competitive, but I wish they'd have an interest in Hardy. But Izturis is signed through next year, and they may consider Hardy too old to be part of their rebuilding process.

 

Still, I'm guessing they'd be willing to trade Pie, a player who think of as the next Corey Patterson, but who really has improved as the season rolled along. He is hitting 290/336/460 in his last 108 plate appearances dating back to May 3. Granted that's limited duty and almost exclusively against righties, but he can play CF.

 

The Orioles won't trade Tillman, Matusz, Arrieta, or Bergesen for Hardy, but I'd settle for one of their "lesser" pitching prospects like David Hernandez or Troy Patton plus Pie for Hardy.

 

OF: Hart, Pie, Braun

IF: Prince, Weeks, Escobar, Gamel, Counsell, McGehee

C: Rivera, Corporan or Salome

Rotation: Yo, Parra, Hernandez, Bush, Suppan

Bullpen: Usual collection of mutts.

 

...OK, I can dream can't I?

[MJLiverock]

I'm not so sure I want to see Hart in CF, he hasn't been all that great in RF. He just doesn't seem to get a very good jump on the ball or read it off the bat. Sure Cameron has spoiled us to some degree with his amazing jumps but Hart would be bringing back the old days of Clark and Pods in CF, probably more like Pods, speed with no ability to read the ball. Clark was more of a no speed, play on the warning track guy.

[logan82]

Folks... this year to date, Escobar's had ZERO extra-base hits in the majors.

 

I'm not sure he's quite the answer.

I am pretty one would need more than 22 at bats to judge a player.

I definitely agree with that. What I find more troubling is that Escobar has hit into more DP this year than Jason Kendall. I won't really make any judgement on Escobar until at least mid season next year though. If we can get a good trade for Hardy, I would do it. I wouldn't be all that upset with Escobar in AAA next year either though. I doubt we are going far next year and would rather save Escobar's service time for later in his career when he is better.

[endaround]

Actually if Hardy is kept in AAA until September Escobar then becomes eminently tradeable.

[davego]

Any thought or chance that Ryan and Prince each move up a spot in the batting order? It might be kind of fun to see both get a 1st inning AB and would be a way to increase their overall AB's over 2010. Rickie could hit #1 or (really outside the box) Rickie hits #4 and Gamel hits #5...

[Invader3K]

Actually if Hardy is kept in AAA until September Escobar then becomes eminently tradeable.

 

Yes, but Escobar will be much cheaper than Hardy for the next couple years.

[endaround]

Sure but Escobar would have the higher trade value right now because of it and its not like Hardy is hugely expensive. Hardy would have to have a huge turn around next season to break $15m over 2 years right now.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Giants.........great pitching, crap hitting.

Brewers.......good hitting, crap pitching.

 

Send them Fielder+ for Matt Cain+

Hardy+ to Boston or Toronto for a young pitcher. I heart Jacob Ellsbury, but there's no way they're giving him to us for a package centered around Hardy.

 

Mostly I'm joking, slightly I'm not. It's early, and I'm tired.

 

I don't know what to do about 1st base if we trade Fielder, and I'm too lazy to look up potential 1B free agents. Maybe Gamel gets hot the rest of the season and proves he belongs in Milwaukee on opening day 2010, but I have my doubts about that.

 

2B Weeks

SS Escobar

LF Braun

1B ?

CF Cameron

RF Hart

3B McGehee/Counsell

C Salome

 

Bench: Gerut, Counsell, Rivera/FA stopgap, Heether or Irraberen, Cat

 

Rotation

Yo

Cain

Bush

Parra

Young pitcher acquired in Hardy trade.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

2B Lopez (if they can get him for 7M or less)

CF Weeks

RF Braun

1B Fielder

LF Dunn

3B Gamel

C Salome/Rivera

SS Escobar

 

Good balance; Against lefties, 5® 3(L), against righties, 4® 4(L). Good speed (escobar, lopez, weeks, and braun), Good power (2,3,4,5, and possibly 6). And should be better overall OBP.

 

Trade Hart or Hardy + prospect for Dunn

Trade McGehee, Hart/Hardy for a high ceiling pitching prospect no lower than AA.

