Consider trading Gamel?

[paul253]

I know this won't be a popular idea amongst most of us, but I really think the Brewers need to consider trading Mat Gamel for pitching this off season. The time is right. Milwaukee found a possible gem in Casey McGehee and he can play 3rd base full time. If he doesn't work out, Taylor Green isn't too far behind. If for whatever reason Gamel doesn't meet his potential, we're going to miss out on a possible huge return. This team is still good enough to win, but they need some pieces, mainly a #1 or #2 pitcher and a more consistent offense. McGehee can help with the offensive consistency, and Gamel can help bring in a pitcher. I don't think Hart and/or Hardy has enough value to bring in anyone significant. The Giants need offense and have pitching. I've read Sandoval can slide over to first base, making room for Gamel. Perhaps theres a way we could bring a Matt Cain over here next season. I haven't really thought out who we could get in return, but it would have to be someone with more than a year left on their contract. Hart can stay another year as we really have no replacement for him, and perhaps Macha or a new manager will let him run more. Hardy can also be flipped for pitching if need be or even included in the SF deal to bring back a pitching prospect as well. Thoughts?

[Weirdos19]

I'm not against this, depending on what we would get back.

 

Teams that could use Gamel:

 

Toronto- halladay

Baltimore- a ton of young pitching

White Sox- danks or floyd

Twins- Blackburn, Slowey, or Liriano

Indians

Oakland

Seattle

Phillies- a stocked minor league staff to look at

Astros

San Fran- Sanchez or Cain???

LA- tons of relief pitching

Colorado

 

There is quite a bit of young pitching that could be available for Gamel. Add JJ and you can possibly get a front end starter.

[nate82]

If you are trading Gamel it would be a Young for Garza type of a deal not someone like Halladay. One year of Halladay wouldn't be enough for losing Gamel. I would rather go after a young starting pitcher who hasn't really been in the majors yet. So no to Danks, Floyd, Halladay, Sanchez, Cain, or Floyd they all have way too much service time to consider trading Gamel for them.

[paul253]

Matt Cain has one more year plus a club option for 2011 at a very reasonable price. Perhaps if we got him we could extend him through 2013 or something.

[Never Outhustled]

Milwaukee found a possible gem in Casey McGehee and he can play 3rd base full time.

If McGehee's knee surgery goes smoothly, he'd be the one it would make the most sense to deal. It might be a major sell high situation. Gamel is the other middle of the order hitter we'll need after Fielder is gone. We have no other big time bats in the system.

[paul253]

That's true, but i think the immediate need, which is also a long term need, is starting pitching. I just can't imagine McGehee bringing back anything more than a #4 or #5 pitcher, which we don't need. Trading Gamel could very easily bring in the type of pitcher this team really needs, and we have a young cheap hitter who plays better defense and is still capable of 20 home runs to replace him. Finding power in the free agent market is also easier than finding starting pitching. I don't like the idea of trading Gamel, but I really think its something that needs to be considered.

[nate82]

I would only trade Gamel for someone like an Andrew Miller and maybe a big maybe here someone like Josh Johnson. The Marlins are going to be trading Dan Uggla away this off season more than likely and are going to need a 3B or a 2B.

[nate82]

I wonder if a Mat Gamel for Madison Bumgarner would work for both sides. This is somewhat like a Garza for Young trade. Gamel batting either ahead or behind Sandoval would be a good #3 and #4 punch for a long time.

[barbados73]

I think you would have to add something along with Gamel to get Baumgarner. This is the type of trade that I personally would like the Brewers to do. Get a young pitcher that they would have under control for a while.

[paul253]

I would LOVE to get Bumgarner, but I don't think Gamel would get him. I think you'd probably have to throw in either another prospect or make it about more than those two. Say Gamel and Hardy for Bumgarner and J. Sanchez.

[nate82]

I would LOVE to get Bumgarner, but I don't think Gamel would get him. I think you'd probably have to throw in either another prospect or make it about more than those two. Say Gamel and Hardy for Bumgarner and J. Sanchez.

If Gamel can't get Bumgarner on his own how is Hardy and Gamel going to get Bumgarner and Sanchez?

