Brewers claim Doug Davis on Waivers; 2-days to work out deal (Update 8/14: Deadline passed, no deal)

[brewmann04]

Doug i would do Dykstra instead since we have alot of postion players in the Minors than Fredrickson who has been wild but has potential and is a big LHP.

[jhart05]

I would expect the Brewers to sign Davis for next year.

 

I really doubt this is a "2009-only" pickup.

[TooLiveBrew]

He repeats what has already been reported that the Brewers are not confident that they will acquire Davis and the Diamondbacks are not inclined to move him. However he also adds: "A deal must be completed by 1 p.m. ET on Friday, according to a major-league source."

 

I'm a bit confused... aren't the two options

 

1) Brewers & D-Backs agree on a trade

2) Brewers get Davis without sending prospect(s)

 

... why is Rosenthal talking about this like the D-Backs can just pull Davis back?

[sheethead]

... why is Rosenthal talking about this like the D-Backs can just pull Davis back?

 

IIRC, that is the third option. Davis was on revokeable waivers (most common). If pulled back, they can be put on waivers again but that third option will not be available the second time.

[JoeHova]

They can just pull him back, these are revocable waivers.

[Baldkin]

Because they can just pull Davis back.

 

The same way the Blue Jays could've with Rios.

 

If the other way were the case, the team putting someone on waivers would have no leverage at all. The Brewers could say, "Here, we'll give you this baseball. No? Okay then, we'll take him for nothing."

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

There has been some speculation as to whose spot in the rotation that Davis would take, should we acquire him. I would like to see Looper go to the bullpen. I don't have the numbers, but he seems to do well the first time through the order. He just seems to run out of gas rather early. When he starts you need to have the entire bullpen available. I think that he would be quite successful in the 6th and 7th innings.

[Hate those Rodents]

Our team seems to win when Looper starts more than any other pitcher. Could be luck. I'd maybe lean that way. But I know we don't hit when Yovanni pitches and we do when Looper pitches, so we might as well ride it out with him this year. (Oh and I'm not saying pull Yovanni from the rotation obviously, just that I'd keep Looper in it).

[Fatter than Joey]

... why is Rosenthal talking about this like the D-Backs can just pull Davis back?

 

Trade waivers are revocable.

 

I think a lot of confusion about waivers is that there are multiple types of waivers, some revocable some not.

 

Trade Waivers -- These are in place to basically keep teams from majorly rearranging their rosters during the playoffs -- This gives leverage to teams over other teams. These are revocable. It's basically a tool to "keep people honest"

 

Outright Waivers -- These are really in place to give players some leverage over their career. If a team wants to send a player to the minors, but move them off the 40man, they have to be exposed to irrevocable outright waivers. This allows teams to pick up players that may be blocked, and allow some player movement. When the Brewers sent Turnbow down to AAA the last time, he was exposed to these waivers, no one claimed him, and he was allowed to pitch at Nash., but not be on the 40man.

 

Unconditional Release Waivers -- These waivers are what Bill Hall will be on, if he is not already. This is for players the team wants to cut ties with. Whether they are revocable or irrevocable is moot -- Of course a player is usually DFA'd first, and then if no one shows an interest in trading for him -- they are given their release.

 

Optional Waivers -- These are revocable as well -- These usually happen at the start of the season and are mostly a formality -- These are used if a player has an option, but they have been in MLB for 2-3+ straight seasons, when the Brewers sent Bush down last season he had to clear these.

[Never Outhustled]

Davis would replace Mike Burns in the rotation.

 

Doug i would do Dykstra instead since we have alot of postion players in the Minors than Fredrickson who has been wild but has potential and is a big LHP.

While the Brewers only have 1 starting pitching prospect in AA or AAA (Butler, and he coming off an injury), the team has as much or more pitching talent in R through A+ as anyone in baseball.

[jhart05]

"Our team seems to win when Looper starts more than any other pitcher."

 

 

Looper is 4th in the Majors (1st in the NL) in "Run Support per Innings" at 6.7.

 

That's runs scored while he is listed as the pitcher in the game.

 

Gallardo is near the bottom and last among the Brewers regular starters at 3.2.

[jlau20]

"Our team seems to win when Looper starts more than any other pitcher."

 

 

Looper is 4th in the Majors (1st in the NL) in "Run Support per Innings" at 6.7.

 

That's runs scored while he is listed as the pitcher in the game.

 

Gallardo is near the bottom and last among the Brewers regular starters at 3.2.

Can't that partially be attributed to who the team is facing in those games...for the most part (not all the time) Yo is going to be up against better pitchers than is Looper. I know it doesn't explain Looper being first in the NL in run support, but it does somewhat explain why he would have a decent amount more support than Yo.

[Invader3K]

Doesn't sound like anything is going to happen as far as a Davis to Milwaukee deal.

 

Not really that disappointing at this point in this season.

