Rule 5 - 40 man; Latest: OF Cain, RHP Rivas Protected

[cheezscott]

Just wondering with Rule 5 down the road, who everyone feels need to add to the 40 and who will be left exposed...thanks

[Mass Haas]

We'll be putting together our annual thread of listing which players are free to leave the organziation after this season if not added to the 40-man (Adam Heether, all the "Erick Almonte-veteran types", etc.), and then we'll take a stab at who is eligible for Rule 5 as well, fairly soon.

 

That info should help spur discussion. I know we have some folks out there who really try to track this type of info even in advance of us, so if someone wishes to submit their current analysis in that regard within this thread, feel free.

[mls4]

Can we at least finish the season before starting off-season topics? I know to some extent the season is over, and I like guessing ahead as much as anyone, but this is 3 months in advance.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I'm sure I'm missing a few, but here is my list (P50 #'s in parenthesis). The Brewers have probably a dozen players on the 40 man that could be released/DFA'd in the offseason to make room for these prospects. So I don't think that will be a real issue. It will be interesting to see who will go and who will be added. The Brewers always surprise me every year. Last year's surprise add was Mark Rogers and that sure worked out for them. Maybe Mike Jones or Adam Heether will be this year's surprise.

 

Rule 5 Draft Eligible Players

Includes all players signed/drafted before 2006 and 2006 draftees who signed at age 19 or older.

 

Who I think we need to add (5):

 

Zack Braddock (#7) - AA

Taylor Green (#8) - AA

Lorenzo Cain (#9) - AA

Chris Cody (#19) - AAA

Josh Butler (#23) - AA

 

Top remaining unprotected players:

 

Amaury Rivas (#33) - A+

Brendan Katin (#43) - AAA

Mike Jones - AA

Adam Heether - AAA

Mike McClendon - AA

Nick Green - AA

 

 

The rest:

 

AAA: Joe Koshansky, Sam Narron

AA: Chuck Caufield, Robert Hinton, Josh Wahpepah, Dave Welch, Bo Wright

A+: Chris Errecart, Mike Ramlow

A-:Brock Kjeldgaard

[YoungGeezy]

I'm sure I'm missing a few, but here is my list (P50 #'s in parenthesis). The Brewers have probably a dozen players on the 40 man that could be released/DFA'd in the offseason to make room for these prospects. So I don't think that will be a real issue. It will be interesting to see who will go and who will be added. The Brewers always surprise me every year. Last year's surprise add was Mark Rogers and that sure worked out for them. Maybe Mike Jones or Adam Heether will be this year's surprise.

I'd agree with ours except I think Jones needs to be. He still has good upside and could help us out. If it came down to him and Cody I'd probably take Jones.

[Never Outhustled]

Amaury Rivas is a definate. He's a better pitcher than Jones right now, just as he was when they were both in BC earlier this year.

I think John Axford could also get a spot. I'll pass on Chris Cody, the upside just isn't there. I don't see anyone selecting a guy who throws 84 in the rule 5.

[biedergb]

I agree that Jones would have to be in the group, as he was a highly touted prospect, now back from injuries, and God-forbid-hopefully healthy. Plus he was just promoted to AAA and would be a likely candidate to be selected in the Rule V draft. A guy like Rivas might be a better prospect, but is only at high-A, and may not be on a team's radar screen to keep on their roster. Butler may make the list. But since Cody appears to have been passed over as a call-up so far, he may not rank high in the organization's mind, and may be more expendable.

The key will be how many players are removed from the 40 man roster. Don't the 60-day DL guys not count toward the 40-man list during the season, but they do count in the offseason, right?

[DHonks]

I'd expect Rivas and Jones to be added, but not Cody. Heether I could go either way on, as I am currently content with Weeks, McGehee, Hardy, Escobar, Lopez, Counsell, Iribarren, Gamel, etc for the 2b/3b/ss spots. I'd like to keep him, just not sure he's worth a 40-man spot given our depth.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I had Rivas and Jones on the bubble. It is very unlikely teams will try to stash a high A player on their roster for a year. It has been done before but rarely. That is why the Brewers may try to sneak him through. Jones certainly could be added. I won't complain if they do.

 

I do not believe Axford needs to be protected. This is only his third professional season, but it depends on when he signed his first contract. The rules for this are overly complex so I won't attempt to guess. I agree though that if he is eligible for the draft, the Brewers need to protect him. I'd take him over a Chris Smith/Chase Wright any day.

[DHonks]

closetbrewerfan, I believe Axford was released by another organization. Therefore he is elligible for free agency or the Rule V draft even if he re-signed

[Never Outhustled]

Heether I could go either way on, as I am currently content with Weeks, McGehee, Hardy, Escobar, Lopez, Counsell, Iribarren, Gamel, etc for the 2b/3b/ss spots.

