What if the offseason went differently?

[Invader3K]

Even when we were supposedly picking up a good part of Cameron's contract?

I think a lot of people forgot that part. After the Yankees' spending binge this off-season, allocating over $400 million on three players, Cashman asking Melvin to pick up part of a 1 year, $10 million contract was ludicrous. Melvin was probably right to turn the deal down, just based on the principle of it.

[PeaveyFury]

A lot of people are also forgetting that it was the Yankees that were dragging their feet on making the deal, not the Brewers. It's not simply a case of Melvin not pulling the trigger.

[joepepsi]

Even when we were supposedly picking up a good part of Cameron's contract?

I think a lot of people forgot that part. After the Yankees' spending binge this off-season, allocating over $400 million on three players, Cashman asking Melvin to pick up part of a 1 year, $10 million contract was ludicrous. Melvin was probably right to turn the deal down, just based on the principle of it.

Especially considering they outbid the Brewers for CC just because they could.

[Ennder]

I remember catching some flak around here for saying that I though Edwin Jackson would have been a good pickup, because he significantly outperformed his peripherals last year

 

To be fair he isn't anywhere near as good as he has pitched this year either though. That is not an ace skillset at all and I'd be much more surprised by a sub 3.50 ERA next year than by a 4+ ERA.

[Postseason2006]

Most of the people posting in this thread are completely posting from a hindsight is 20/20 level and not really being honest with themselves.

I was all for it last year anyhow. No hindsight here.

[tigerbrew]

Especially considering they outbid the Brewers for CC just because they could.

Sadly the Brewers didn't exactly put up much of a fight for CC when they had the chance. They could've the raise the price further on the Yanks and that would be sweet.

 

If Brewers had signed CC, they may have not pick up Cameron's 09 option instead to save money.

 

[nate82]

Sadly the Brewers didn't exactly put up much of a fight for CC when they had the chance. They could've the raise the price further on the Yanks and that would be sweet.

 

If Brewers had signed CC, they may have not pick up Cameron's 09 option instead to save money.

 

And if the Brewers wouldn't have picked up Cameron's 09 option Gwynn would have been playing CF. That is not all that comforting having Kendall and Gwynn in the lineup together.

[tigerbrew]

Frankly, I can live with Gwynn in CF if it meant having CC. But I think DM would've re-sign Branyan to play 3B and move Hall to CF.

[logan82]

tigerbrew wrote:

If Brewers had signed CC, they may have not pick up Cameron's 09 option instead to save money.

We had to make the decision on Cameron within a couple weeks of the end of the season I believe. We had to decide on Cameron's contract long before CC could even negotiate with teams other than the Brewers.

[MNBrew]

Great topic & very well thought out, nate82!

 

- Signing CC would've been huge but not enough to overcome the abominations & gross underperforming comprising our '09 season (rotation!).

- I'd still have preferred Cabrera over Cameron, mainly for the additional payroll flexibility (even with Igawa &/or offsetting cash factored in, had Melvin let Cashman totally screw the Brewers over in that deal).

- Getting Hoffman was a coup and I hope he's our closer in 2010, too.

- After the top couple studs, most of the best FA pitchers in a limited pool were of the uber-veteran types (Smoltz, Moyer, Johnson) or injury questions (Sheets, Penny, etc.). Melvin tried for pretty much any of them that made sense. He didn't land any. But at least he didn't overpay for what he did get (Looper).

 

Incidentally, re-signing Coffey was smart. So was NOT re-signing Shouse. The McGehee waiver claim was classic, brilliant DM nugget-mining.

 

As painful & futile as this year is turning out (thanks a lot, starting pitchers!), in the long run I think it still may help to have gone through it. To truly be built to be an annual playoff contender, it's going to take a better (mainly pitching-wise) and different roster to get there. Some position player decisions obviously need to be made. However, it's mainly just the pitching that needs a lot of help -- and even then, it's primarily the rotation.

[tigerbrew]

We had to make the decision on Cameron within a couple weeks of the end of the season I believe. We had to decide on Cameron's contract long before CC could even negotiate with teams other than the Brewers.

I'm not sure about this so I went to research the archives of Brewers.com and JSO. Apparently DM made his $100M offer to CC on Nov 1, 2008, two days before exercising Cameron's option on Nov 3, 2008. Haudricourt's blog entry on Nov 3 indicates that DM wants to have both Cameron and CC in the team, and one of the benefits given for picking up Cameron's option is it "might help the Brewers in their quest to keep the big lefty".

 

Reading through the archives, keeping both CC and Cameron were in the Brewers plans for 09 afterall. I guess when DM and MA said that CC was a special case, they were willing to increase payroll to accomodate him.