[Baldkin]

Can't that partially be attributed to who the team is facing in those games...for the most part (not all the time) Yo is going to be up against better pitchers than is Looper. I know it doesn't explain Looper being first in the NL in run support, but it does somewhat explain why he would have a decent amount more support than Yo.

That's pretty much only true the first week of the season. Beyond that, days off, injuries and skipped starts effect both #1's facing each other.

[kramnoj]

From http://milwaukee.brewers....s_mil&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil

 

Melvins is quoted ""Other than Cliff Lee, who else had made a difference?" Melvin asked. "We tried, but people know the value of pitching. They have the right to ask for your top guy. But is it right to give up a top guy for a [pitcher] who's going to make seven, eight, nine starts?"

 

As a GM, it sometimes works out that you ask for the moon and you get it. But Arizona is fairly gutsy to think that they could get anything close to a top guy for Davis on a waiver claim.

 

It confuses me that Arizona would trade Owings away to get Dunn and then not offer him arbitration, but we are now expected to believe that they will pay $2.6+M to pay Davis just to get Type B compensation. Maybe they see last year as a mistake and don't want to repeat it.

[endaround]

I think its more they want Davis back and are afraid that Milwaukee would be the one place that could sign him if he's traded.

[kramnoj]

I think its more they want Davis back and are afraid that Milwaukee would be the one place that could sign him if he's traded.

If that's the case, they should offer him an extension. That they haven't done so doesn't support this idea.

[endaround]

DHonks has said before they were negotiating with Davis.

[kramnoj]

Davis has said they aren't negotiating with Davis. From http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090812&content_id=6389918&vkey=news_mil&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil "As for whether the D-backs would sign him to a contract extension before the end of the season, Davis did not sound optimistic.

 

"I very much doubt it," he said.

[endaround]

The doesn't mean they aren't talking. My guess is Davis want 3 years and the DBacks are unlikely to give more than 2. So the DBacks believe Davis will sign since no one else will offer him 3 years once free agency roles around.

[kramnoj]

That still doesn't make any sense. Arizona keeping Davis for the rest of the season doesn't have any impact on their ability to sign him as a FA after the season. If they send him to the Brewers, they have the same chance to sign him as they do if kept him on the team. The only difference is that if they keep him, they get to offer him arbitration, and they only benefit from that if he doesn't sign with them. So the only reason to keep him is to pay millions for the right to offer arbitration in the hope that he turns it down so they get a comp pick.

[sheethead]

That still doesn't make any sense. Arizona keeping Davis for the rest of the season doesn't have any impact on their ability to sign him as a FA after the season. If they send him to the Brewers, they have the same chance to sign him as they do if kept him on the team. The only difference is that if they keep him, they get to offer him arbitration, and they only benefit from that if he doesn't sign with them. So the only reason to keep him is to pay millions for the right to offer arbitration in the hope that he turns it down so they get a comp pick.

Spot on IMO. I don't see the upside to Zona keeping him right now. I actually see a bit of a downside to them keeping him. The only reason I think it would be good for the Brewers would be to have an actual starting pitcher in the 4 or 5 spot. Then they only need one more to have an actual rotation for the first time since June.

[Never Outhustled]

I can understand Arizona wanting to keep Davis because of the potential of a compensatory pick, but at the same time if they could save money and get an OK prospect, they should do it. One of the things I give Melvin big credit for is trading away the right prospects. The team needs to fiind a prospect the Arizona might like that the Brewers don't really believe in. Those are usually guys having a good year, but aren't really projectable. I hope this gets done, I don't want to see Mike Burns tomorrow.

[endaround]

That still doesn't make any sense. Arizona keeping Davis for the rest of the season doesn't have any impact on their ability to sign him as a FA after the season. If they send him to the Brewers, they have the same chance to sign him as they do if kept him on the team. The only difference is that if they keep him, they get to offer him arbitration, and they only benefit from that if he doesn't sign with them. So the only reason to keep him is to pay millions for the right to offer arbitration in the hope that he turns it down so they get a comp pick.

 

Except Milwaukee then has a window to sign Davis to extension before the open FA period begins. Now I'm not saying tis worth $2.4m to keep a guy like Davis around so he doesn't sign somewhere else but it makes more sense than paying $2.4m for a supplemental pick.

[kramnoj]

Arizona has that window now, and Davis hasn't been impressed with what they are offering. Really, if Arizona wants to have Davis next season, their best option is to send him to Milwaukee for whatever they can get. As Davis is packing up, bring him in and tell him, don't sign with Milwaukee before FA, we want you back next season and would like to have a fair shot of bringing you back to where your family has set up a life.

 

It's doubtful that Milwaukee would be able to blow Davis away so much that he would sign before looking at what FA can bring him. Then Milwaukee offers arb, Davis rejects it and can sign back with Arizona, Milwaukee gets a comp pick, and Arizona has saved millions while possibly getting some roster filler. The solution makes so much sense for everybody involved.