 

If Gamel was being talked about getting Halladay along with Escobar and others then I think Gamel for Bumgarner would be a perfect swap. Bumgarner is a prospect and Gamel is a prospect with some MLB experience. For the Brewers to move Gamel it would have to be for someone like Bumgarner and for the Giants to move Bumgarner its going to have to be someone like Gamel.

 

If anything the Brewers could just have Hart thrown in with Gamel if that would be needed. Gamel for Bumgarner would be just about the same in talent level as the Rays and Twins trade and it helps both teams out. The Giants can afford trading one of their pitchers for a premium bat since the Giants really don't have that many in their system that are MLB ready. Gamel fills a void that the Giants need and Bumgarner fills a void that the Brewers need since this is almost a perfect trade I doubt it would ever happen.

[paul253]

I don't think the Giants would trade Bumgarner for Gamel. Bumgarner is a top 10 prospect overall, whereas Gamel is not. While its true the Giants need offense, they aren't going to give away a top 10 prospect. If we could get him for Gamel and Hart, though, I'd be all for it. We'd need a right fielder, but maybe Jermaine Dye would be a good fit. I would drool over the oppurtunity to get Madison Bumgarner.

[nate82]

I don't think the Giants would trade Bumgarner for Gamel. Bumgarner is a top 10 prospect overall, whereas Gamel is not. While its true the Giants need offense, they aren't going to give away a top 10 prospect. If we could get him for Gamel and Hart, though, I'd be all for it. We'd need a right fielder, but maybe Jermaine Dye would be a good fit. I would drool over the oppurtunity to get Madison Bumgarner.

Top 10 prospect by a magazine, website, or media outlet doesn't hold much water in a trade. Look at the talent first and what they have done in the minors and the majors first before looking at some top 10 list.

 

Talent wise Gamel is a top 25 prospect. Gamel is major league ready and the Twins and Rays trade really is the scale you should be going by. Bumgarner is about what Garza was to the Twins a top 10 prospect in the game being blocked by a lot of pitchers in front of him. Gamel is actually nothing like Young though talent wise and psychologically wise. Gamel has more promise than Young did it is not every day that a two players match up perfectly for both teams.

 

Gamel has a lot of value and I believe you are devaluing him as a prospect. You have to remember here also that Bumgarner is in AA so he is at least another year away from being in the majors and another year after that before he will be an effective MLB pitcher (limited innings and other nuances that come with young pitchers.). While Gamel will help the Giants win next year that has a lot of value for the Giants. Not only will Gamel help them win next year it will also cost them very little in payroll. Which means they can bring back Molina if they choose for another season or two. While Bumgarner is valuable to the Giants in a pitching sense Gamel would be worth 10 times more to them than Bumgarner will be to them.

 

It is not everyday that you can get a one for one trade where both teams benefit from the trade. The Brewers wouldn't move Gamel for anyone less than Bumgarner, Cain and Sanchez have to much service time already for a Gamel for one of those two. Hardy for either of those yes but not Gamel you just can't throw away years of service time of Gamel for a year or two of Cain or Sanchez. Especially Cain who has been abused lately just look at the amount of innings pitched he has accrued over the past couple of years. It will frighten you if you look it up. He is definitely not worth a Gamel (to the Brewers) like player maybe for someone like the Yankees or the Red Sox it would be worthwhile.

 

Just because a player is a top 10 prospect overall and another is in the top 25 that doesn't mean both can't be traded for each other you have to look at where each player is at and look at both teams and see if there is a fit. This would fit perfectly for both the Brewers and the Giants. I would rather have a more MLB ready pitcher but Bumgarner is one of the few prospects I would trade Gamel for.

[paul253]

Well i certainly don't want to make it sound like I am arguing with you. Mat Gamel is certainly a very very good prospect. I just see Bumgarner's numbers, added to the fact that he JUST turned 20 and is putting up a 2.11 era in AA. He'll probably be able to begin next year in AAA, so it's not like he's all that far behind Gamel. In general, pitching is a lot harder and more expensive to acquire, so I assume pitching is valued a little more than hitting. Plus, despite what we saw in Milwaukee, there are still questions about Gamel's defense and he may yet have to move.

 

In general, though, if we could get Bumgarner for Gamel, I would think most of here would take it. This is exactly the type of move I would hope Melvin looks for in the offseason. Though he may not help immediately, Bumgarner would be a huge addition to this team.