[PeaveyFury]

Reading through the archives, keeping both CC and Cameron were in the Brewers plans for 09 afterall

 

It was widely speculated that since Cam and CC were good friends, that the Brewers were using that as extra leverage to try to get CC to stay here. I believe the Cam to the Yankees talk surfaced very quickly, almost right after they picked up his option (which as others mentioned, had to be a decision made quickly).

[Invader3K]

The frustrating thing was that CC was the only really good starting pitcher the Brewers seemed to have any chance to sign, however remotely small those chances may have been. Derek Lowe was out there, but never rumored as any real possibility...and after that the talent level really went downhill.

 

Looking to kind of be that way this coming off-season. A team like the Brewers just can't rely on signing free agent starting pitchers.

[Ennder]

Only the largest market teams can build a rotation by signing free agents and you generally have to overpay them when you do sign them. It takes trading one of your best players to get any young pitching, Hardy this past offseason was probably our only real shot for it. I think we are just going to be kind of stuck until they trade Fielder or our next wave of young arms becomes major league ready. If Parra can somehow figure out his issues we might be passable next year but I just don't expect to field a good rotation in 2010 and I don't think Melvin really can do much about it.

[joepepsi]

Well they could trade Braun. He is probably the most valuable trading chip the Brewers have.

[Invader3K]

Well they could Braun. He is probably the most valuable trading chip the Brewers have.

He's too valuable to trade at this point. I don't believe we'd get enough in return to justify trading him right now. He's too good, under control for 6 more years, and relatively cheap.

 

It would also be the death of the team from a fanbase point.

[Hate those Rodents]

We need to coax Cinci to give us Harang in a Hall plus swap. Then we have a #3 starter imho. Bush and Parra can be the 4/5. All you need to do (yeah, it's real easy) is hit on your JJ plus trade in the off-season. Hopefully Melvin can get the right young/unproven arm that can be a solid 2/3.

 

A rotation of Gallardo/Bucholtz/Harang/Parra/Bush can be good enough to get us into the playoffs provided we hit at a good level and the bullpen is as it was before we had no starting pitching.

[sheethead]

Trading Braun would be organizational suicide.

[joepepsi]

Well they could Braun. He is probably the most valuable trading chip the Brewers have.

He's too valuable to trade at this point. I don't believe we'd get enough in return to justify trading him right now. He's too good, under control for 6 more years, and relatively cheap. It would also be the death of the team from a fanbase point.

Look I don't want to trade him, but the fact he's under control for 6 years makes him very valuable to other teams. Consider Josh Hamilton brought Herrera and Volquez, imagine what Braun could bring. Similar pitchers to those two plus a LaPorta type to play LF, plus a throw in or two?

 

If you want to fix the pitching but quick......

[MNBrew]

We need to coax Cinci to give us Harang in a Hall plus swap. Then we have a #3 starter imho. Bush and Parra can be the 4/5. All you need to do (yeah, it's real easy) is hit on your JJ plus trade in the off-season. Hopefully Melvin can get the right young/unproven arm that can be a solid 2/3.

 

A rotation of Gallardo/Bucholtz/Harang/Parra/Bush can be good enough to get us into the playoffs provided we hit at a good level and the bullpen is as it was before we had no starting pitching.

I like Hart, but it'd be worth dangling him to a team like TB who has good SP depth and who seems to need more RF production. It would create a hole in RF, but there are multiple routes to take to fill that.

 

Hardy-plus to Boston or Seattle -- teams w/ SS needs and good pitching talent/depth -- would seem to be worth exploring, too.

[Invader3K]

I think people need to forget about Buchholz...Boston probably sees him as a long term part of their rotation at this point.

[crewcrazy]

I think people need to forget about Buchholz...Boston probably sees him as a long term part of their rotation at this point.

I tend to agree with this. It would be nice, but it probably won't happen. A lot of people were saying that the Red Sox were very close to adding both Victor Martinez and Cliff Lee in a package deal at the deadline, but the Indians dealt Lee to Philly when Boston wouldn't give up Buchholz in that trade. If the Red Sox weren't going to give up Buchholz in a V-Mart/Lee package deal, I don't see many (if any) scenarios in which they'd trade him to Milwaukee.

[Hate those Rodents]

If the Red Sox weren't going to give up Buchholz in a V-Mart/Lee package deal, I don't see many (if any) scenarios in which they'd trade him to Milwaukee.

Well, for King Felix, they were willing to give up the M's choice of any FIVE of the following players....Clay Buchholz, Daniel Bard, Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone, Michael Bowden, Felix Doubront, Josh Reddick, and Yamaico Navarro. So I am not certain that including one in the V-mart trade or in a Lee trade had it been made would have been a deal breaker. Would JJ alone get us Clay, maybe not. But I don't see where he is untouchable by any means.