 

Rotation; Yo, Parra, Tim Hudson (one year, take a flier), Bush, Soup

Pen; the usual suspects (keep Coffey, Stetter, Defilece, fill the rest out with youth in our own system; Jeffrees, Wooten, Braddock, Dillard, whoever, take a chance)

Bench; Kapler, Catalanotto, Counsel, Heether.

[FVBrewerFan]

1 SP GALLARDO

2 SP BUSH

3 SP PARRA

4 SP SUPPAN

5 SP BURNS

 

This will look great on all the off season marketing materials. Makes me want to go out and buy season tix!!!

[sgtcluels]

I would go even further and say Riske is done for good.

At least as a Brewer, since he elected to delay and delay his TJ, I doubt we'll ever see him toss as a Brewer again. But some one will give him a reclamation project contract.

[patrickgpe]

the problem with doing this is that half of the position are up for grabs. I can say with certainly Braun will be in left, Fielder at 1st, Escobar at SS and most likely Weeks at 2nd. Who is playing center, right, catcher or 3rd is really not known. Then when you go to the rotation i think yo is a good 1, bush a 3, soup a 4, and parra a 5. They really need a #2 which is not easy to get I know. Regarding the pen, that is a huge question mark. Right now you are looking at Coffey closing, Weathers setting him up, Stetter as your lefty, maybe CV as you long man. The pen needs huge upgrades this offseason.

[LouisEly]

The pen isn't a huge question mark - it was their strength this year until the wear of the lack of quality starting pitching since mid-June taxed them. Coffey, DiFelice, Stetter, Weathers, McClung was good until he was forced into the rotation, Smith was just fine, and maybe Vargas has found his niche in the bullpen and could be a decent long man. Personally I'd rather have any of those guys back before Villanueva, but some people think he is fine, and they have Axford and Dillard in AAA. And who knows, maybe Hoffman will want to come back for one more year. Maybe another lefty for the pen, but almost all of the tough hitters in the division are righties (Pujols, Lee, Ramirez, Holliday, Ludwick, Lee, Pence, Soriano).

 

The biggest thing that will impact the roster is whether or not they will be able to trade Hardy for a starter. If not, then they will probably have to let Cameron go and use his salary to sign a free agent to hold them over until 2011 when the prospects start to arrive.

[nate82]

Kelvim Escobar is probably the best player the Brewers could gamble on but I expect he will be the one the Angels resign and not Lackey. I would really love to have Escobar be the #2 behind Gallardo in the rotation. Hopefully Cameron can be brought back and the bullpen is the least of the Brewers worries. The bullpen once Hoffman was healthy was rather good for awhile until they got overworked which happens to nearly every single team. I believe the Brewers had the best bullpen in the league for awhile earlier in the year. Villanueva is still a good bullpen pitcher and I have faith that he will be back to what he was in 2007 and 2008.

 

The Brewers really need to settle the Hardy and Escobar issue. I don't see the Brewers hanging onto Hardy not with Escobar up right now and burning through service time. Escobar is up for good and Hardy is done in Milwaukee. I believe Hart will be back for next year and Hardy and McGehee might be the ones who get traded. If McGehee finishes the year strong he maybe the best player to trade for some pitching over Hart and Hardy.

 

Catcher will be filled by either Rivera and Lucroy/Salome I'm going to go with a Rivera and Lucroy backstop with Salome staying in AAA. If Cameron isn't brought back maybe Gerut will be in CF next year with a platoon partner.

 

If the Brewers could get Escobar on a two year deal with an option for a third year I would love it. The Brewers would probably have to overpay in dollars like they did for Gagne to get Escobar on a short contract but Escobar is coming off a second straight year that he has been injured so he can't really be looking for a long term contract this offseason.

[logan82]

This time spent in the majors by Escobar right now is practically meaningless. The only thing that might matter is if they want to gain another year of Escobar. In that case they would have to keep him in the minors almost half a season next year. If Hardy is left in the minors long enough to gain an extra year of service time I think it is 50/50 who will be our SS next year. Whoever brings back the biggest return will be traded.

[FVBrewerFan]

This is not in blue, honest question. Is Patterson an option in CF next year? He seems to be destroying AAA pitching.