[TooLiveBrew]

Consider trading Gamel?

 

Absolutely not. This kid is a special hitter, and has the athletic ability to be a next-level defender at 3B. We have other parts to sell for pitching, and definitely need Gamel to be the LH complement to Braun for years to come.

[CWSOmaha]

I totally agree, there are others to trade and because he hits LH and is athletic. We can trade some of our RH hitting players instead.

[paul253]

None of our other parts will bring us what we need. JJ Hardy cannot even hold a roster spot. Do you really think he is going to bring a #2 starter? Who else do we have? Corey Hart, and his career .325 obp?

[bklynbrewcrew]

Gamel should be the one untouchable minor leaguer. We need his lefthanded bat especially when Prince is gone. If the Brewers were smart they would trade Escobar before teams realize he cant hit.

[Invader3K]

Gamel should be the one untouchable minor leaguer. We need his lefthanded bat especially when Prince is gone. If the Brewers were smart they would trade Escobar before teams realize he cant hit.

Seems like he was hitting OK in AAA.

 

You really seem to rag on Escobar a lot...I don't think Escobar is as bad as you say, just like I don't think Gamel is going to be as spectacular as some say. I think they will both be fairly average players, personally.

[twobrewers]

I would only trade Gamel for someone like an Andrew Miller

Gamel might be able to net a 6-pack of Andrew Millers.

 

Andrew Miller has burned through a lot of service time being below average.

[nate82]

Gamel might be able to net a 6-pack of Andrew Millers.

 

Andrew Miller has burned through a lot of service time being below average.

Keyword is like Andrew Miller.

 

Per Cot's on Andrew Miller's service time

Andrew Miller lhp

4 years/$5.4M (2006-09)

• 4 years/$5.4M (2006-09)

• • [li]
  signed Major League contract with Detroit 8/06
• $3.55M signing bonus
• on Major League roster: 08:$1.325M, 09:$1.575M
• escalators may bring total package to $7.5M, depending on when Miller makes 25-man roster
  
• contract guarantees September call-up in 2006
• Miller may opt out of contract early & go to arbitration
• acquired by Florida in trade from Detroit 12/4/07
  

[/li]

drafted 2006 (1-6) drafted 2003 (3-68) by Tampa Bay (did not sign)

agents: Darek Braunecker, Jim Lindell, Mark Rodgers

ML service: 1.122 That is not a lot of ML service time. One year is the absolute maximum I would trade Gamel for in terms of service time. That is why I said someone like Andrew Miller someone with a lot of talent and potential but hasn't hit it yet. I wouldn't go after Miller because of his injury problems Miller is a lot like Parra though and looking over at fangraphs and looking at Andrew Miller's stats in both his minor league splits and his major league splits there just isn't enough data to say he is a below average pitcher. This year he has been anything but below average.

 

The maximum number of service time should be around 1 year and at least have the potential of an Andrew Miller like pitcher for Gamel. The only way the Brewers would trade Gamel is for someone like an Andrew Miller (low service time and a high upside) otherwise you have to keep Gamel. You can't be trading Gamel for someone like Cain or Sanchez.

[silversurferr]

Nope. Need the lefty bat.

[paul253]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but isnt that a little closed minded? Sure, we need a left handed bat, but we also need pitching. We can survive the next two seasons without the extra lefty bat because we'll still have Fielder and Braun, but without a significant improvement on the pitching staff this team is going nowhere, left handed bat or not. Plus, its easier to find bats via free agency then arms. Bobby Abreu is a free agent i believe and he is still posting an OBP over .400. Why not give him a shot in right field? Carl Crawford maybe? Coco Crisp? Not ideal options but good enough for a year. Taylor Green is a lefty and he'll be up soon.

[silversurferr]

Okay, I'll play; what kind of pitching will we get for Gamel? Nobody outstanding, just question mark, Andrew Miller types. Why trade Gamel when we can sign those guys as free agents, or trade Hardy and Hart. We can keep Gamel and sign the Abreu types. Green is a marginal prospect.

[Invader3K]

If people really want Abreu, didn't he sign relatively cheaply this last off-season? Couldn't the Brewers sign him to a similar contract (assuming he'd even want to come here)?

 

I'm not sure how useful Abreu would be to the Brewers, really, though. I think any extra money spent this winter needs to go to pitching.