I think I would drop Iribarren to make room for Heether. Heether is a better hitter and a more versatile defender.

[TheCrew07]

If we failed to protect pitching... projectable pitching like Rivas, I might have to give up my Brewer fan card because the organization is going in a direction that I couldn't possibly and wouldn't want to understand.

[dadofandrew]

Hernan hits LH and can play CF, and is younger than Heether. No way I protect Adam instead of Hernan. The problem is, I think HI is out of options, so unless he's on the 25 man next year, he's gone.

[Mass Haas]

Following is a list of players who are free to leave the organization in mid-October when minor league free agency begins. These players and the Brewers could agree to sign an additional one-year minor league deal to extend the relationship. Or the Brewers could add the player to the 40-man roster, thus extending the "ownership" of the player.

A player who has exhausted all seven years of his original minor league affiliation to the organization that signed him is eligible. Here are the Brewers farmhands who have been with the organization for their full commitment (or even longer in the cases of Jones and Lluberes). We've been following these guys their whole careers.

C Carlos Corporan
INF Adam Heether
RHP Mike Jones
OF Freddy Parejo
LHP Rafael Lluberes

Once a player's original affiliated contract is terminated, minor league players all assume one-year deals going forward with any organization that signs them. Often, especially with younger players below AAA who perform well after literally being picked up from the scrap heap, the organization and the player will both seek to renew the contract for another season fairly quickly -- RHP's Jim Henderson and Brandon Kintzler would seem to fall into that category this year. Here are the players who aren't on their original Brewers affiliated contract who would otherwise be free to walk in mid-October:

IF Erick Almonte
C Patrick Arlis
OF Chris Duffy
RHP Matt Ginter
LHP Lindsay Gulin
RHP Ryan Houston
OF Jon Knott
LHP Sam Narron
IF Johnny Raburn
OF Tike Redman
OF Adam Stern
LHP Chase Wright
OF Drwe Anderson
IF Michael Garciaparra
RHP Jim Henderson
RHP Brandon Kintzler
RHP Wes Littleton
IF Kevin Melillo
RHP Juan Sandoval
RHP Buddy Flores
C Martin Maldonado
C Sean McCraw
LHP Chris Capuano
RHP Ryan DeLaughter

If you believe a player is listed in error or have an addition, let us know. We believe we're close, but don't claim to be 100% accurate.

[Mass Haas]

Remember --
Players who signed when 18 or younger are eligible for the draft after five years.
Players who signed when 19 or older are eligible after four years.

This is why LHP Zach Braddock, for instance, does not need to be added this fall.

So in terms of 40-man roster consideration, these are the players not eligible for free agency, but who would be Rule 5 eligible if not placed on the 40-man roster. If any of the players in the prior post resign a minor league deal with the Brewers, add them to the list below:

Thanks to poster Minigoon for tracking all this for us --

RHP Chris Cody
RHP Robert Hinton
RHP David Johnson
OF Brendan Katin
1B Joe Koshansky (it appears the Brewers own his rights for one more season -- his origianl affiliated contract was never terminated, but re-assigned through waiver claims)
RHP Josh Butler
OF Lorenzo Cain
OF Chuckie Caufield
IF Taylor Green
C/1B J.R. Hopf
2B Shane Justis
RHP Mike McClendon
SS Yohannis Perez
RHP Josh Wahpepah
LHP David Welch
LHP Brae Wright
C Anderson De La Rosa
1B Chris Errecart
LHP Mike Ramlow
RHP Amaury Rivas
UT Juan Sanchez
1B Brock Kjeldgaard
LHP Jose Romero
RHP Rolando Pascual

So Lorenzo Cain, Taylor Green, Josh Butler, and Amaury Rivas appear to be locks. Close but probably no cigar on Chris Cody.

Considering how many players are likely to be coming off the current 42-man roster (42 because of 60-day DL stints), having to add only four players should give the Brewers sufficient flexibility to maneuver without prematurely dropping a fringe 40-man roster player like Alex Periard or Omar Aguilar.

[pogokat]

i dunno that green and cain are locks...those guys would probably kill a team if they had to be carried all season...if i was the brewers, i'd take that chance and postpone running out of option years another year...cain especially looks like he might be up and down between the majors and aaa for a few season,s so postponing those options might be a good call

[PrimeTime955]

i dunno that green and cain are locks...those guys would probably kill a team if they had to be carried all season...if i was the brewers, i'd take that chance and postpone running out of option years another year...cain especially looks like he might be up and down between the majors and aaa for a few season,s so postponing those options might be a good call

A team could easily find a place for Lorenzo Cain as a 5th outfielder/pinch runner next season. He is a LOCK to be protected.