[patrickgpe]

The pen isn't a huge question mark - it was their strength this year until the wear of the lack of quality starting pitching since mid-June taxed them. Coffey, DiFelice, Stetter, Weathers, McClung was good until he was forced into the rotation, Smith was just fine, and maybe Vargas has found his niche in the bullpen and could be a decent long man.

 

what i meant by that is that the brewers don't know who their closer is going to be. I think the setup and middle relief has been fine this year. The 7-9th innings has not been the issue this year. If they move Coffey to the closers role that means they need someone else who can shut down the door in the 7th or 8th.

[Never Outhustled]

Then when you go to the rotation i think yo is a good 1, bush a 3, soup a 4, and parra a 5. They really need a #2 which is not easy to get I know.

Yo isn't a good 1 yet, he isn't even a 1 yet. Potentially, I think he is a 1 though. Bush is in no way a #3. A 3 to me means the pitcher is league average, which is about a 4.30 ERA. Bush has an ERA over 5 for the 2nd time in 3 years. Bush put up a league average ERA last year, but was also sent to AAA for poor early season performance. He's a #5. Suppan is below replacement level for the 2nd year in a row. He's a #7. Parra is talented, but has been horrible, and he didn't pitch up to his potential in the minors either. I'm losing faith in him as a starter, though he would make an exciting reliever.

 

This team has a very strong offense, but needs multiple starting pitchers.

[nate82]

Yo isn't a good 1 yet, he isn't even a 1 yet. Potentially, I think he is a 1 though. Bush is in no way a #3. A 3 to me means the pitcher is league average, which is about a 4.30 ERA. Bush has an ERA over 5 for the 2nd time in 3 years. Bush put up a league average ERA last year, but was also sent to AAA for poor early season performance. He's a #5.

I'm sorry but before Bush got injured he was just as you were describing. If you take out his month of June when Bush got injured he was pitching rather good.

 

By Day/Month	ERA	W	L	SV	SVO	G	GS	CG	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	SO	AVG
April	4.50	1	0	0	0	5	4	0	26.0	24	14	13	3	9	18	.253
May	4.30	2	1	0	0	6	6	0	37.2	34	19	18	10	9	27	.248

It wasn't until Bush's second start after he was injured in Florida where he was showing signs that he was really hurt. You take out the Detroit and Cleveland games and his ERA is well below 5.

[TheCrew07]

I think point you're missing Nate is that Bush is a #3 best case, his actual physical talent puts him in 4/5 range. I've posted before I absolutely love his tenacity on the mound, but he's just not very talented when compared to his peers. When I bag on the Overbay trade, I mean Bushy no disrespect, he's gotten the most of out of his talent. It's just that particular deal appears to be quanity over quality in hindsight. I think Bush can be an effective #3, but I think you can point to a couple of months as proof of what he is or isn't. Prior to being sent down in 2008 he wasn't pitching well, he was pretty decent from his recall last season until getting hit by the line drive this year. That's about a year's worth of starts. I'm not ready to make proclamation either way on any players in the middle ground talent wise based on just a year's worth of data.

 

If he threw 95 with 3 plus pitches I'd be all over his bandwagon after a good season, but with average stuff I'm in wait and see mode. His minor league rehab starts this time around were at least encouraging.

 

Really, it's not about Bush being a solid #3, Looper a #4, Suppan a #5, or Parra being a #5, it's about upgrading the talent in the rotation, why wouldn't we upgrade the talent if the opportunity presents itself? I'm looking to get to a place where a Bush type is our 5th best starter not our second best or our third best. It's sort of the same reason people calling Cappy the "Ace" of the Brewer's staff drove me nuts. Being the 2nd best pitcher on an average to below average staff doesn't mean that he's a #1 or #2, he did manage to have an ERA around 4 for 2 years while pitching over 200 innings in both but regressed again in that 4th year. I wonder if he would have been able to keep it going with out the injury, unfortunately we'll never know, he's another pitcher that Melvin acquired who got better results than his stuff.

 

From the outside looking in it appears that DM is hung up a little bit too much on pitchability.

[Never Outhustled]

I'm sorry but before Bush got injured he was just as you were describing. If you take out his month of June when Bush got injured he was pitching rather good.

How is a below league average ERA good? Also, lots of pitchers batttle injury during the season, but theyjust pitch better the rest of the year to make up for it.