[jackalope02ca]

I'm not suggesting neither will be protected but neither Green nor Cain are locks. I seriously doubt anyone would carry Green for a year and I doubt any team would want to carry Cain for a year either even as a 5th outfielder. I don't think he is even close to being MLB ready. I'm much more happy if the Brewers choose to protect pitchers instead.

[PrimeTime955]

I'm not suggesting neither will be protected but neither Green nor Cain are locks. I seriously doubt anyone would carry Green for a year and I doubt any team would want to carry Cain for a year either even as a 5th outfielder. I don't think he is even close to being MLB ready. I'm much more happy if the Brewers choose to protect pitchers instead.

I guess you must have forgotten when we carried Enrique Cruz.

[endaround]

And that ended up being a disaster. Cruz didn't play and the Brewers likely killed any chance of a career by keeping him from playing for a full year. Cain would be going 2 season without playing fulltime, what value would te remaining player have after his season in MLB?

[Minigoon]

My opinion is that Lo Cain, Green, and Rivas get protected. Melvin likes to leave a spot or 2 open for waiver claims and there is always the chance of a Rule V pick again. Interesting decisions next year as Jeffress, Braddock, Casey Baron, Jon Lucroy, Evan Anundsen, Brent Brewer, Eric Farris, and Wily Peralta (I'm about 95% sure Peralta is up next year) are eligible and would need protection.

[agent39]

It's not Greens year.

 

[Mass Haas]

It's not Green's year.

Thanks for the update. Green was a draft-and-follow (25th round, 2005), and must have signed prior to his 19th birthday which would have been November 2nd, 2005. He debuted with Helena in 2006 (not all that impressively) before exploding into our consciousness at West Virginia in '07.

[Minigoon]

It's not Green's year.

Thanks for the update. Green was a draft-and-follow (25th round, 2005), and must have signed prior to his 19th birthday which would have been November 2nd, 2005. He debuted with Helena in 2006 (not all that impressively) before exploding into our consciousness at West Virginia in '07.

Josh caught my mistake. Green was 19 when he signed, but according to the rules, it's how old he was on the June 5th immediately preceeding his signing. Green signed prior to 6/5/06 so it goes back to his age on 6/5/05, at which time he was still 18. Therefore 5 drafts starting with 2006.

[Mass Haas]

The following players, unless they will re-sign with the Brewers, are now officially minor league free agents.

 

Milwaukee (14)

Pitchers: LHP Chris Capuano, RHP Ruben Flores, Matt Ginter, LHP Lindsay Gulin, RHP Ryan Houston, RHP Wes Littleton, LHP Sam Narron, LHP Chase Wright

Catchers: Carlos Corporan

Infielders: Michael Garciaparra, Kevin Melillo

Outfielders: Drew Anderson, Jon Knott, Freddy Parejo

 

**************************************************************************

 

How did this compare to the list we posted back on September 13th?

 

A player who has exhausted all seven years of his original minor league affiliation to the organization that signed him is eligible. Here are the Brewers farmhands who have been with the organization for their full commitment (or even longer in the cases of Jones and Lluberes). We've been following these guys their whole careers.

 

C Carlos Corporan

INF Adam Heether -- now on 40-man

RHP Mike Jones -- re-signed

OF Freddy Parejo

LHP Rafael Lluberes (re-signed again?)

Once a player's original affiliated contract is terminated, minor league players all assume one-year deals going forward with any organization that signs them. Often, especially with younger players below AAA who perform well after literally being picked up from the scrap heap, the organization and the player will both seek to renew the contract for another season fairly quickly -- RHP's Jim Henderson and Brandon Kintzler would seem to fall into that category this year. Here are the players who aren't on their original Brewers affiliated contract who would otherwise be free to walk in mid-October:

 

IF Erick Almonte -- re-signed

C Patrick Arlis -- re-signed

OF Chris Duffy -- previously granted free agncy

RHP Matt Ginter

LHP Lindsay Gulin

RHP Ryan Houston

OF Jon Knott

LHP Sam Narron

IF Johnny Raburn -- re-signed

OF Tike Redman -- signed for 2010

OF Adam Stern -- re-signed

LHP Chase Wright

OF Drew Anderson

IF Michael Garciaparra

RHP Jim Henderson -- re-signed

RHP Brandon Kintzler -- either re-signed or wasn't eligible

RHP Wes Littleton

IF Kevin Melillo

RHP Juan Sandoval -- re-signed

RHP Buddy Flores

C Martin Maldonado -- either re-signed or wasn't eligible

C Sean McCraw -- either re-signed or wasn't eligible

LHP Chris Capuano

RHP Ryan DeLaughter -- either re-signed or wasn't eligible